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Max Illingworth
01-07-2020, 07:22 AM
What are your thoughts on this new event, taking the Olympiad online?

https://fide.com/news/608 has the details.

Desmond
01-07-2020, 11:39 AM
What are your thoughts on this new event, taking the Olympiad online?

https://fide.com/news/608 has the details.

I think it's a fine event but why call it an olympiad? It scarcely seems to resemble an olympiad at all.

Kevin Bonham
01-07-2020, 12:05 PM
More notice would have been nice. I'll try to make sure the right people know in the hope that applications can be called for for an Australian team in time.

MichaelBaron
01-07-2020, 02:43 PM
Rapid, Armageddon ...its a nice event...just another online event but not the Olympiad

b.nancarrow
01-07-2020, 10:08 PM
Rapid, Armageddon ...its a nice event...just another online event but not the Olympiad

Call it the Onlinepiad

Garvinator
01-07-2020, 10:43 PM
Whilst some might see some positives from this idea, I am finding it difficult to ignore some of the negatives, which I think outweigh the positives.

1) Those in China have to play behind the Great Firewall of China, which has already caused issues for Ding Liren. How will this be sorted out when playing across 8 boards (4 open, 4 female) each and every round without drop outs?

2) And this is the biggest issue of all. In my attempts to play in online events in the past, the tournaments are always held at about 3pm GMT or later. This means play begins at 1am EST.

Those countries that are able to play in the middle of the day will have a massive advantage over those countries that are forced to play at odd hours of the day ie games starting at 12am or later, or for those in the Americas, most likely at 4am or so.

How will this issue be overcome?

Kevin Bonham
01-07-2020, 10:50 PM
I'm currently playing in the chess.com teams league and in that one start times are negotiated between the captains.

Garvinator
02-07-2020, 08:44 AM
I'm currently playing in the chess.com teams league and in that one start times are negotiated between the captains.
That might work for the event you are playing in, but for the Olympiad, which involves the strongest players from each country, how do you negotiate a satisfactory time between players who are spread all over the world?

Australia Open Team could be in that position:

Anton could be overseas, Temur in Perth, and the rest somewhere in Australia.

And for PNG, it would potentially be even worse with their players spread across the world.

A lot of countries could be that position. This decision really seems like a Europe focused decision.

MichaelBaron
02-07-2020, 11:31 AM
. This decision really seems like a Europe focused decision.

I do not think it is really a Europe-focused decision - more like a decision to make it look like there is an event held for all of the FIDE members as well as an attempt to promote own online platform (potentially)

Desmond
02-07-2020, 12:45 PM
That might work for the event you are playing in, but for the Olympiad, which involves the strongest players from each country, how do you negotiate a satisfactory time between players who are spread all over the world?

Australia Open Team could be in that position:

Anton could be overseas, Temur in Perth, and the rest somewhere in Australia.

And for PNG, it would potentially be even worse with their players spread across the world.

A lot of countries could be that position. This decision really seems like a Europe focused decision.

Shouldn't be too hard for the captains to manage though. They're allowed 6 reserves, so any abroad player with really nasty time slots could be subbed out.

Kevin Bonham
02-07-2020, 05:18 PM
So this is in the regulations:


3. 5. Each pool is played within three days, three rounds per day. The exact dates and times for each pool
tournament in each DIVISION are announced two days prior to the beginning, teams’time zones are taken into
consideration

Doesn't say how or what to do if there is a crazy mix of time zones in a pool (the divisions are seeding and performance based but then in pools; it's not clear whether the lower level pools might be geographic but it would be hard for such a structure to be guaranteed further up.)

Overall the structure is remarkably complex.

Garvinator
02-07-2020, 09:40 PM
So this is in the regulations:



Doesn't say how or what to do if there is a crazy mix of time zones in a pool (the divisions are seeding and performance based but then in pools; it's not clear whether the lower level pools might be geographic but it would be hard for such a structure to be guaranteed further up.)

Overall the structure is remarkably complex.

I am wondering how are the pairings going to be done for the first stage? And if I understand your post correctly, there will be a second stage organised (three matches again) between what I would assume is the winners of the first stage groups and other groups organised for those that finished second, third etc in the first round.

If that is not the format, feel free to correct my information.

If my belief of the format is correct, I really could see the final group being between something like China, USA, Russia and Armenia. Good luck finding mutually acceptable times for the games except Russia v Armenia. And those countries listed by me are just examples. It is possible with some thought to find even worse groups for trying to find a group that works well, especially as I have previously mentioned, not all the players representing a country live in the Country they represent.

Vlad
02-07-2020, 10:52 PM
That might work for the event you are playing in, but for the Olympiad, which involves the strongest players from each country, how do you negotiate a satisfactory time between players who are spread all over the world?


A couple years ago Anton participated in all stars event in the pro chess league. As most stars were from Europe and the USA, the starting time for Anton was something like 3 am. So when he beat Georg Meier in the last round and Georg started complaining about unfair timing I thought that was the best prize Anton could possibly get. :lol:

Australia will play against Russia again this Saturday and one of our players will be playing from London.

Kevin Bonham
02-07-2020, 11:11 PM
I am wondering how are the pairings going to be done for the first stage? And if I understand your post correctly, there will be a second stage organised (three matches again) between what I would assume is the winners of the first stage groups and other groups organised for those that finished second, third etc in the first round.

Various teams are seeded through to numerous stages and a certain number from each stage qualify to the next stage. A common structure is 15 going through out of 50 of whom 35 were seeded and 15 came up from a lower group. If really interested I suggest reading the regulations available from the link at the top of the thread; I suggest having a few Panadols or similar handy when doing so. :)

Desmond
03-07-2020, 08:45 AM
A couple years ago Anton participated in all stars event in the pro chess league. As most stars were from Europe and the USA, the starting time for Anton was something like 3 am. So when he beat Georg Meier in the last round and Georg started complaining about unfair timing I thought that was the best prize Anton could possibly get. :lol:

Australia will play against Russia again this Saturday and one of our players will be playing from London.

Yes if you're trying to juggle all 3 global regions there is no good solution. (Which is why most of my ww calls are at 2am, asia being the 3rd region by revenue :doh:).
But any 2 should not be a big challenge. Even the worse case, 12 hour time difference, you could play at 8am/8pm - not too big a problem surely.

Garvinator
03-07-2020, 12:51 PM
But any 2 should not be a big challenge. Even the worse case, 12 hour time difference, you could play at 8am/8pm - not too big a problem surely.A couple of points on this.

1) 8am might seem ok, but I think it should be careful to note that not one otb tournament starts at 8am. That should give some idea that starting at 8am is not desirable. And, this is an important point. An agreed starting time of 8am for Australia would mean a 6am, or even 5am if DST is in effect, start for Temur, who is in Perth. 6am :whistle:

2) And what occurs if the teams can not come to an arrangement?

I was thinking about this last night in terms of match scheduling. How is the three days going to be defined? It is possible that some teams will end up with 3am start, 11pm start and then something like a 3pm start. That possibly means a spread of either two days jammed together, or four days if spread out.

Ian Rout
03-07-2020, 01:05 PM
Time zones are part of the territory in online chess, analogous to home ground advantage in other games. You can legislate to even it out, for instance the "home" team has choice of start time and the "away" team can choose whether to be White on odd or even boards, but playing globally and playing in your own time zone are fundamentally incompatible.

The answer to the question in post 1 is Not Applicable, because it isn't the Olympiad taken online. It's a rapid event and it has restrictions on age and sex (though there is no senior board, which might have been a logical extension). That doesn't stop it being a potentially interesting competition, although the rate of play will be too quick for insightful commentary or suspense building. But if FIDE keeps Kirsanesquely calling things Olympiads it will devalue the term pretty quickly; already they've used up the obvious name for a real Olympiad online.

But I think the real problem is official bodies lending their name to online events. Presumably teams are not going to be required to assemble at a single venue under the supervision of an arbiter, and I think it's preferable for events run under Wild West conditions to be left to cowboys. There's a good chance that the event will be swamped by discussion of cheating allegations, or decided by the verdict of a black box, as has been seen in other cases. Overall I can see the event being of interest, but not entirely for the chess.

Desmond
03-07-2020, 02:03 PM
A couple of points on this.

