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Spiny Norman
28-12-2004, 07:39 PM
I was over @ the mother-in-law's house for dinner tonight and watching the evening news. One of the voiceovers caught my attention. It was words to the effect of "some of the islands in Indonesia may have shifted by up to 20 metres" or something like that.

Did anyone catch this? Did I hear it right? Is this just media ravings, or a scientific reality? It made me think of the book of Revelation, so I went and looked up the reference:

"Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found" -- Rev 16:20

Back in v18 the author describes a massive eathquake that precedes this event. I'm certainly not saying that the current events are in any way related to the prophecy and I don't want this discussion to go down the religious track.

But perhaps someone here with a scientific bent can comment on the media report that "islands may have moved by up to 20 metres" and other references to needing to re-map the region.

Sounds rather far out to me.

Rincewind
28-12-2004, 07:57 PM
Volcanic activity and tectonic processes mean islands,mountains and even continents are constantly in motion. I heard somewhere that in a millino years, southern California would be up around Alaska. However, I doubt any island worthy of the name has shifted 20 meters by this event alone. Although some sandbars, isthmi and the like may have moved that far and more.

ursogr8
28-12-2004, 08:03 PM
I was over @ the mother-in-law's house for dinner tonight and watching the evening news. One of the voiceovers caught my attention. It was words to the effect of "some of the islands in Indonesia may have shifted by up to 20 metres" or something like that.

Did anyone catch this? Did I hear it right? Is this just media ravings, or a scientific reality? It made me think of the book of Revelation, so I went and looked up the reference:

"Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found" -- Rev 16:20

Back in v18 the author describes a massive eathquake that precedes this event. I'm certainly not saying that the current events are in any way related to the prophecy and I don't want this discussion to go down the religious track.

But perhaps someone here with a scientific bent can comment on the media report that "islands may have moved by up to 20 metres" and other references to needing to re-map the region.

Sounds rather far out to me.

Steve
You can get a good feeling for the dimension of these movements by spending a day or so in Napier on the east coast of the NZ North Island. The museums have great explanations of the re-alignment of the coast-line (both vertically, and the high water mark). 20 metres was not out of the ordinary.

I hope a poster can give you some hard data.

regards
starter

Rincewind
28-12-2004, 08:12 PM
You can get a good feeling for the dimension of these movements by spending a day or so in Napier on the east coast of the NZ North Island. The museums have great explanations of the re-alignment of the coast-line (both vertically, and the high water mark). 20 metres was not out of the ordinary.

I hope a poster can give you some hard data.

I spent a week in Napier one day. Not much ELSE to do there except see the earthquake simulator or visit the Modest reptile zoo (albeit with a very nice iguana). However, in this case I believe the earthquake happened a far way out in the middle of the ocean so I would expect the coastline rearrangement would be due to the movement of water carrying sand and debris from one place to another. I can't see rocky coastlines being greatly affected, but less substantial coral and sandy islands could have been significantly rearranged.

Rincewind
28-12-2004, 08:19 PM
It made me think of the book of Revelation, so I went and looked up the reference:

"Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found" -- Rev 16:20

What about...

"From the sky huge hailstones of about a hundred pounds each fell upon men." -- Rev 16:21

???

It hailed at the cricket on the same day! Maybe not 100 pounds but still I'm sure some people "cursed God on account of the plague of hail".

Is the end is nigh?

Spiny Norman
28-12-2004, 08:19 PM
I can't see rocky coastlines being greatly affected, but less substantial coral and sandy islands could have been significantly rearranged.

That was my instinctive reaction also. One of the Krakatoa links I posted elsewhere referred to "coral heads weighing 600 tons" being lifted up out of the water as the result of the tsunami. So if there was enough of that sort of thing going on with a series of waves then it might make a bit of a difference once things settled down again (e.g. reef edges damaged or destroyed might change the prevailing currents, taking sand from one place and putting it in another).

Reminds me a little of a visit to Portland (VIC) about 20 years ago. Someone made the mistake of building a wonderful new pier and/or breakwater for the shipping in the port. Turns out they affected the prevailing ocean current or wave patterns and turned them in a new direction. Several years later some houses that used to be lovely beachside properties were 50m to 100m "out to sea" with only the pipes from their loos remaining to stick up out of the water.

Spiny Norman
28-12-2004, 08:21 PM
It hailed at the cricket on the same day! Maybe not 100 pounds but still I'm sure some people "cursed God on account of the plague of hail". Is the end is nigh?

Could be the end for organised religion if God gets caught interfering with the cricket! :P

Rincewind
28-12-2004, 08:22 PM
Could be the end for organised religion if God gets caught interfering with the cricket! :P

Doubly so if it turns out he supports (the predominately muslim) Pakistan. ;)

ursogr8
28-12-2004, 09:02 PM
I spent a week in Napier one day. Not much ELSE to do there except see the earthquake simulator or visit the Modest reptile zoo (albeit with a very nice iguana). However, in this case I believe the earthquake happened a far way out in the middle of the ocean so I would expect the coastline rearrangement would be due to the movement of water carrying sand and debris from one place to another. I can't see rocky coastlines being greatly affected, but less substantial coral and sandy islands could have been significantly rearranged.

Baz

When I visited Napier they had just completed an exercise to take the oral history of the 'quake from residents who could remember. These histories were available for the public to listen to. We then visited some of the headlands that had changed after the quake. The story we were fed was of a harbour disappearing as the sea floor lifted dramatically, and permanently. The current harbour is alleged to be in quite a different spot from the old. It was definitely an uplift story rather than a dump and debris story.

starter

ps I can't believe you didn't stay over for an extra 'week' to walk through the ART DECO capital of the world?

Woodstocker
28-12-2004, 09:41 PM
It was words to the effect of "some of the islands in Indonesia may have shifted by up to 20 metres" or something like that.

Did anyone catch this? Did I hear it right? Is this just media ravings, or a scientific reality?

Mr Frosty,

In deed, 20m is not at all out of the question.

If the body of a plate moves 5 cm per year, it will move some 20 m in 400 years.

Should the boundaries remain static for 400 years, that is to say, earthquake free, then the bedrock adjacent to the fault line will move 20m to catch-up, if you will, with the body of the plate.

Islands found at the very edge of the moving plate will, therefore, move at distance proportional to the degree of tension released in the earthquake.

HTH.

Ian Woodstocker

Rincewind
28-12-2004, 11:04 PM
In deed, 20m is not at all out of the question.

If the body of a plate moves 5 cm per year, it will move some 20 m in 400 years.

Should the boundaries remain static for 400 years, that is to say, earthquake free, then the bedrock adjacent to the fault line will move 20m to catch-up, if you will, with the body of the plate.

Islands found at the very edge of the moving plate will, therefore, move at distance proportional to the degree of tension released in the earthquake.

That makes sense Woodstocker. I had a look at the epicentre of the quake and it is much much closer to civilisation than I expected. It was in fact not far off the west Sumatran coast.

There is some more info on it here...

http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/bulletin/neic_slav_ts.html

It says in part "From the size of the earthquake, it is likely that the average displacement on the fault plane was about fifteen meters.".

As the Indian plate was being subducted under the Burma plate I assume this means Indonesian is now 15m closer, not further away from, India. ;)

antichrist
29-12-2004, 05:47 PM
Now we know how Matt manages to get up Bill's ........ so well.