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Kevin Bonham
12-10-2018, 09:17 PM
Less than a month to go! Thought I'd put the poll up.

MichaelBaron
12-10-2018, 09:56 PM
My ''money'' is on Magnus!

Jesper Norgaard
13-10-2018, 11:38 AM
I think Magnus might stumble this time. I'm cheering for him, but after Caruana's sweet Olympiad performance, I think he is slightly the favorite, he has momentum. But Magnus will win the title back the very next time!

Caruana is a wild card in match play, I believe he has no experience at all?

Desmond
04-11-2018, 09:18 AM
The logo is so weird. I guess they are expecting a close match.

https://images.firstpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/world-chess-championship-worldchess-list.jpg

Capablanca-Fan
04-11-2018, 02:40 PM
↑↑ Rather creepy.

MichaelBaron
04-11-2018, 08:56 PM
On the positive side...Logos for the WCC matches usually go unnoticed....this one did manage to attract some attention.

Max Illingworth
05-11-2018, 01:00 AM
Don't forget the new chess dating site by Agon...

Metro
08-11-2018, 11:53 AM
Countdown.Are you excited?
https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20181110T15&p0=136&font=cursive

ER
09-11-2018, 12:53 PM
Ι change my prediction.
Magnus wins by 2 pts.
Magnus 7 - 5 Fabiano.
That's because I am not sure about the "dead rubber" situation
in the case of 6.5 - 4.5 which I initially predicted!

ER
09-11-2018, 08:53 PM
Ι change my prediction.
Magnus wins by 2 pts.
Magnus 7 - 5 Fabiano.
That's because I am not sure about the "dead rubber" situation
in the case of 6.5 - 4.5 which I initially predicted!

OK now, I understood it (took me some bloody time :D :P ) First who reaches 6.5 pts wins!

MichaelBaron
10-11-2018, 12:30 AM
OK now, I understood it (took me some bloody time :D :P ) First who reaches 6.5 pts wins!

Game one will start shortly on chessbomb.com

ER
10-11-2018, 01:04 AM
I feel nostalgic for moments like this...

https://www.facebook.com/GKKasparov/videos/10153780289113307/?t=2

Michael talking about accents, is Gary speaking "proper" Russian here?

MichaelBaron
10-11-2018, 01:24 AM
I feel nostalgic for moments like this...

https://www.facebook.com/GKKasparov/videos/10153780289113307/?t=2

Michael talking about accents, is Gary speaking "proper" Russian here?

Given how boringly game 1 is going so far...(11 moves have been played) I feel nostalgic too :)

MichaelBaron
10-11-2018, 03:14 AM
Ok...it has got interesting ...by 4 am :)

ER
10-11-2018, 03:26 AM
Yes, I follow analysis by Grischuk and Svidler… Move 18 and Caruana is like 35 mins behind on the clock!

MichaelBaron
10-11-2018, 10:14 AM
Sigh Karuana escaped! A couple of years ago, Carlsen would not miss such an opportunity. Softening down a bit. Would he win that game, it would make the rest of the match difficult for Fabi.

Capablanca-Fan
10-11-2018, 02:27 PM
Interesting game (https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/carlsen-caruana-world-chess-championship-2018/1/1/1). Carlsen didn't care about a backward P on f6 then losing it, because he got good play. He missed the winning plan of quickly switching flanks 34... Qe5 then Qb2, then in some lines ... b5 and ... Ba5. And on move 38, one possibility was ... Rg3, which looked like he was playing for by marching his P down to h4. 39. Ng3 hxg3 and the combination of strong passed Ps and the threats of ... Qa1 getting behind the Ps will be too hard for White to handle.