1) 8am might seem ok, but I think it should be careful to note that not one otb tournament starts at 8am. That should give some idea that starting at 8am is not desirable. You're not taking account for preparation and travel time. 8am might be hard to get people to a tournament hall. Playing from home you just have to roll out of bed. Or play in bed, even.

MichaelBaron
07-07-2020, 09:04 PM
So will Australia be fielding its strongest team?

Vlad
07-07-2020, 09:24 PM
I suppose it depends on whom you ask.

Ian Rout
08-07-2020, 11:42 AM
It also depends how you define "strongest". For instance if Firouzja is one of your two best players do you play him in the top two, or put him on a junior board to get an additional strong GM into the team? And the strongest team for an online rapid may not be the strongest team under the conditions of a real Olympiad.

MichaelBaron
08-07-2020, 01:05 PM
It also depends how you define "strongest". For instance if Firouzja is one of your two best players do you play him in the top two, or put him on a junior board to get an additional strong GM into the team? And the strongest team for an online rapid may not be the strongest team under the conditions of a real Olympiad.

Ok let me clarify, given that the ''status'' of the Olympiad is not very clear (is it just another team even or is it as serious as the OTB Olympiads) , will the top players be applying to play for their respective national teams?

ER
08-07-2020, 02:02 PM
in regards to the real GM Firouzja (I use the term "real Firouzja" since I suspect the reference to his name by I.R. was meant as "any Firouzja" in "any team")
1) we 're not sure which team he would decide to play.
2) taking under consideration his general rather arrogant attitude, I very much doubt that he would be glad to play as a junior in any line up!

Vlad
08-07-2020, 02:04 PM
Ok let me clarify, given that the ''status'' of the Olympiad is not very clear (is it just another team even or is it as serious as the OTB Olympiads) , will the top players be applying to play for their respective national teams?

The top two guns will apply. I presume that is what you are after.

And yes, one of them will have to be the "cleaner" - cleaning the junior board.

Desmond
08-07-2020, 02:42 PM
Just wondering about the team composition, round to round.


Each team will consist of six players, in a mixed format with a minimum of three female players and two junior players. Specifically, each team must include:

- at least 1 player U-20 (born in 2000 or later)
- at least 2 women
- at least 1 girl U-20 (born in 2000 or later)

The teams may have up to six reserves, plus a team captain.

Does it mean the team must include someone from each category playing in each round? In that case you'd probably want at least 2 U20, 4 women etc.

Ian Rout
08-07-2020, 04:00 PM
Does it mean the team must include someone from each category playing in each round?

Evidently Yes. In the detailed regulations, rule 2.4 prescribes that your women play on Boards 3 and 4, your junior on Board 5 and your girl on Board 6. However unless I'm missing it there doesn't seem to be a rule about moving players between boards (so long as they are eligible).



in regards to the real GM Firouzja (I use the term "real Firouzja" since I suspect the reference to his name by I.R. was meant as "any Firouzja" in "any team")
1) we 're not sure which team he would decide to play.
2) taking under consideration his general rather arrogant attitude, I very much doubt that he would be glad to play as a junior in any line up!I was using Firouzja as a hypothetical - there are three non-open categories, one a sub-category of the two others, so many players are potentially eligible under more than one heading.

ER
08-07-2020, 04:24 PM
I was using Firouzja as a hypothetical -

As I posted above


(I use the term "real Firouzja" since I suspect the reference to his name by I.R. was meant as "any Firouzja" in "any team")

Ian Rout
08-07-2020, 05:14 PM
As I posted above

Yes, just confirming (and emphasising that it's a not a special case).

ER
08-07-2020, 06:52 PM
Yes, just confirming (and emphasising that it's a not a special case).

thanks!

MichaelBaron
19-07-2020, 09:10 AM
http://chess-results.com/tnr530706.aspx?lan=11

Australia is in the 2nd divison

ER
19-07-2020, 11:38 AM
Now can someone enlighten me please? we have the following teams playing Division 1

4302

whereas in Division 2 we have ...

4303

So it's not really the rating average that decides classification, neither the time zone of participating countries.
Then what's the criteria?

ER
19-07-2020, 11:59 AM
To answer Questions like the above, only take experienced people who have a profound knowledge of chess administration in international affairs.
I received a complete response and I do thank very much for the thorough analysis included as given by the well respected official.
Not sure if OK to post the response and the official involved here, so I wait for approval.
Have to go out for a while! cheers

Bill Gletsos
19-07-2020, 12:01 PM
Now can someone enlighten me please? we have the following teams playing Division 1

4302

whereas in Division 2 we have ...

4303

So it's not really the rating average that decides classification, neither the time zone of participating countries.
Then what's the criteria?The Top division is as follows:
Total 40 teams (5 seeded + 20 Continental spots + 15 qualified from Division 2).

So the 4 you listed are part of the 20 Continental spots.

MichaelBaron
19-07-2020, 12:04 PM
Rapid reatings are bing used - it explains Australia's relatively low seeding as we have Smirnov sitting on 2367 and Lim on 1400 so yes, we are very underrated

ER
19-07-2020, 12:13 PM
Thanks Bill! makes sense. This part

To answer Questions like the above, only takes experienced people who have a profound knowledge of chess administration
includes you of course!

ER
19-07-2020, 12:14 PM
Approval given so I publish it in full.

Shaun Press
Elliott Renzies To answer your questions ... Ratings are FIDE Rapid first, and the FIDE Standard if no FIDE Rapid. There are some very strong GM's with terrible Rapid ratings, but this is what is being used!
As for seeding, each Continent nominates 5 teams for the A division, which means that they're some lowly rated teams at the top. Otherwise it was the standings based on both the Open and Women's teams scores at the last Olympiad.

Full regulations are at https://www.fide.com/news/608

Ian Rout
19-07-2020, 12:49 PM
+ 15 qualified from Division 2).

Does this mean promotion and relegation for the next one?

Bill Gletsos
19-07-2020, 01:33 PM
Does this mean promotion and relegation for the next one?The divisions are being played sequentially from bottom to top.
Therefore if Australia finishes in the top 15 of Division 2 they will play in the Top Division in this event.

Ian Rout
19-07-2020, 01:47 PM
The divisions are being played sequentially from bottom to top.
Therefore if Australia finishes in the top 15 of Division 2 they will play in the Top Division in this event.

Thanks. A good way to do it considering the uncertainty of the ratings.

Vlad
19-07-2020, 06:15 PM
I suppose a hard question for FIDE could be as follows. Why different criteria are being used at different levels?

To me more fair would be one of the following options. 1) All teams are ranked according to tiebreak 1. In this case countries like Hungary will be selected in the top division. 2) Continue selecting best teams from different subdivisions. As Australia is the top team in Oceania, Australia should be selected as one of five Asian representatives.

Bill Gletsos
19-07-2020, 06:57 PM
The divisions are being played sequentially from bottom to top.
Therefore if Australia finishes in the top 15 of Division 2 they will play in the Top Division in this event.I should have been a clearer when I said Australia needs to be in the top 15.
Division 2 currently has 35 teams and will be joined by 15 teams form Division 3.
Those 50 teams will be split into 5 pools of 10 of approximately equal strength.
The top 3 teams from each of those 5 pools will join the current 25 teams in the Top Division.

Desmond
19-07-2020, 07:00 PM
Will this event be FIDE Rapid rated? (I presume not).

MichaelBaron
31-07-2020, 03:26 PM
Any Updates on Australia/Other teams in our group results/playing dates?

Ian Rout
31-07-2020, 04:16 PM
According to the official site https://olymp.fide.com/ Division 2 is on Aug 14-16.

MichaelBaron
01-08-2020, 12:25 PM
According to the official site https://olymp.fide.com/ Division 2 is on Aug 14-16.

Thx, Ian
I think there will be plenty of interesting matches.

Ian Rout
05-08-2020, 11:41 AM
Although Australia don't play for another ten days, some Australian members will probably know some of the NZ players who are in action this weekend in Pool A of Division 3. Also Raymond Song is top board for Chinese Taipei in Pool B after they qualified from last weekend's section.

ER
05-08-2020, 04:35 PM
Happens in the best houses too!

4384

Source: FIDE webpage
https://www.fide.com/news/674

Kevin Bonham
05-08-2020, 05:20 PM
Looks like this hasn't affected qualification as Hong Kong and Nicaragua still qualify to stage 3 even with the adjusted results while the others were already eliminated.

ER
05-08-2020, 07:22 PM
yep which actually raises questions why did they do it in the first place!

