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Gnostic Bishop
17-05-2020, 12:06 AM
God given rights. Do you really have any?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government.

If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty.

To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.

Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL

Scott Colliver
17-05-2020, 08:48 AM
Why do we have a right to anything?

Why do humans have a right to life but a cow or a sheep does not?

If we all are just evolved creatures then one species is not greater than any other so should not have any greater right to anything.

Rights are just a construct of human thinking and to me are not self-evident

Gnostic Bishop
29-05-2020, 11:50 PM
Why do we have a right to anything?

Why do humans have a right to life but a cow or a sheep does not?

If we all are just evolved creatures then one species is not greater than any other so should not have any greater right to anything.

Rights are just a construct of human thinking and to me are not self-evident

I agree that rights are a human construct, but I think animals also think they have rights.

A lion will think he has a right to kill his food, not that he can think like us, but the result is the same.

Does your constitution mention a creator or god?

Regards
DL

Kevin Bonham
30-05-2020, 12:03 AM
Does your constitution mention a creator or god?

If you mean the Australian constitution, it does, but only lightly. It opens with "WHEREAS the people of New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, Queensland, and Tasmania, humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God [..]", which is basically only about the claimed beliefs of the people at the time of Federation, and in any case doesn't cover Western Australia, which at that time hadn't joined. Secondly there is an oath/affirmation of office listed as a "schedule", but that allows for either a form mentioning God or a form that doesn't.

Gnostic Bishop
30-05-2020, 12:34 AM
If you mean the Australian constitution, it does, but only lightly. It opens with "WHEREAS the people of New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, Queensland, and Tasmania, humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God [..]", which is basically only about the claimed beliefs of the people at the time of Federation, and in any case doesn't cover Western Australia, which at that time hadn't joined. Secondly there is an oath/affirmation of office listed as a "schedule", but that allows for either a form mentioning God or a form that doesn't.

It makes it tough to elect an atheist if he has to give allegiance to an almighty god that is a fiction.

Being secular thinker, I do not think anything religious should be in political documents.

The majority may have believed in those days, but today, the majority is not believers, although the majority still show their traditional affiliations while never going to church even once a year.

Regards
DL

Kevin Bonham
30-05-2020, 12:42 AM
It makes it tough to elect an atheist if he has to give allegiance to an almighty god that is a fiction.

It's not an issue in Australia. Despite the Lord's Prayer continuing to deface parliamentary sessions, we've had at least one Prime Minister who was an atheist (Gillard) and at least four who were agnostics (Curtin, Holt, Whitlam, Hawke - some add Hughes).


Being secular thinker, I do not think anything religious should be in political documents.

I agree, though I don't mind people swearing an oath of office that mentions their religious beliefs if they want to.

Gnostic Bishop
30-05-2020, 02:57 AM
It's not an issue in Australia. Despite the Lord's Prayer continuing to deface parliamentary sessions, we've had at least one Prime Minister who was an atheist (Gillard) and at least four who were agnostics (Curtin, Holt, Whitlam, Hawke - some add Hughes).



I agree, though I don't mind people swearing an oath of office that mentions their religious beliefs if they want to.

It does not make a lot of difference, to most, I agree, but it is still a false oath and to begin a career in a political office with a false oath may not be the best in terms of the perceived honesty of the candidate.

Regards
DL