Kevin Bonham
10-11-2018, 06:54 PM
Game 1 Caruana - Carlsen

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 g6 4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. d3 Bg7 6. h3 Nf6 7. Nc3 Nd7 8. Be3 e5 9. O-O b6 10. Nh2 Nf8 11. f4 exf4 12. Rxf4 Be6 13. Rf2 h6 14. Qd2 g5 15.
Raf1 Qd6 16. Ng4 O-O-O 17. Nf6 Nd7 18. Nh5 Be5 19. g4 f6 20. b3 Bf7 21. Nd1 Nf8
22. Nxf6 Ne6 23. Nh5 Bxh5 24. gxh5 Nf4 25. Bxf4 gxf4 26. Rg2 Rhg8 27. Qe2 Rxg2+
28. Qxg2 Qe6 29. Nf2 Rg8 30. Ng4 Qe8 31. Qf3 Qxh5 32. Kf2 Bc7 33. Ke2 Qg5 34.
Nh2 h5 35. Rf2 Qg1 36. Nf1 h4 37. Kd2 Kb7 38. c3 Be5 39. Kc2 Qg7 40. Nh2 Bxc3
41. Qxf4 Bd4 42. Qf7+ Ka6 43. Qxg7 Rxg7 44. Re2 Rg3 45. Ng4 Rxh3 46. e5 Rf3 47.
e6 Rf8 48. e7 Re8 49. Nh6 h3 50. Nf5 Bf6 51. a3 b5 52. b4 cxb4 53. axb4 Bxe7
54. Nxe7 h2 55. Rxh2 Rxe7 56. Rh6 Kb6 57. Kc3 Rd7 58. Rg6 Kc7 59. Rh6 Rd6 60.
Rh8 Rg6 61. Ra8 Kb7 62. Rh8 Rg5 63. Rh7+ Kb6 64. Rh6 Rg1 65. Kc2 Rf1 66. Rg6
Rh1 67. Rf6 Rh8 68. Kc3 Ra8 69. d4 Rd8 70. Rh6 Rd7 71. Rg6 Kc7 72. Rg5 Rd6 73.
Rg8 Rh6 74. Ra8 Rh3+ 75. Kc2 Ra3 76. Kb2 Ra4 77. Kc3 a6 78. Rh8 Ra3+ 79. Kb2
Rg3 80. Kc2 Rg5 81. Rh6 Rd5 82. Kc3 Rd6 83. Rh8 Rg6 84. Kc2 Kb7 85. Kc3 Rg3+
86. Kc2 Rg1 87. Rh5 Rg2+ 88. Kc3 Rg3+ 89. Kc2 Rg4 90. Kc3 Kb6 91. Rh6 Rg5 92.
Rf6 Rh5 93. Rg6 Rh3+ 94. Kc2 Rh5 95. Kc3 Rd5 96. Rh6 Kc7 97. Rh7+ Rd7 98. Rh5
Rd6 99. Rh8 Rg6 100. Rf8 Rg3+ 101. Kc2 Ra3 102. Rf7+ Kd6 103. Ra7 Kd5 104. Kb2
Rd3 105. Rxa6 Rxd4 106. Kb3 Re4 107. Kc3 Rc4+ 108. Kb3 Kd4 109. Rb6 Kd3 110.
Ra6 Rc2 111. Rb6 Rc3+ 112. Kb2 Rc4 113. Kb3 Kd4 114. Ra6 Kd5 115. Ra8 1/2-1/2

ElevatorEscapee
10-11-2018, 07:20 PM
The logo is so weird. I guess they are expecting a close match.

https://images.firstpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/world-chess-championship-worldchess-list.jpg

I think I can see a mating pattern from that position! Let's hope it's not a "forced" mate1

Kevin Bonham
11-11-2018, 01:36 AM
Once again the official website showing itself to be one of the worst things in internet history. Video not working and loads of people online complaining about it and saying they want their money back. When I went to the front page there wasn't even an obvious way to log in - I got in by trial and error of clicking things off the front page to bring up a page with a log in option.

Kevin Bonham
11-11-2018, 09:38 AM
Game 2 Carlsen - Caruana

Caruana bounced back well from nearly losing game 1.

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d5 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 Be7 5. Bf4 O-O 6. e3 c5 7. dxc5 Bxc5 8. Qc2
Nc6 9. a3 Qa5 10. Rd1 Rd8 11. Be2 Ne4 12. O-O Nxc3 13. bxc3 h6 14. a4 Ne7 15.
Ne5 Bd6 16. cxd5 Nxd5 17. Bf3 Nxf4 18. exf4 Bxe5 19. Rxd8+ Qxd8 20. fxe5 Qc7
21. Rb1 Rb8 22. Qd3 Bd7 23. a5 Bc6 24. Qd6 Qxd6 25. exd6 Bxf3 26. gxf3 Kf8 27.
c4 Ke8 28. a6 b6 29. c5 Kd7 30. cxb6 axb6 31. a7 Ra8 32. Rxb6 Rxa7 33. Kg2 e5
34. Rb4 f5 35. Rb6 Ke6 36. d7+ Kxd7 37. Rb5 Ke6 38. Rb6+ Kf7 39. Rb5 Kf6 40.
Rb6+ Kg5 41. Rb5 Kf4 42. Rb4+ e4 43. fxe4 fxe4 44. h3 Ra5 45. Rb7 Rg5+ 46. Kf1
Rg6 47. Rb4 Rg5 48. Rb7 Rg6 49. Rb4 1/2-1/2