MichaelBaron
07-08-2020, 01:04 PM
yep which actually raises questions why did they do it in the first place!

This is one of the core problems with online cheating. In some cases...it is some crazy ''ambitions'' that motivate the cheaters rather than any feasible benefits.

Ian Rout
07-08-2020, 01:34 PM
We don't know that the allegation is computer cheating, though that's the explanation that first comes to mind, or how it was decided. Presumably the players have a right of appeal as it's a decision by FIDE, not the black box.

A curious feature is that for three of the teams you can work out who was pinged as there is a player with a string of zeroes; a couple of others also score zero but from only one or two games. However in the case of Brunei there are two players with straight losses but in both cases the player was benched or unavailable after the first day. So it would seem that if whoever was booked was playing too well it was based on a sample of three games.

Patrick Byrom
07-08-2020, 04:17 PM
We don't know that the allegation is computer cheating, though that's the explanation that first comes to mind, or how it was decided. Presumably the players have a right of appeal as it's a decision by FIDE, not the black box. ... This Shaun Press post (http://chessexpress.blogspot.com/2020/07/when-world-champions-walked-among-us.html) might give some insight into the process.

MichaelBaron
08-08-2020, 12:12 PM
http://chess-news.ru/node/27247

Listening to recording of the Chess-news Round Table on how chess will be returning back to normal from the Pandemics (sorry its in Russian).
When asked about the Online Olympiad Sosonko said that ''he has been looking at the games of the lower groups of the Olympiad and he thinks that if he teaches chess to his Cat for a couple of hours...his Cat will play better than some of the teams''.

Ian Rout
08-08-2020, 02:04 PM
This Shaun Press post (http://chessexpress.blogspot.com/2020/07/when-world-champions-walked-among-us.html) might give some insight into the process.It sounds like Shaun is talking about being in the process of building a better mousetrap rather than claiming to have done so; most likely the decision was based on the Regan program. Shaun is one of the arbiters for the Olympiad so presumably won't be leaking anything at this stage.

I identified from the game file which of the Brunei players (above) was implicated, and on the longest game there is a pretty good match to Stockfish on a quick play-through. Not that the moves are necessarily so remarkable but I can understand how it would set the detector's antennae twitching.

ER
08-08-2020, 02:33 PM
It's really heart warming to see the Lebanese team doing so well under the horrible circumstances the country faces at the moment
In the preliminaries they advanced from base to Division 4 smashing the opposition

4395

then they continued their merry way advancing again to Division 3

4396

Their next schedule might not be so easy, but don't write them off, they will fight to the bitter end.

Throughout their chess history they haven't achieved much but they can never be underestimated either as a team or as individuals.

Brazil (then ELO average 2561) was beaten by Lebanon 1.5 - 2.5 during the Bled Olympiad in 2002.

In Lebanon vs USSR (Dubai Olympiad 1986) Muneer Tawbeh had Vaganian on the ropes. In the adjournment the mighty Soviets including the two Ks who were rested for that match were running up and down
like headless chooks to find some saving variations for their mate. As for Tawbeh he played backgammon with the Greeks in the analysis room annoying other players with their noise and wondering what the fuss was all about.

Ian Rout
09-08-2020, 12:52 PM
Although Australia don't play for another ten days, some Australian members will probably know some of the NZ players who are in action this weekend in Pool A of Division 3. Also Raymond Song is top board for Chinese Taipei in Pool B after they qualified from last weekend's section.
Looks like NZ are out of the running at the two-thirds mark, four points away from the qualifying spots and still to play leaders Singapore. They have won two matches, against Hong Kong (without their suspended player) and Japan.

MichaelBaron
09-08-2020, 02:26 PM
It's really heart warming to see the Lebanese team doing so well under the horrible circumstances the country faces at the moment
In the preliminaries they advanced from base to Division 4 smashing the opposition

4395

then they continued their merry way advancing again to Division 3

4396

Their next schedule might not be so easy, but don't write them off, they will fight to the bitter end.

Throughout their chess history they haven't achieved much but they can never be underestimated either as a team or as individuals.

Brazil (then ELO average 2561) was beaten by Lebanon 1.5 - 2.5 during the Bled Olympiad in 2002.

In Lebanon vs USSR (Dubai Olympiad 1986) Muneer Tawbeh had Vaganian on the ropes. In the adjournment the mighty Soviets including the two Ks who were rested for that match were running up and down
like headless chooks to find some saving variations for their mate. As for Tawbeh he played backgammon with the Greeks in the analysis room annoying other players with their noise and wondering what the fuss was all about.

Curiously, Board 4 in that match against USSR was Aboutchayya...is it the same player that plays in NSW now?

MichaelBaron
10-08-2020, 11:01 PM
Taking another look at our group: Hopefully we can qualify along likes of Germany and Belarus. We are pretty weak on Girls and Junior boards...but looking fine on Men's/womens

Vlad
10-08-2020, 11:30 PM
You must have eaten some mushrooms...

ER
11-08-2020, 01:30 AM
Here's the whole group:

4402

antichrist
11-08-2020, 06:49 AM
You must have eaten some mushrooms...

May I suggest Michael stick to the non chess threads/not analyze chess games...I think Anton and other grandmaster level chess players who are playing Olympiad 2020 can live without his low-level analysis .

Vlad
11-08-2020, 09:48 AM
Unfortunately, the draw is not very good for Australia; we are in the group of death. In every other pool there are only 3 strong teams. In pool A there are 5!

Germany, Belarus and Bulgaria are clearly stronger, while Indonesia is comparable in strength. Australia will need a lot of luck to qualify from this group.

Vlad
11-08-2020, 10:21 AM
In terms of our strengths, Michael forgot/did not pay attention that our junior board is occupied by the current Australian open champion. It is very likely that we score at least 1 point (from 2 games) for our under 20 boards. So it is mostly for "oldies" to decide who will win in each match.

MichaelBaron
11-08-2020, 11:56 AM
In terms of our strengths, Michael forgot/did not pay attention that our junior board is occupied by the current Australian open champion. It is very likely that we score at least 1 point (from 2 games) for our under 20 boards. So it is mostly for "oldies" to decide who will win in each match.

Girls board? How strong are we? RE Junior board...good point! With the Olympiad we usually look at all boards so I forgot that there are ''reserves'' listed as well.
Re senior boards. I think the likes of Anton and James can upset many higher rated players.

Ian Rout
11-08-2020, 04:25 PM
Do we know what time on Friday (or Saturday?) play starts? I can't see it anywhere.

MichaelBaron
11-08-2020, 04:27 PM
Do we know what time on Friday (or Saturday?) play starts? I can't see it anywhere.

I think someone posted on FB its going to be night time. From memory, Sat starts at 7pm but i could be wrong.

ER
11-08-2020, 05:25 PM
Do we know what time on Friday (or Saturday?) play starts? I can't see it anywhere.

From FB yesterday. Cheers!

4403

Ian Rout
11-08-2020, 07:55 PM
Thanks for above info - looks like good viewing times, especially for the key Sunday games.

Vlad
11-08-2020, 08:06 PM
There is an important question the Australian team captain wants to clarify. Is the order of players fixed? If Anton is resting, while Max and Moulthun are playing, does the order has to be such that Max is on board 1?

ER
11-08-2020, 08:50 PM
There is an important question the Australian team captain wants to clarify. Is the order of players fixed? If Anton is resting, while Max and Moulthun are playing, does the order has to be such that Max is on board 1?

Hi Vlad, the answer to your question is in

4404

Each team may have up to six reserves: 2 players in each of categories A and B and 1 player in each of categories C
and D according to Article 2.4.
2. 6. Each team captain decides on his/her team composition for each match In case of a substitution in category(-es)
A or/and B, the remaining main player(s) play(s) on board 1 and/or 3, the reserve player(s) go(es) to board 2 and/or 4
respectively. If both main players are substituted in category(-es) A or/and B, then reserve 1 in each category takes the
higher board (1 or/and 3)..
2. 7. During stage 1, the compositions for each of three matches of a daily session should be announced not later than
30 minutes before the beginning of the first match.
During stage 2, the compositions for each match should be announced not later than 30 minutes before the beginning
of the relevant match

ER
11-08-2020, 09:32 PM
Thanks for above info - looks like good viewing times, especially for the key Sunday games.

