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MichaelBaron
30-10-2019, 01:49 AM
And here comes the following scenario:

A kid (a novice) is playing in an allegro tournament (possibly his first) and while playing - he is making all kinds of loud noises that are apparently due to a mental condition of his. Despite arbiters' asking him to be quiet and concentrate on his game...the noises become less frequent ..but continue.

The question is: Shall the arbiter NOT allow him to enter the tournament or...?

At emotional level, I would find it very difficult not to let him play. At a rational level however...noises disturb at least some of the remaining 40 players in the tournament hall significantly. It should also be added that NOT making these noises is possibly beyond the kids' control and he is clearly NOT doing it on purpose?

antichrist
30-10-2019, 11:40 AM
And here comes the following scenario:

A kid (a novice) is playing in an allegro tournament (possibly his first) and while playing - he is making all kinds of loud noises that are apparently due to a mental condition of his. Despite arbiters' asking him to be quiet and concentrate on his game...the noises become less frequent ..but continue.

The question is: Shall the arbiter NOT allow him to enter the tournament or...?

At emotional level, I would find it very difficult not to let him play. At a rational level however...noises disturb at least some of the remaining 40 players in the tournament hall significantly. It should also be added that NOT making these noises is possibly beyond the kids' control and he is clearly NOT doing it on purpose?

Put him out in the eatery so his noise hopefully won't disturb. But you don't believe in positive discrimination so cut his tongue out.

Kevin Bonham
30-10-2019, 02:09 PM
The arbiter is now required to "take special measures in the interests of disabled players and those who need medical attention," . In this case it would probably include moving the noisy player to somewhere where they would only disturb their opponent. The arbiter could ask the player to try to minimise the noise but it would be too harsh to default the player if they were unable to stop it entirely - whereas an able player who kept making noise despite warnings and without excuse could be defaulted.

MichaelBaron
30-10-2019, 04:31 PM
Put him out in the eatery so his noise hopefully won't disturb. But you don't believe in positive discrimination so cut his tongue out.

Put him out..along with opponents?

MichaelBaron
30-10-2019, 04:33 PM
The arbiter is now required to "take special measures in the interests of disabled players and those who need medical attention," . In this case it would probably include moving the noisy player to somewhere where they would only disturb their opponent. The arbiter could ask the player to try to minimise the noise but it would be too harsh to default the player if they were unable to stop it entirely - whereas an able player who kept making noise despite warnings and without excuse could be defaulted.

Thank you Kevin,
Will do if re-occurs.
Another tricky dimension of this matter is...how to clarify whether he is ''officially disabled'' or not in cases of Mental disabilities?

Kevin Bonham
30-10-2019, 06:14 PM
Another tricky dimension of this matter is...how to clarify whether he is ''officially disabled'' or not in cases of Mental disabilities?

lost is on the FIDE Commission for the Disabled and may have useful information about this. For FIDE Laws of Chess purposes there is no definition, and mental disabilities are as relevant as any other. I think the arbiter should err on the side of assuming there is some kind of issue if unclear. If there is suspicion that a player is faking it then they could be asked to provide evidence from a doctor or psychologist.

Patrick Byrom
30-10-2019, 07:14 PM
Thank you Kevin, Will do if re-occurs. Another tricky dimension of this matter is...how to clarify whether he is ''officially disabled'' or not in cases of Mental disabilities?Can you clarify what 'mental condition' he is supposed to have? Tourette's Syndrome causes people to uncontrollably make repeated unwanted sounds, and would definitely be an "official disability". Schizophrenics often talk to themselves, and that would be an official disability as well. On the other hand, he may just be hyperactive, which is not a recognised disability.

MichaelBaron
30-10-2019, 08:17 PM
Can you clarify what 'mental condition' he is supposed to have? Tourette's Syndrome causes people to uncontrollably make repeated unwanted sounds, and would definitely be an "official disability". Schizophrenics often talk to themselves, and that would be an official disability as well. On the other hand, he may just be hyperactive, which is not a recognised disability.

I am not a medical doctor. Shall we approach parents and ask? I do not think its easy to clarify...also may be interpreted by parents in the wrong way...

Patrick Byrom
30-10-2019, 08:55 PM
I am not a medical doctor.Neither am I, but the three conditions I mentioned wouldn't be hard to distinguish. Also, in your initial post, you said: "apparently due to a mental condition of his", so I assumed that someone must have told you about it.

Kevin Bonham
30-10-2019, 09:01 PM
On the other hand, he may just be hyperactive, which is not a recognised disability.

What about if it is medically diagnosed (and hopefully not overdiagnosed!) ADHD?

Patrick Byrom
30-10-2019, 10:45 PM
What about if it is medically diagnosed (and hopefully not overdiagnosed!) ADHD?In severe cases it could be considered a disability, but I doubt anyone with severe ADHD could play chess. From the way Michael described his behaviour, I think the boy possibly has a mild form.

MichaelBaron
31-10-2019, 12:21 AM
In severe cases it could be considered a disability, but I doubt anyone with severe ADHD could play chess. From the way Michael described his behaviour, I think the boy possibly has a mild form.

My Problem in dealing with such cases is not only the need to follow ''legalities'' but also the ethical side.

MichaelBaron
31-10-2019, 12:22 AM
Neither am I, but the three conditions I mentioned wouldn't be hard to distinguish. Also, in your initial post, you said: "apparently due to a mental condition of his", so I assumed that someone must have told you about it.

We have been discussing it at the chess club...but again none of us are medical doctors....and re not hard to distinguish...I think effect is easier to spot for the non professionals than the cause