terminator
12-11-2018, 07:02 PM
He He

Kevin Bonham
13-11-2018, 03:10 AM
In the current game, in this position:

r3r1k1/1pqn1pbp/2p3p1/4p3/1Q2P3/2BP1N1P/2P2PP1/R3R1K1 b - - 0 18

...there are claims that Carlsen touched his knight without saying j'adoube (he then played 18...b5).

UPDATE: Askild Bryn has said that on the audio he clearly does say it.

antichrist
13-11-2018, 07:49 AM
Once again the official website showing itself to be one of the worst things in internet history. Video not working and loads of people online complaining about it and saying they want their money back. When I went to the front page there wasn't even an obvious way to log in - I got in by trial and error of clicking things off the front page to bring up a page with a log in option.

Another worse move in history could be Woody Harrelson knocking over Caruana's king when doing the celebrity opening move, then moved queen pawn instead of king pawn - and the guy is a dedicated chess player!

Does this Sicilian variation have a name please?

Kevin Bonham
13-11-2018, 08:56 AM
Does this Sicilian variation have a name please?

Really you should look it up instead of being lazy all the time but in this case I'll tell you that 2...Nc6 3.Bb5 is the Rossolimo.

Game 3:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 g6 4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. d3 Bg7 6. O-O Qc7 7. Re1 e5 8. a3
Nf6 9. b4 O-O 10. Nbd2 Bg4 11. h3 Bxf3 12. Nxf3 cxb4 13. axb4 a5 14. bxa5 Rxa5
15. Bd2 Raa8 16. Qb1 Nd7 17. Qb4 Rfe8 18. Bc3 b5 19. Rxa8 Rxa8 20. Ra1 Rxa1+ 21.
Bxa1 Qa7 22. Bc3 Qa2 23. Qb2 Qxb2 24. Bxb2 f6 25. Kf1 Kf7 26. Ke2 Nc5 27. Bc3
Ne6 28. g3 Bf8 29. Nd2 Ng5 30. h4 Ne6 31. Nb3 h5 32. Bd2 Bd6 33. c3 c5 34. Be3
Ke7 35. Kd1 Kd7 36. Kc2 f5 37. Kd1 fxe4 38. dxe4 c4 39. Nd2 Nc5 40. Bxc5 Bxc5
41. Ke2 Kc6 42. Nf1 b4 43. cxb4 Bxb4 44. Ne3 Kc5 45. f4 exf4 46. gxf4 Ba5 47. f5
gxf5 48. Nxc4 Kxc4 49. exf5 1/2-1/2

antichrist
13-11-2018, 09:19 AM
Really you should look it up instead of being lazy all the time but in this case I'll tell you that 2...Nc6 3.Bb5 is the Rossolimo.

Game 3:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 g6 4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. d3 Bg7 6. O-O Qc7 7. Re1 e5 8. a3
Nf6 9. b4 O-O 10. Nbd2 Bg4 11. h3 Bxf3 12. Nxf3 cxb4 13. axb4 a5 14. bxa5 Rxa5
15. Bd2 Raa8 16. Qb1 Nd7 17. Qb4 Rfe8 18. Bc3 b5 19. Rxa8 Rxa8 20. Ra1 Rxa1+ 21.
Bxa1 Qa7 22. Bc3 Qa2 23. Qb2 Qxb2 24. Bxb2 f6 25. Kf1 Kf7 26. Ke2 Nc5 27. Bc3
Ne6 28. g3 Bf8 29. Nd2 Ng5 30. h4 Ne6 31. Nb3 h5 32. Bd2 Bd6 33. c3 c5 34. Be3
Ke7 35. Kd1 Kd7 36. Kc2 f5 37. Kd1 fxe4 38. dxe4 c4 39. Nd2 Nc5 40. Bxc5 Bxc5
41. Ke2 Kc6 42. Nf1 b4 43. cxb4 Bxb4 44. Ne3 Kc5 45. f4 exf4 46. gxf4 Ba5 47. f5
gxf5 48. Nxc4 Kxc4 49. exf5 1/2-1/2

thanks, I have already copied the moves onto wordpad and printed, with Capa Fans comments and when in the back of nowhere, with no internet, in between game sessions I will drag out and appreciate you guys