Yes, finally we have an international tournament played in a convenient time for us!
I also heard (from a not so reliable source) that we might have some live coverage from FIDE's website!

Vlad
11-08-2020, 10:32 PM
Thanks. What does 2.7. say? What is the stage 1 and stage 2? So if somebody does not play on Friday, this has to be announced before the first round?

ER
11-08-2020, 11:12 PM
Thanks. What does 2.7. say? What is the stage 1 and stage 2? So if somebody does not play on Friday, this has to be announced before the first round?

Hi again Vlad, ok I only provided answers to the relevant question referring to the order of players.
Now, according to the regulations again, Stage 1. refers to division matches, whereas Stage 2. refers to play-offs.
As such I assume that it would be sufficient time to declare compositions of teams involved in the play-offs process!
This, however, is only an assumption of mine. I will try to find a more thorough interpretation of the particular rule! Cheers!

Zelgiusfan5000
14-08-2020, 10:47 AM
If anyone is interested here’s the schedule & pairings for the online Olympiad
http://chess-results.com/tnr532151.aspx?lan=11&art=2&flag=30

Vlad
14-08-2020, 11:05 AM
Australia is officially announced to be an underdog in division A, not even mentioned in the official preview. The best position to be in - nobody expects much from you, things can only get better.:)

https://olymp.fide.com/news/tpost/kgx50tbgyj-fide-olympiad-division-2-preview

ER
14-08-2020, 11:36 AM
If anyone is interested here’s the schedule & pairings for the online Olympiad
http://chess-results.com/tnr532151.aspx?lan=11&art=2&flag=30

thanks, Zelgiusfan5000 I am sure many people here would be very interested about it!

ER
14-08-2020, 11:36 AM
Australia is officially announced to be an underdog in division A, not even mentioned in the official preview. The best position to be in - nobody expects much from you, things can only get better.:)

https://olymp.fide.com/news/tpost/kgx50tbgyj-fide-olympiad-division-2-preview

that's very good news Vlad thanks! :)

Vlad
14-08-2020, 12:06 PM
ACF did a fantastic job in selecting the team for the online Olympiad. Everybody is in high spirits and excited about representing Australia. Hopefully many Australians support their team by watching their performance.:clap:

There are 3 matches today. The most critical is the third match against Bulgaria (starts at 8 pm Sydney time). They dominate us on all woman's boards. In the man's part of the team, only board 1 looks stronger for Australia, the other two boards are similar in strength. We are clear underdogs in this match.

ER
14-08-2020, 12:19 PM
kudos to the selectors then!!!
I think the main mental impetus of both our boys and girls should be never to underestimate any opponent regardless how weak they seemingly are and fight for the win points.
Unnecessary half points here and there could decide placings.
GO AUSTRALIA!!!

MichaelBaron
14-08-2020, 12:40 PM
Chess-results not showing board-pairings. I presume they are still not available.

ER
14-08-2020, 01:14 PM
Chess-results not showing board-pairings. I presume they are still not available.

Hey Michael check paragraph 2.7 in post #70

Vlad
14-08-2020, 02:33 PM
kudos to the selectors then!!!
Unnecessary half points here and there could decide placings.
GO AUSTRALIA!!!
According to Postovsky, the most important is to save people!

ER
14-08-2020, 03:56 PM
According to Postovsky, the most important is to save people!

Ok then we might not be using live ammunition but unlike Aleksey Borisovich we 're not going to sign any peace treaties either! :D

Vlad
14-08-2020, 06:35 PM
The opponent of Max did not show up, Anton, Timur and Lim finished their games. 4:0 so far.

Kevin Bonham
14-08-2020, 06:40 PM
Trying to watch AUS games online but it's a nightmare; games keep appearing and disappearing from the screen! At one stage I could briefly see them all.

Vlad
14-08-2020, 06:44 PM
Both other boards are winning, so it is 6:0. You can watch them directly on chess.com if you know the names of the players.

Kevin Bonham
14-08-2020, 06:45 PM
Ok we are 5-0 up and Ryjanova is completely winning, cool.

EDIT: And wins, Australia 6-0 Belgium. :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Kevin Bonham
14-08-2020, 07:18 PM
Cassanda Lim wins in 13 moves in the second match:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e3 O-O 5. Ne2 b6 6. a3 Bxc3+ 7. Nxc3 d5 8. Qf3 Bb7 9. Bd3 c5 10. O-O Qe7 11. Qh3 Nc6 12. cxd5 exd5 13. Nxd5 1-0

Kevin Bonham
14-08-2020, 07:43 PM
Australia 6-0 Kyrgyzstan as well. :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Scott Colliver
14-08-2020, 07:59 PM
If anyone is interested you can watch coverage of the games in the group at https://www.twitch.tv/chess with GM Roeland Pruijssers and GM Anna Muzychuk.

Kevin Bonham
14-08-2020, 08:45 PM
Bulgaria 4-2 Australia. Looked like being 3.5-2.5 but in time trouble Temur missed the win of a piece and instead allowed a perpetual. Highlight was Jilin drawing with Stefanova.

Vlad
14-08-2020, 09:17 PM
We are ranked number 3 at the moment. We just need to make sure that we do well in the next two days. Other teams are losing points too.

Vlad
14-08-2020, 09:36 PM
If anyone is interested you can watch coverage of the games in the group at https://www.twitch.tv/chess with GM Roeland Pruijssers and GM Anna Muzychuk.

Anton is giving an interview at the end of this video. One can see that he is quite upset by his result but he still holds himself pretty well.

ER
14-08-2020, 10:23 PM
he did quite well apart from being a star player he is also developing into a fine statesperson!
To be honest I am disappointed with Ana. Mispronouncing surnames like she did with Temur and other players is understood, laughing stupidly about it is another.
Her own surname isn't the easiest to pronounce anyway. I am sure she wouldn't like people laughing about it.
Another unfortunate moment was when she described a player as "an old lady who likes playing chess"!
Learn some manners lady!

Scott Colliver
15-08-2020, 03:15 PM
So we play Bangladesh, Turkmenistan and the Phillipines today with the hardest match being against the Phillipines. Still we could easily win all three matches.

Kevin Bonham
15-08-2020, 06:43 PM
Australia 4-2 Bangladesh. Turnarounds in a few games in time trouble but more or less cancelled out.

Kevin Bonham
15-08-2020, 06:55 PM
Belarus loses to Philippines.

Kevin Bonham
15-08-2020, 07:57 PM
Result showing as 4-2 Australia vs Turkmenistan though no idea what happened with Giang's game showing as drawn in a lost position.

Epic draw in Julia's game - she was lost but opponent blundered with 56...b2 to which 57.g4! was a very nice reply. In the end she even got to miss 113.Re4+ winning.

Ryjanova, Julia (AUS) - Ovezdurdiyeva, Jemal (TKM)

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.g3 d6 5.Bg2 0-0 6.0-0 Nc6 7.Nc3 e5 8.dxe5 dxe5 9.Bg5 Qe8 10.Rc1 h6 11.Be3 Qd8 12.h3 Be6 13.Qa4 Qe7 14.Rfd1 Rfd8 15.a3 Qe8 16.Nd2 Nd4 17.Qxe8+ Nxe8 18.b4 Rab8 19.Kf1 Nd6 20.Bxd4 exd4 21.Nce4 b6 22.Nxd6 Rxd6 23.Ne4 Rdd8 24.c5 f5 25.Nd2 d3 26.exd3 Rxd3 27.Nf3 Rxa3 28.cxb6 cxb6 29.Nd4 Bxd4 30.Rxd4 Re8 31.Kg1 Kf7 32.Rc7+ Re7 33.Rc6 Ra1+ 34.Kh2 Ra2 35.Kg1 Kg7 36.Rcd6 Bf7 37.Rd2 Rxd2 38.Rxd2 Kf6 39.Rd6+ Be6 40.Bf1 Rc7 41.Kg2 Ke5 42.Rd8 Bd5+ 43.Kh2 Be4 44.Bg2 Rc4 45.Rd7 a6 46.Re7+ Kf6 47.Ra7 Rxb4 48.Rxa6 Rb2 49.Bxe4 fxe4 50.Kg1 Ke5 51.Ra8 b5 52.Rb8 b4 53.Kf1 b3 54.Rb4 Kd5 55.Rb6 Rb1+ 56.Kg2 b2 57.g4 Ke5 58.Rb8 Kf4 59.Rf8+ Kg5 60.Rb8 Kf4 61.Rf8+ Ke5 62.Rb8 Kd4 63.Rd8+ Kc3 64.Rc8+ Kd3 65.Rb8 Kd2 66.Rb6 Ke1 67.Rb4 Kd2 68.Rb6 h5 69.gxh5 gxh5 70.Rb8 Ke2 71.Rb3 Kd1 72.Rb8 Kd2 73.Rb7 Kd3 74.Rb8 Kd4 75.Rd8+ Ke5 76.Rb8 Kd5 77.Rd8+ Kc5 78.Rb8 Kd6 79.Rb3 Kc6 80.Rb8 Kc7 81.Rb3 Kd6 82.Rb8 Ke5 83.Re8+ Kf4 84.Rf8+ Kg5 85.Rb8 Kh4 86.Rb4 Kg5 87.Rb5+ Kf6 88.Rb8 h4 89.Rb5 Ke6 90.Rb8 Kd5 91.Rd8+ Kc5 92.Rc8+ Kd4 93.Rb8 Kd3 94.Rb7 Kc3 95.Rc7+ Kd2 96.Rb7 Ke1 97.Rb4 Kd1 98.Rb8 Kd2 99.Rb7 Ke2 100.Rb3 Kd2 101.Rb8 Kd3 102.Rb7 Kd2 103.Rb8 Ke2 104.Rb3 Rd1 105.Rxb2+ Rd2 106.Rb3 Ke1 107.Rb1+ Rd1 108.Rb4 e3 109.fxe3 Ke2 110.e4 Rd7 111.e5 Rg7+ 112.Rg4 Re7 113.Rg5 Ke3 114.Rh5 Rg7+ 115.Kh2 Kf4 116.Rxh4+ Kxe5 117.Rg4 Rxg4 118.hxg4 Kf4 119.Kh3 Kg5 120.Kg3 Kg6 121.Kf4 Kf6 122.g5+ Kg6 123.Kg4 Kg7 124.Kf5 Kf7 125.g6+ Kg7 126.Kg5 Kg8 127.Kh6 Kh8 128.g7+ Kg8 129.Kg6 1/2-1/2

Kevin Bonham
15-08-2020, 08:51 PM
Australia 4-2 Philippines.

We are still third but have a tough run home with Germany, Indonesia and Belarus to play. The Indonesia match is especially important.

Kevin Bonham
15-08-2020, 09:09 PM
Belarus are eliminated now; they have lost 4 of their matches 2.5-3.5.

MichaelBaron
15-08-2020, 10:46 PM
Belarus are eliminated now; they have lost 4 of their matches 2.5-3.5.

I can only imagine what's on the Belorussian players' minds right now...surprised they can even plan chess...
Also there have been constant problems with the Internet in Belarus getting disconnected every now and then due to the political turmoil.

Kevin Bonham
16-08-2020, 12:12 PM
In order today: Indonesia, Germany then Belarus.

Scott Colliver
16-08-2020, 01:28 PM
Indonesia is going to be tough as they are going to be favourite on all three female boards. Temur will be a large favourite to win his game, Max also favoured on board 2. That leaves Smirnov against Megaranto on board 1 which might be a tough game but at least Smirnov will be white.

Ian Rout
16-08-2020, 01:52 PM
Indonesia is going to be tough as they are going to be favourite on all three female boards. Temur will be a large favourite to win his game, Max also favoured on board 2. That leaves Smirnov against Megaranto on board 1 which might be a tough game but at least Smirnov will be white.On the other hand, Australia has draw odds - 3-3 is likely to be inadequate for Indonesia.

Just a thought on that subject - are players allowed to see the scores or positions in other games during play, or get advice* from the captain, as they would in live chess? (* not about moves, of course)

ER
16-08-2020, 01:52 PM
I have blind faith in General Leonid Sandler and his troops.
I predict a win of Oz vs the enemy 4-2 or 3.5 - 2.5
GO AUSTRALIA YOU BLOODY BEAUTY!

Vlad
16-08-2020, 02:09 PM
Indonesia is going to be tough as they are going to be favourite on all three female boards. Temur will be a large favourite to win his game, Max also favoured on board 2. That leaves Smirnov against Megaranto on board 1 which might be a tough game but at least Smirnov will be white.

I do not think Max (if selected to play) is the favourite. He is likely to play against the kid who is the strongest player in their team. This match will be as hard as against Bolgaria.

Vlad
16-08-2020, 02:36 PM
Just a thought on that subject - are players allowed to see the scores or positions in other games during play, or get advice* from the captain, as they would in live chess? (* not about moves, of course)

Players are allowed to see the positions of other games but practically very few do as this could be quite destructive. There is no communication with the captain during the match but the captain can see the screens and live images of all players.

Scott Colliver
16-08-2020, 02:45 PM
I do not think Max (if selected to play) is the favourite. He is likely to play against the kid who is the strongest player in their team. This match will be as hard as against Bolgaria.

Well that makes it even harder

Andy009
16-08-2020, 06:42 PM
Max was unlucky to lose a tough game. Indonesia are leading the match. Hopefully Australia will win the next 2 matches

Kevin Bonham
16-08-2020, 06:47 PM
Indonesia 5-1 Australia. We fall behind them on tiebreak. They have Bulgaria then Bangladesh to play, we have Germany then Belarus. They will presumably beat Bangladesh so we will need 2 points and better game results.

Kevin Bonham
16-08-2020, 07:51 PM
Australia 3-3 Germany! Awesome!

Now it is us vs Belarus and Indonesia vs Bangladesh.

If we beat Belarus we are through.

If we draw with Belarus and Indonesia don't win we are through.

If we lose and Indonesia lose we are through.

If we draw and Indonesia win, or we lose and Indonesia draw, we need to score at worst 1 game point less than Indonesia.

If we lose and Indonesia win we are out.

ER
16-08-2020, 07:57 PM
permission to have your (credited) analysis posted in other social media? Face book in this case?

Kevin Bonham
16-08-2020, 08:05 PM
permission to have your (credited) analysis posted in other social media? Face book in this case?

Of course!

Couple of cancelling endgame blunders but also Temur won this lost position:

1.Nf3 d5 2.d4 Nf6 3.c4 dxc4 4.e3 Be6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Ng5 Bg4 7.f3 Bc8 8.Bxc4 e6 9.a4 c5 10.d5 h6 11.Nge4 Nxd5 12.Nxd5 exd5 13.Qxd5 Qc7 14.Qh5 Nc6 15.f4 Qe7 16.0-0 g6 17.Qf3 Bg7 18.Nc3 Nb4 19.e4 0-0 20.f5 Nc2 21.f6 [21.Nd5 Qe5 22.f6 Nxa1 (22...Bh8 23.Bxh6 Re8 24.Ne7+ Rxe7 25.fxe7 Be6 26.Rad1 winning) 23.fxg7 Qxg7 24.b4 winning] 21...Qxf6 22.Qxf6 Bxf6 23.Rxf6 Kg7 24.Rf2 [24.Bxh6+! Kxh6 (24...Kxf6 25.Rf1+ Ke5 26.Bxf8 wins) 25.Rc1 Kg7 26.Rxf7+ Rxf7 27.Bxf7 Kxf7 28.Rxc2 and white is a pawn up] 24...Nxa1 25.b3 b5 26.axb5 axb5 27.Nxb5 Be6 28.Nc7 Bxc4 29.Bb2+ Kg8 30.Nxa8 Nxb3 31.Nb6 Be6 32.Nd5 Bxd5 33.exd5 Rd8 34.Re2 Nd4 35.Bxd4 cxd4 36.Re5 Kg7 37.Kf2 Kf6 38.Re4 Rxd5 39.g4 d3 40.Ke1 Re5 0-1

ER
16-08-2020, 08:08 PM
thanks! :)

Desmond
16-08-2020, 08:22 PM
Australia 3-3 Germany! Awesome!
Awesome indeed :clap:

Kevin Bonham
16-08-2020, 08:45 PM
So close - we needed to win against Belarus but lost 2.5-3.5.

Kevin Bonham
16-08-2020, 08:49 PM
Pet gripe with the commentary: rampant overuse of "you hate to see it". I think more than one of the male commentators have been doing this.

MichaelBaron
16-08-2020, 10:31 PM
All in all: Good effort by Auzzies! They tried hard and got close!