MichaelBaron
13-11-2018, 09:52 AM
In the current game, in this position:

r3r1k1/1pqn1pbp/2p3p1/4p3/1Q2P3/2BP1N1P/2P2PP1/R3R1K1 b - - 0 18

...there are claims that Carlsen touched his knight without saying j'adoube (he then played 18...b5).

UPDATE: Askild Bryn has said that on the audio he clearly does say it.

Logically, hard to imagine a King move being considered here.

Kevin Bonham
13-11-2018, 10:08 AM
Logically, hard to imagine a King move being considered here.

Knight not king, though it is hard to imagine why one would move the knight either. In the rules it doesn't matter whether a move is logical or not - the rules were recently firmed up so that if you don't say j'adoube (or "adjust" or similar) then it is assumed you deliberately touched the piece with the intent of moving it. This is the standard many arbiters were applying anyway.

It is all irrelevant because he did say it.

Kevin Bonham
13-11-2018, 11:39 PM
A video of Caruana doing training for the match was released but has since been deleted. This included a screenshot apparently of Caruana's Chessbase preparation file headings (https://twitter.com/TarjeiJS/status/1062322566642196482/photo/1), although there's some unconvincing speculation that this could be a deliberate ploy to throw Carlsen off track. Looks like a blunder.

Kevin Bonham
14-11-2018, 07:08 AM
Game 4

1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.g3 d5 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.Bg2 Bc5 7.0-0 0-0 8.d3 Re8 9.Bd2 Nxc3 10.Bxc3 Nd4 11.b4 Bd6 12.Rb1 Nxf3+ 13.Bxf3 a6 14.a4 c6 15.Re1 Bd7 16.e3 Qf6 17.Be4 Bf5 18.Qf3 Bxe4 19.Qxf6 gxf6 20.dxe4 b5 21.Red1 Bf8 22.axb5 axb5 23.Kg2 Red8 24.Rdc1 Kg7 25.Be1 Rdc8 26.Rc2 Ra4 27.Kf3 h5 28.Ke2 Kg6 29.h3 f5 30.exf5+ Kxf5 31.f3 Be7 32.e4+ Ke6 33.Bd2 Bd6 34.Rbc1 1/2-1/2

antichrist
14-11-2018, 09:21 AM
A video of Caruana doing training for the match was released but has since been deleted. This included a screenshot apparently of Caruana's Chessbase preparation file headings (https://twitter.com/TarjeiJS/status/1062322566642196482/photo/1), although there's some unconvincing speculation that this could be a deliberate ploy to throw Carlsen off track. Looks like a blunder.

Whilst Fischer was doing physical training in preparation for matches he would insist on being told children's stories as not to waste time

MichaelBaron
14-11-2018, 11:11 AM
Extremely boring game. Pity that Carlsen did not win Game 1. It would make the match far more exciting.

ElevatorEscapee
14-11-2018, 12:16 PM
A video of Caruana doing training for the match was released but has since been deleted. This included a screenshot apparently of Caruana's Chessbase preparation file headings (https://twitter.com/TarjeiJS/status/1062322566642196482/photo/1), although there's some unconvincing speculation that this could be a deliberate ploy to throw Carlsen off track. Looks like a blunder.

Either way, I note that Carlsen avoided the same opening from Game 2 (although odds are he would have done that regardless of the video anyway).

antichrist
14-11-2018, 01:32 PM
Extremely boring game. Pity that Carlsen did not win Game 1. It would make the match far more exciting.

I want Caruana to win but unfortunately that would mean an American champion when is almost undeserved.

Desmond
14-11-2018, 02:36 PM
Carlsen has now drawn 17 of his last 20 games

Kevin Bonham
14-11-2018, 02:41 PM
Draws between Carlsen and Caruana don't affect their ratings at the moment so if all 12 games are drawn and then Caruana wins the tiebreak, Carlsen will still be world number 1 by 3 points. If Carlsen falls behind in the match during the classic games, he will cease to be live #1, and if he loses the match in regular play Caruana will become world #1.