ER
17-08-2020, 01:47 PM
All in all: Good effort by Auzzies! They tried hard and got close!

Agreed - they did all they could and we are proud of them!

ER
17-08-2020, 02:00 PM
Morris should be playing for the team instead...if he would play in the critical matches - may be Australia would qualify.

I am sure James could have given them a good run for their money.
On the other hand other players like Bobby, Zong-Yuan, and Justin could have been valid candidates for an inclusion in the line - up! (*)
However, we never know inside stories such as condition of players, age restrictions, availability etc.
I am sure that the selectors and the captain did what they could to present the best possible line-up!
I remember that in the beginning we were all praising them.
I still praise them now!

(*) Apologies I haven't checked the ladies' ratings, form etc to refer to their claim for inclusion.

Kevin Bonham
17-08-2020, 02:29 PM
I am sure that the selectors and the captain did what they could to present the best possible line-up!

There were no selectors; because of the inadequate notice of the event given to the ACF by FIDE, invitations were based on ratings.

ER
17-08-2020, 02:46 PM
There were no selectors; because of the inadequate notice of the event given to the ACF by FIDE, invitations were based on ratings.

I based my previous in Vlad's


ACF did a fantastic job in selecting the team for the online Olympiad. Everybody is in high spirits and excited about representing Australia. Hopefully many Australians support their team by watching their performance.:clap:


With which i wholeheartedly agreed and still agree!

Ian Rout
17-08-2020, 04:05 PM
I am sure James could have given them a good run for their money.
On the other hand other players like Bobby, Zong-Yuan, and Justin could have been valid candidates for an inclusion in the line - up! (*)
However, we never know inside stories such as condition of players, age restrictions, availability etc.
I am sure that the selectors and the captain did what they could to present the best possible line-up!
I remember that in the beginning we were all praising them.
I still praise them now!

(*) Apologies I haven't checked the ladies' ratings, form etc to refer to their claim for inclusion.

It's all very close at the margins. Netherlands, with Giri on Board 1, were on the edge right through, and Norway, without You Know Who, scraped in by one tie-break point.

Vlad
17-08-2020, 06:52 PM
However, we never know inside stories such as condition of players, age restrictions, availability etc.


One inside story for you... Belarus tricked us by putting reserve players instead of the main ones in the last round. The expectation was that Kovalev (2650+) will play. So we really needed Anton (who already played 2 previous games) to match him on the top board.

Instead they put a reserve player Stupak (2520) to lead their team (who has never played on the top board before). This had 3 effects. 1) Anton's opponent was fresh. 2) Anton's preparation was wasted. 3) Anton thought it would be easy. So he become a bit careless and misplayed the opening.

If it was known, Max would play instead.

ER
17-08-2020, 07:03 PM
It's all very close at the margins. Netherlands, with Giri on Board 1, were on the edge right through, and Norway, without You Know Who, scraped in by one tie-break point.

Yeah undoubtedly so. Not easy affairs these promotion to the final top division finals. Both Netherlands and Norway aren't chess super powers but the four groups x 10 players allows room for quite a few upsets!

ER
17-08-2020, 07:09 PM
One inside story for you... Belarus tricked us by putting reserve players instead of the main ones in the last round. The expectation was that Kovalev (2650+) will play. So we really needed Anton (who already played 2 previous games) to match him on the top board.

Instead they put a reserve player Stupak (2520) to lead their team (who has never played on the top board before). This had 3 effects. 1) Anton's opponent was fresh. 2) Anton's preparation was wasted. 3) Anton thought it would be easy. So he become a bit careless and misplayed the opening.

If it was known, Max would play instead.

One wonders about the purpose of these kind of tricks. :(
Belarus had absolutely no reason to trap us into this since they had no chance to advance to division one.
Of course they can always claim they did nothing illegal.
Maybe the losers' trip of causing some harm before the went down the drain.
Fyodor based some of his writings on that theme!

Vlad
17-08-2020, 07:15 PM
One wonders about the purpose of these kind of tricks. :(
Belarus had absolutely no reason to trap us into this since they had no chance to advance to division one.


Well, I suppose they did not care at that stage. If they cared, they would put Kovalev.:lol:

MichaelBaron
17-08-2020, 07:35 PM
Well, I suppose they did not care at that stage. If they cared, they would put Kovalev.:lol:

I am surprised the Belorussian team is still able to play, given the current situation in the country...

MichaelBaron
17-08-2020, 07:38 PM
One inside story for you... Belarus tricked us by putting reserve players instead of the main ones in the last round. The expectation was that Kovalev (2650+) will play. So we really needed Anton (who already played 2 previous games) to match him on the top board.

Instead they put a reserve player Stupak (2520) to lead their team (who has never played on the top board before). This had 3 effects. 1) Anton's opponent was fresh. 2) Anton's preparation was wasted. 3) Anton thought it would be easy. So he become a bit careless and misplayed the opening.

If it was known, Max would play instead.

I think given that Anton is Australia's top player by a margin, it would make sense to keep him on board 1 but have more variety on board 2. All in all, I think its better to play Stupak without preparation (played him in blitz on chess.com and lichess) than Kovalev who is known to be able to hold his own even against 2700+ players

Zelgiusfan5000
17-08-2020, 08:07 PM
One wonders about the purpose of these kind of tricks. :(
Belarus had absolutely no reason to trap us into this since they had no chance to advance to division one.
Maybe the losers' trip of causing some harm before the went down the drain.

So you should just roll over and die if you can’t qualify for the next division? Chess is not just about the final results...

ER
17-08-2020, 08:28 PM
So you should just roll over and die if you can’t qualify for the next division? Chess is not just about the final results...

sport comes first, play fair, otherwise yeah just roll over and die!

ER
17-08-2020, 08:32 PM
I am surprised the Belorussian team is still able to play, given the current situation in the country...

lol you never know they might be Lukashenko supporters! :D (not that sure if that's good or bad anyways) :D :P

Vlad
17-08-2020, 08:46 PM
One more inside story for you... But it is a big secret.:D

Anton was invited to participate in the junior speed championship on chess.com second year in a row. :clap:

ER
17-08-2020, 08:48 PM
One more inside story for you... But it is a big secret.:D

Anton was invited to participate in the junior speed championship on chess.com second year in a row. :clap:

Excellent, congratulations GM Anton Smirnov!

Vlad
17-08-2020, 08:54 PM
I am surprised the Belorussian team is still able to play, given the current situation in the country...

When you are number 7 in the list of players of your country and you are given a chance to represent your country on the top board...

ER
17-08-2020, 09:13 PM
Excellent, congratulations GM Anton Smirnov!

Oops I better rephrase that, GM Anton Vladimirovich Smirnov!

Kevin Bonham
17-08-2020, 10:19 PM
One wonders about the purpose of these kind of tricks. :(
Belarus had absolutely no reason to trap us into this since they had no chance to advance to division one.

If it was a deliberate trick, the fact that it worked and that they won the game easily with black - which very probably wouldn't have happened had they fielded Kovalev - tends to vindicate it from their perspective.

Opponents are allowed to field who they like; it's a strategic choice just like deciding what opening to play. It must be tricky in preparation deciding how much work to devote to the possibility that an opposing team might do something strange with team selection.

Vlad
17-08-2020, 10:26 PM
It must be tricky in preparation deciding how much work to devote to the possibility that an opposing team might do something strange with team selection.

Especially when it is the third game in the day and there are multiple chances that the third game would not be needed.

Kevin Bonham
17-08-2020, 10:29 PM
Out of interest, when did the teams have to be lodged? Did a team lodge its lineups for rounds 7,8 and 9 all at the start of the day's play, or were they lodged round by round?

Vlad
17-08-2020, 10:32 PM
Out of interest, when did the teams have to be lodged? Did a team lodge its lineups for rounds 7,8 and 9 all at the start of the day's play, or were they lodged round by round?

10 minutes before the start of each round.

Craig_Hall
18-08-2020, 05:15 PM
Also, the only way to get a reserve to play top board is to play both reserves - selected players are automatically placed above reserves if one reserve plays.

If Belarus were unable to qualify regardless of result, rather than tactics, it could just have been about giving everyone a game - NZ ensured everyone got to play (if available) rather than logging on for hours with no prospect of playing, especially once it became clear that we had no chance of qualifying, and that's hopefully not unique to us.

MichaelBaron
18-08-2020, 09:27 PM
Also, the only way to get a reserve to play top board is to play both reserves - selected players are automatically placed above reserves if one reserve plays.

If Belarus were unable to qualify regardless of result, rather than tactics, it could just have been about giving everyone a game - NZ ensured everyone got to play (if available) rather than logging on for hours with no prospect of playing, especially once it became clear that we had no chance of qualifying, and that's hopefully not unique to us.

''Ensuring that everyone got to play...hm...that is not unique to NZ for sure...unfortunately. Some teams would never do it though.

Desmond
25-08-2020, 02:00 PM
Down to the last 12 for the playoffs now:

https://en.chessbase.com/portals/all/2020/08/online-olympiad/Online-Olympiad.jpg (https://en.chessbase.com/post/online-olympiad-playoffs-preview)

Ian Rout
25-08-2020, 03:32 PM
Down to the last 12 for the playoffs now:

Evidently Australia's group was pretty tough - both Germany and Bulgaria made the top twelve.

Also interesting that China, USA and Russia finished in the same half of the draw so at least one won't make the semi-finals.

Desmond
25-08-2020, 04:43 PM
Evidently Australia's group was pretty tough - both Germany and Bulgaria made the top twelve.

Also interesting that China, USA and Russia finished in the same half of the draw so at least one won't make the semi-finals.

Yes China finished 2nd in their group to India, otherwise they'd be at the opposite side of the draw.

I guess there's no easy matches to be had at this point, but if you had a choice the top half is the place to be.

Vlad
25-08-2020, 10:36 PM
Evidently Australia's group was pretty tough - both Germany and Bulgaria made the top twelve.


Not just that. Unfortunately FIDE did not do anything to stop some teams using computer assistance. I will not post details here but happy to share them privately.

Separately to this, there is a very interesting discussion on Shirov's, Solozhenkin's and Sutovski's facebook pages. Sutovski continues to make harmless threats to cheaters. "We gonna find you... And then..."

Shirov and Solozhenkin are making fun of these claims. "Then what? Will it be like yesterday when nothing happened?"

ER
25-08-2020, 11:20 PM
to get a better picture of who plays whom in the play offs!

4427

I am impressed by Greece's performance! After starting from last being defeated 1-5 by the US in the opening round
they smashed all of their other opponents (*) including Poland who also qualified, finishing equal first with the Americans who as expected topped the group!
(*) drew with Argentina.

FINAL GROUP D STANDINGS

4428

MichaelBaron
26-08-2020, 01:24 AM
Not just that. Unfortunately FIDE did not do anything to stop some teams using computer assistance. I will not post details here but happy to share them privately.

Separately to this, there is a very interesting discussion on Shirov's, Solozhenkin's and Sutovski's facebook pages. Sutovski continues to make harmless threats to cheaters. "We gonna find you... And then..."

Shirov and Solozhenkin are making fun of these claims. "Then what? Will it be like yesterday when nothing happened?"

No wonder. On the one hand, Fide really needs those online events. On the other hand with so many teams playing (including ones from rather ''exotic'' places) it is hard to ensure complete anti-cheating controls.

Desmond
28-08-2020, 08:08 AM
Down to the last 12 for the playoffs now:

https://en.chessbase.com/portals/all/2020/08/online-olympiad/Online-Olympiad.jpg (https://en.chessbase.com/post/online-olympiad-playoffs-preview)

https://scontent.fbne3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118380309_10224020900175054_5911267087461583438_o. jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=6sMm9zNSCgcAX9b2Yl4&_nc_ht=scontent.fbne3-1.fna&oh=d3c364c6e4db2df21097133f8fb1ba5b&oe=5F6D9531

MichaelBaron
28-08-2020, 10:35 AM
While China and some other strong team faltered. Overall, no big surprises. The favorites are marching on.

MichaelBaron
29-08-2020, 12:06 PM
Big scandal with Armenia and India. Armenia refused to play the 2d match. Heated discussion of the case on Sutovsky's Fb.

Desmond
29-08-2020, 12:28 PM
Big scandal with Armenia and India. Armenia refused to play the 2d match. Heated discussion of the case on Sutovsky's Fb.

Thanks, I was wondering about that. This is the auto translate:

Dramatic interchange in India-Armenia duel. In the first match, with a score of 2.5 for 1.5 in favor of Hindus, Armenian grandmaster Martirosyan (perhaps not because of his fault) had a technical failure, and he lost in time - the worst, but no one's position. At this moment, Koner, who crushed the whole party against Danielyan, zoomed and lost. Thus, the score became 3.5 on 2.5 in favor of Hindus. The Armenian team filed a protest, claiming that the failure occurred due to the platform's fault, not due to Internet problems. The appeal jury (under the chairmanship of the FIDE President) has left the party's result in force. Armenians refused to reach the second match, and India reached the semifinal. Emotionally I understand the disappointment of the Armenian team, but it is necessary to understand - this is a bitter but inevitable fee to play online. And the reasoning of Levon Aronyan, who asked the rhetorical question ′′ we just asked to finish the party, isn't it so much?", alas, don't work. You can't finish playing games, you can't accurately set in a short period of time - whose fault is there. I can only assure you that FIDE is extremely impartially considering such cases. And yes, with all emotions, it was not necessary to shoot from the second match. Obviously, no one sued the Armenian national team, and at least according to the rules, they were wrong.

ElevatorEscapee
29-08-2020, 05:28 PM
I wound up tuned into Samay Raina's Youtube broadcast right the end of the first round, and it was extremely entertaining seeing the reactions of the Indian commentators calling the action (suffice to say that they weren't completely unbiased).

I tuned in at around the 50 minute mark of the below video - all games finished at about the 1 hour mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvBwfYMLpgs

In the game in question, Haik Martirosyan was black against Nihal Sarin, and he was a pawn down in a bishops of same colour endgame which looked to be heading for a draw with both players having around 50 seconds each, plus the increment (around 54:31 in the video).

The commentators thought this was too boring and most likely heading for a draw, so they looked at the Humpy Koneru game for a couple of minutes, before coming back to it at around 56:24 to indicate that White had won on time.

Final position:
WK h6, WB b3, WP d4, e5, g5
BK f8, BB e4, BP e6, f7

Apparently black had disconnected, and the extra half point meant that India won the first round 3.5-2.5.

Armenia protested - which delayed the start of the next round.

It was interesting that the channel was able to get Emil Sutovsky on Zoom, as well as GM Adhiban Baskaran & even Anish Giri for some reason. While waiting on the result of the appeal, Sutovsky wound up playing a blindfold game against Raina at some point.

By the time Armenia decided to forfeit, I'd long since gone to bed.

I'll be watching that channel tonight when India takes on Poland at 7pm - if it's half as entertaining as last night, it will be well worth it!

Scott Colliver
29-08-2020, 05:53 PM
The position was a draw unless there was a massive blunder.

I think Armenia should have played the second match, the could have won it and taken it to Armegeddon.

Desmond
29-08-2020, 07:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l68CGuDXbag&t=1s

Desmond
29-08-2020, 08:04 PM
I'll be watching that channel tonight when India takes on Poland at 7pm - if it's half as entertaining as last night, it will be well worth it!
Very nice time zone for us with India playing, hopefully they go all the way. Lost first set though.

Desmond
29-08-2020, 08:42 PM
Very nice time zone for us with India playing, hopefully they go all the way. Lost first set though.

And win set 2 to go to arma. :)

Desmond
29-08-2020, 09:10 PM
And India thru thanks to Humpy!

Desmond
30-08-2020, 11:10 AM
USA out!
Shankland must be kicking himself. Last game to finish, trailing 3-2, Needing to win this to tie the first set.

Shankland-Dubov

62.c7?? [Presumably missing that Rxc7 comes with check, and expecting to pick up the rook with Bf4 next. 62.Bf4+ then c7 wins easily] 62. ...Rxc7+ 63.Rf7 1/2-1/2

Vlad
30-08-2020, 11:57 AM
I suppose the elephant in the room for the USA team is why neither Naka, Caruana or Dominguez play?
Shankland is a player of a different league from these guys. Also he is not very familiar with chess.com. So the result is to some degree expected.

It is a similar story for China. They bring the best in the adult ranks, but could not bring the best juniors. In some sense why bother with such a half-baked team?