Kevin Bonham
15-11-2018, 09:52 AM
Ian Rogers @GMIanRogers

Sadly parting ways with @ChessLifeOnline after a decade. I declined to accept edits to my round 4 World Ch'p report which would downplay responsibility of editors of the Caruana video, downplay the effect of the video on Caruana's chances, and omit the key image from the video.

MichaelBaron
15-11-2018, 11:39 AM
Ian Rogers @GMIanRogers

Sadly parting ways with @ChessLifeOnline after a decade. I declined to accept edits to my round 4 World Ch'p report which would downplay responsibility of editors of the Caruana video, downplay the effect of the video on Caruana's chances, and omit the key image from the video.

Wow, I wonder why this disagreement because so critical? How to access that image as now I am curious to see it. Based on the text above, nature and significance of the disagreement are not transparent.

MichaelBaron
15-11-2018, 11:40 AM
I want Caruana to win but unfortunately that would mean an American champion when is almost undeserved.

I do not support Carlsen because he is from NOR and Caruana from USA, I support Carlsen because he is clearly a better WC for chess (even from publicity perspective) than Caruana.

Kevin Bonham
15-11-2018, 12:44 PM
How to access that image as now I am curious to see it.

It is quite easy to find, eg video clip https://twitter.com/olimpiuurcan/status/1062334344193175552
image https://www.nrk.no/sport/caruana-kan-ha-gjort-en-kjempetabbe-for-det-fjerde-partiet-1.14291983

Kevin Bonham
15-11-2018, 12:48 PM
I want Caruana to win but unfortunately that would mean an American champion when is almost undeserved.

He was born in the USA, played there til about age 13, transferred to Italy, transferred back at about age 23. He has to be registered somewhere. He is as much American as Italian.

MichaelBaron
15-11-2018, 01:29 PM
It is quite easy to find, eg video clip https://twitter.com/olimpiuurcan/status/1062334344193175552
image https://www.nrk.no/sport/caruana-kan-ha-gjort-en-kjempetabbe-for-det-fjerde-partiet-1.14291983

I just wonder why this clip could become source of such a big disagreement between the media channel and its writer...nothing highly sensitive there...

Kevin Bonham
15-11-2018, 11:28 PM
I just wonder why this clip could become source of such a big disagreement between the media channel and its writer...nothing highly sensitive there...

A further tweet from Ian: "@ChessLifeOnline had been a model employer until now and the USCF is of course pro-Caruana. However the lines shown on the video, suggesting Caruana's main Black defences for the match, is in my opinion quite a big deal., and being pro-Caruana should not mean not saying that."

MichaelBaron
16-11-2018, 02:25 AM
A further tweet from Ian: "@ChessLifeOnline had been a model employer until now and the USCF is of course pro-Caruana. However the lines shown on the video, suggesting Caruana's main Black defences for the match, is in my opinion quite a big deal., and being pro-Caruana should not mean not saying that."

Whether it is now considered as big deal or not...it has been done anyway...and its irrespective of what Ian had to tweet about it :).
But anyway...things happen in workplaces.

ER
16-11-2018, 02:31 AM
But anyway...things happen in workplaces.

for better or worse, those things sometimes lead to people losing (or resigning) their jobs.

Kevin Bonham
16-11-2018, 08:11 AM
Game 5 started out wild but it didn't go anywhere.

Now Carlsen gets two whites in a row.

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 g6 4.0-0 Bg7 5.Re1 e5 6.b4 Nxb4 7.Bb2 a6 8.a3 axb5 9.axb4 Rxa1 10.Bxa1 d6 11.bxc5 Ne7 12.Qe2 b4 13.Qc4 Qa5 14.cxd6 Be6 15.Qc7 Qxc7 16.dxc7 Nc6 17.c3 Kd7 18.cxb4 Ra8 19.Bc3 Kxc7 20.d3 Kb6 21.Bd2 Rd8 22.Be3+ Kb5 23.Nc3+ Kxb4 24.Nd5+ Bxd5 25.exd5 Rxd5 26.Rb1+ Kc3 27.Rxb7 Nd8 28.Rc7+ Kxd3 29.Kf1 h5 30.h3 Ke4 31.Ng5+ Kf5 32.Nxf7 Nxf7 33.Rxf7+ Bf6 34.g4+ 1/2-1/2