The two teams that are in the final stage seems to be the opposite. Both Russia and India brought more or less the best they could possibly bring. So the outcome is fair in some sense.:)

MichaelBaron
30-08-2020, 12:13 PM
I suppose the elephant in the room for the USA team is why neither Naka, Caruana or Dominguez play?
Shankland is a player of a different league from these guys. Also he is not very familiar with chess.com. So the result is to some degree expected.

It is a similar story for China. They bring the best in the adult ranks, but could not bring the best juniors. In some sense why bother with such a half-baked team?

The two teams that are in the final stage seems to be the opposite. Both Russia and India brought more or less the best they could possibly bring. So the outcome is fair in some sense.:)

If Russia wins, we will surely hear plenty of Filatov's explaining what an important event it is and how Russia proved it is the very best team...under his great coaching of course :).

Desmond
30-08-2020, 07:26 PM
I suppose the elephant in the room for the USA team is why neither Naka, Caruana or Dominguez play?
Shankland is a player of a different league from these guys. Also he is not very familiar with chess.com. So the result is to some degree expected.

It is a similar story for China. They bring the best in the adult ranks, but could not bring the best juniors. In some sense why bother with such a half-baked team?

The two teams that are in the final stage seems to be the opposite. Both Russia and India brought more or less the best they could possibly bring. So the outcome is fair in some sense.:)

Yes good question. Though Shankland really "should" have won both his games. And if he does, USA advances.

By the way. does anyone know what time is starts?

Metro
30-08-2020, 08:40 PM
I have:
11:00 am Sunday, Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) is
9:00 pm Sunday, in Melbourne VIC

Desmond
30-08-2020, 08:55 PM
I have:
11:00 am Sunday, Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) is
9:00 pm Sunday, in Melbourne VIC

Thanks yes chessbase india is playing their national anthem, so presumably the start is imminent.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJLyFSVuRnk

Metro
30-08-2020, 09:18 PM
Final Round 1
Artemiev,V - Harikrishna, P. *
Koneru, H - Lagno, K *
Kosteniuk, A- Harika,D *
Praggnanandhaa, R- Sarana, A *
Shuvalova, P- Divya, D *
Vidit, Santosh - Nepomniachtchi, I

Desmond
30-08-2020, 09:39 PM
6 draws :)

Scott Colliver
30-08-2020, 09:45 PM
I wonder how many changes there will be to the teams, Russia could even make 5 changes while Anand and Sarin at least might come in for India.

Desmond
30-08-2020, 10:39 PM
Not sure if site issues or India DC issues...

Vlad
30-08-2020, 11:01 PM
This is a hilarious situation. 2 Indians got disconnected and request a replay... People are joking that Armenians should decide...:)

ElevatorEscapee
31-08-2020, 12:02 AM
Worldwide Cloudflare outage - joint winners declared.

Vlad
31-08-2020, 12:20 AM
Yes, the most ridiculous and inconsistent decision has just been announced. That makes this joke Olympiad even jokier.:wall:

ElevatorEscapee
31-08-2020, 10:24 AM
I'm also a little bemused by what happened.

Of the two games in question, it must have been especially heartbreaking for the Indian junior female player, Divya Deshmukh, who seemed to have a strong attack against Polina Shuvalova, with a simple and clear plan with around 1:25 left on the clock - she was visibly distraught at having the game interrupted. In the other game, Nihar Sarin for India was already short on time (under 20 seconds) and looked to have a tough job to hold the position against Andrey Esipenko, but he did have an extra pawn, and both players had the increment.


From the Chess.com stream, the drama is about to unfold at around the 1:30 mark, with the commentators noting first loss on time at around 1:32:40.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=losS_mdRs7Y


To me there seemed to be only two logical resolutions:
1) Dismiss the appeal and uphold the result of the two games affected as losses to India (this would have been consistent with the Armenian decision in the semi-finals). Or
2) If the widespread Internet disconnection was considered so significantly different to what the Armenian's experienced, then uphold the appeal and replay the two games in question. (The games would need to be restarted instead of continued from their final positions to avoid suspicion of players using the time the appeal was considered to analyze the positions).

I went to bed missing out on the promised "closing ceremony", which watching the end of the chess.com stream now just turned out to be a few comments delivered by Arkady Dvorkovich from a car (I hope he doesn't get into trouble for not wearing a seatbelt!). (Check out 4:22:33 from the link provided above).

The Chessbase India team seemed to turn it into a 55 minute Zoom party with the entire Indian team!


Was there meant to be a playoff for the bronze medal between USA & Poland?

MichaelBaron
31-08-2020, 11:38 AM
Yes, the most ridiculous and inconsistent decision has just been announced. That makes this joke Olympiad even jokier.:wall:

Absolutely...and this happens only a couple of Days after Armenia was in a similar boat...Armenia did provide evidence that there were no connection problems from their end but at the time - It did not seem to matter

Ian Rout
31-08-2020, 12:15 PM
There may well be a time in the future when online will be the normal way to play chess. If you invented chess now it would be an online game, nobody would dream of travelling to distant venues and playing on an analogue version of the pictures. Though if you invented it now it would last about six months before everyone abandoned it for something more interesting involving aliens, supernatural beings or criminal behaviour.

At present however online chess is really just for fun, and for most of those involved I'm sure it was fun. You don't get upset about irregularities about the sack race at a birthday party. Well some people would. But, except when you're being funny, you wouldn't call it the Sack Race Olympiad.

In real-world chess you might miss a game due to factors beyond your control, for instance the bus is cancelled or you can't leave the house due to a police operation. You still forfeit, because while not your fault the problem is at your end. The decision in the Armenia match is that the same principle applies. So to be consistent the decision in the final should be that the unfinished games were double forfeits.

Appeals committees are really for rare and unforeseeable events that can't easily be legislated, so the obvious message is that as disconnections are not rare (two out of eleven finals matches) there should in future be rules to cover them.

MichaelBaron
31-08-2020, 01:46 PM
There may well be a time in the future when online will be the normal way to play chess. If you invented chess now it would be an online game, nobody would dream of travelling to distant venues and playing on an analogue version of the pictures. Though if you invented it now it would last about six months before everyone abandoned it for something more interesting involving aliens, supernatural beings or criminal behaviour.

At present however online chess is really just for fun, and for most of those involved I'm sure it was fun. You don't get upset about irregularities about the sack race at a birthday party. Well some people would. But, except when you're being funny, you wouldn't call it the Sack Race Olympiad.

In real-world chess you might miss a game due to factors beyond your control, for instance the bus is cancelled or you can't leave the house due to a police operation. You still forfeit, because while not your fault the problem is at your end. The decision in the Armenia match is that the same principle applies. So to be consistent the decision in the final should be that the unfinished games were double forfeits.

Appeals committees are really for rare and unforeseeable events that can't easily be legislated, so the obvious message is that as disconnections are not rare (two out of eleven finals matches) there should in future be rules to cover them.

Well, right now the organizers are clearly not being consistent in applying the rules to start with.

Kevin Bonham
31-08-2020, 02:18 PM
This event was a rush-job with very complicated rules put in place at very short notice leaving federations to scramble to assemble teams. It doesn't surprise me that it has ended with controversy as a result of some issues with running it being not properly thought through. The optics of it are bad as it easily looks like India were too big to fail while Armenia weren't.

Metro
31-08-2020, 03:34 PM
More notice would have been nice.
How much notice was it (before the July 16 deadline extension)?

Kevin Bonham
31-08-2020, 04:07 PM
How much notice was it (before the July 16 deadline extension)?

The initial invite gave federations 12 days to assemble their teams.

MichaelBaron
31-08-2020, 04:21 PM
This event was a rush-job with very complicated rules put in place at very short notice leaving federations to scramble to assemble teams. It doesn't surprise me that it has ended with controversy as a result of some issues with running it being not properly thought through. The optics of it are bad as it easily looks like India were too big to fail while Armenia weren't.

Exactly. And the cheating issue was not addressed properly as well. Now that Russia is one of the winners: The Russian Media claims the event was a huge success :).

Vlad
01-09-2020, 11:10 AM
There are 2 big issues of online chess: cheating and connection. FIDE managed to hide the first one under the carpet (nothing happened) but could not hide the second one. I suppose this is what I consider to be a good outcome of this event. At least the second issue is now known to be very serious.

Craig_Hall
01-09-2020, 05:00 PM
The initial invite gave federations 12 days to assemble their teams.

And then it was weeks for higher teams to actually play!