Patrick Byrom
16-11-2018, 01:31 PM
Ian Rogers @GMIanRogers
Sadly parting ways with @ChessLifeOnline after a decade. I declined to accept edits to my round 4 World Ch'p report which would downplay responsibility of editors of the Caruana video, downplay the effect of the video on Caruana's chances, and omit the key image from the video.His resignation has made it into 538 (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/whats-it-gonna-take-for-somebody-to-win-a-chess-game/) - although they don't name him:

Game 5 of the World Chess Championship began under a cloud. Not a literal cloud, though there were those in London, too. Rather it was the lingering hubbub of a published and deleted video. Since that video was released, a prominent chess writer resigned and, oddly, the eventís organizing body announced that it had hired a security firm that was ready to sweep for illicit electronic devices and deploy polygraphs on the players if necessary. Was the latter related to the video? To some other bit of intrigue yet to fully emerge? Or just because chessís governing body is, how do you say, filled with plenty of intrigue of its own?

MichaelBaron
17-11-2018, 09:38 AM
Re: That scandalous video: Russian chess site chess-news quoted Olimpiu Urkan thatit could be a hoax.

MichaelBaron
17-11-2018, 09:41 AM
Game 6 draw - boring chess continues. Carlsen exchanged on e5 against Petfroff.

Kevin Bonham
17-11-2018, 10:22 AM
Carlsen - Caruana.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nd3 Nxe4 5.Qe2 Qe7 6.Nf4 Nc6 7.Nd5 Nd4 8.Nxe7 Nxe2 9.Nd5 Nd4 10.Na3 Ne6 11.f3 N4c5 12.d4 Nd7 13.c3 c6 14.Nf4 Nb6 15.Bd3 d5 16.Nc2 Bd6 17.Nxe6 Bxe6 18.Kf2 h5 19.h4 Nc8 20.Ne3 Ne7 21.g3 c5 22.Bc2 0-0 23.Rd1 Rfd8 24.Ng2 cxd4 25.cxd4 Rac8 26.Bb3 Nc6 27.Bf4 Na5 28.Rdc1 Bb4 29.Bd1 Nc4 30.b3 Na3 31.Rxc8 Rxc8 32.Rc1 Nb5 33.Rxc8+ Bxc8 34.Ne3 Nc3 35.Bc2 Ba3 36.Bb8 a6 37.f4 Bd7 38.f5 Bc6 39.Bd1 Bb2 40.Bxh5 Ne4+ 41.Kg2 Bxd4 42.Bf4 Bc5 43.Bf3 Nd2 44.Bxd5 Bxe3 45.Bxc6 Bxf4 46.Bxb7 Bd6 47.Bxa6 Ne4 48.g4 Ba3 49.Bc4 Kf8 50.g5 Nc3 51.b4 Bxb4 52.Kf3 Na4 53.Bb5 Nc5 54.a4 f6 55.Kg4 Ne4 56.Kh5 Be1 57.Bd3 Nd6 58.a5 Bxa5 59.gxf6 gxf6 60.Kg6 Bd8 61.Kh7 Nf7 62.Bc4 Ne5 63.Bd5 Ba5 64.h5 Bd2 65.Ba2 Nf3 66.Bd5 Nd4 67.Kg6 Bg5 68.Bc4 Nf3 69.Kh7 Ne5 70.Bb3 Ng4 71.Bc4 Ne3 72.Bd3 Ng4 73.Bc4 Nh6 74.Kg6 Ke7 75.Bb3 Kd6 76.Bc2 Ke5 77.Bd3 Kf4 78.Bc2 Ng4 79.Bb3 Ne3 80.h6 Bxh6 1/2-1/2

This flared up to punish me for going to bed after an hour and a half, in the end it wasn't boring at all. Computers have 68...Bh4 winning for black, but the lines are extremely complex.

MichaelBaron
17-11-2018, 10:47 AM
Carlsen - Caruana.

[/pgn]

This flared up to punish me for going to bed after an hour and a half, in the end it wasn't boring at all. Computers have 68...Bh4 winning for black, but the lines are extremely complex.

I did not analyze the endgame myself but reading the comments now...apparently 68.Bh4 was still a draw somehow.

Kevin Bonham
17-11-2018, 10:56 AM
I did not analyze the endgame myself but reading the comments now...apparently 68.Bh4 was still a draw somehow.

I'm trying to find detailed comments on that. Some computers were showing -150, the question being whether there is anything that could cause them to be wrong.

MichaelBaron
17-11-2018, 11:02 AM
I'm trying to find detailed comments on that. Some computers were showing -150, the question being whether there is anything that could cause them to be wrong.

https://www.chessbomb.com/arena/2018-wcc/06-Carlsen_Magnus-Caruana_Fabiano ChessBomb after move 68 is limited to -1.42 but obviously their software/hardware is not strongest.

Kevin Bonham
17-11-2018, 11:32 AM
https://www.chessbomb.com/arena/2018-wcc/06-Carlsen_Magnus-Caruana_Fabiano ChessBomb after move 68 is limited to -1.42 but obviously their software/hardware is not strongest.

I've been running through some of the lines on Fritz 16, which also doesn't pick it as a forced win right away. Fritz 16 is however enabled with a function that shows what other computers around the world are finding, so you can follow the lines that someone has found as a win on their Stockfish 9 or whatever. After running for a while Fritz 16's evaluation of ...Bh4 has gone from -1.8 to -3.8 (which does not prove a win in the endgame by itself but other computers are soon showing -7 or -8 whatever moves I try).

As best I understand the idea it is that black gets his knight to g3 so that white has to either play Bg4 or h6 or lose a pawn. If Bg4 once white plays Kh7 black can play Kf7 and then shuffle the bishop around until white has to either play h6 or allow mate. If white does play h6 in any line then black can eventually win the h-pawn, after which the win is fairly easy.

Also there are comments that computers found mates in 30 around the key point.

Kevin Bonham
17-11-2018, 11:38 AM
Real shame this match is only 12 classical games long. Means the winner will basically be the lucky one if it is decided in classical, or else it goes to tiebreak.

Metro
17-11-2018, 11:50 AM
Real shame this match is only 12 classical games long. Means the winner will basically be the lucky one if it is decided in classical, or else it goes to tiebreak.

I have had the view for some time that it is not enough.I say try 16.

Kevin Bonham
17-11-2018, 12:41 PM
The supercomputer that was posting mate in 30 is at http://analysis.sesse.net/ . It is running Stockfish, so this explains why some sites say Sesse found a mate and some sites say Stockfish did.

Capablanca-Fan
17-11-2018, 05:33 PM
I have had the view for some time that it is not enough.I say try 16.

I agree with you.

Capablanca-Fan
17-11-2018, 05:36 PM
At this level, forget about trying to draw with K v KBN.

Kevin Bonham
17-11-2018, 05:50 PM
Ian Rogers' services have been quickly picked up by lichess (see his round 6 report https://lichess.org/blog/W--M6hAAACwA3Fti/carlsen-hangs-on-in-game-6). It sounds like his voice in the press conference telling Carlsen he was right not to believe in fortresses because there was mate in 30, but I don't know for sure.

Kevin Bonham
17-11-2018, 05:51 PM
At this level, forget about trying to draw with K v KBN.

Especially with 30 second increment.

MichaelBaron
17-11-2018, 09:18 PM
We are lucky they are not playing under the good old rules where the first player to score 6 game wins would win a match...Or else it could potentially last far longer than the Karpov-Kasparov 48-games-long epic!

Garvinator
17-11-2018, 09:32 PM
We are lucky they are not playing under the good old rules where the first player to score 6 game wins would win a match...Or else it could potentially last far longer than the Karpov-Kasparov 48-games-long epic!

Need to be a bit careful about making statements such as this. As has been discussed quite a lot during these classical world championship matches over 12 games, it is clear that the 12 game length is having a large impact on the players willingness to take any risks to try and win a game in case they lose one game and fall behind.

With the match only being 12 games, losing one game could be fatal to the whole match. In a 24 game match, or first to six wins, losing one game would just be an annoyance.

Garvinator
17-11-2018, 09:38 PM
Whilst the new regime is clearing out a lot of dead wood and making changes, quite a lot of them good changes it seems, such as the Women's World Championship cycle, I think this World Championship Match could be improved on in two areas.

1) Longer match- which we have all said would improve the contest and has been remarked before. The rebuttal that a longer match takes too long to hold really does not hold much water with the amount of interest there is in the match. Also I think the format could be improved in point 2 that could help.

2) Currently, as we are seeing right now, the match involves two games, rest day, rinse repeat and then across games six and seven, one player gets two whites to balance the white after a rest day advantage in the match.

I think this could be gotten rid of is the match was played as three games then a rest day. So it went. WBW - rest day - BWB - rest day WBW rest day BWB

Then there is no two games of the same colour in a row. And then this would also allow a longer match to be played as a couple of rest days are cut out. It is common in GM tournaments to play 3 games in a row then rest day.

Kevin Bonham
17-11-2018, 10:12 PM
In a 24 game match, or first to six wins, losing one game would just be an annoyance.

Though with the increased rate of draws at top level whatever the format it would probably take something like 30 games on average for someone to reach six wins between two evenly matched players anyway.

ElevatorEscapee
17-11-2018, 11:41 PM
Carlsen - Caruana.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nd3 Nxe4 5.Qe2 Qe7 6.Nf4 Nc6 7.Nd5 Nd4 8.Nxe7 Nxe2 9.Nd5 Nd4 10.Na3 Ne6 11.f3 N4c5 12.d4 Nd7 13.c3 c6 14.Nf4 Nb6 15.Bd3 d5 16.Nc2 Bd6 17.Nxe6 Bxe6 18.Kf2 h5 19.h4 Nc8 20.Ne3 Ne7 21.g3 c5 22.Bc2 0-0 23.Rd1 Rfd8 24.Ng2 cxd4 25.cxd4 Rac8 26.Bb3 Nc6 27.Bf4 Na5 28.Rdc1 Bb4 29.Bd1 Nc4 30.b3 Na3 31.Rxc8 Rxc8 32.Rc1 Nb5 33.Rxc8+ Bxc8 34.Ne3 Nc3 35.Bc2 Ba3 36.Bb8 a6 37.f4 Bd7 38.f5 Bc6 39.Bd1 Bb2 40.Bxh5 Ne4+ 41.Kg2 Bxd4 42.Bf4 Bc5 43.Bf3 Nd2 44.Bxd5 Bxe3 45.Bxc6 Bxf4 46.Bxb7 Bd6 47.Bxa6 Ne4 48.g4 Ba3 49.Bc4 Kf8 50.g5 Nc3 51.b4 Bxb4 52.Kf3 Na4 53.Bb5 Nc5 54.a4 f6 55.Kg4 Ne4 56.Kh5 Be1 57.Bd3 Nd6 58.a5 Bxa5 59.gxf6 gxf6 60.Kg6 Bd8 61.Kh7 Nf7 62.Bc4 Ne5 63.Bd5 Ba5 64.h5 Bd2 65.Ba2 Nf3 66.Bd5 Nd4 67.Kg6 Bg5 68.Bc4 Nf3 69.Kh7 Ne5 70.Bb3 Ng4 71.Bc4 Ne3 72.Bd3 Ng4 73.Bc4 Nh6 74.Kg6 Ke7 75.Bb3 Kd6 76.Bc2 Ke5 77.Bd3 Kf4 78.Bc2 Ng4 79.Bb3 Ne3 80.h6 Bxh6 1/2-1/2

This flared up to punish me for going to bed after an hour and a half, in the end it wasn't boring at all. Computers have 68...Bh4 winning for black, but the lines are extremely complex.

Wow! Caruana played a Petroff Defence! That must have come as a surprise to Carlsen! ;)

Desmond
18-11-2018, 07:54 AM
Need to be a bit careful about making statements such as this. As has been discussed quite a lot during these classical world championship matches over 12 games, it is clear that the 12 game length is having a large impact on the players willingness to take any risks to try and win a game in case they lose one game and fall behind.

With the match only being 12 games, losing one game could be fatal to the whole match. In a 24 game match, or first to six wins, losing one game would just be an annoyance.

There isn't much incentive to try to win. Even the challenger doesn't have to win a game until the rapids, he can just draw his way through and take his chances in the skittles. Cash incentives for wins would change behaviour I reckon.

Ian Rout
18-11-2018, 10:46 AM
Cash incentives for wins would change behaviour I reckon.Unlikely, even if the win bonus was so large as to make it worth financially more than maximising the chance of taking the title. In any case the world championship comes with earning opportunities down the line, including playing the next match.

The reality is that chess has three realistic outcomes and it isn't easy to beat a player of this standard, even if you're the same standard yourself. We saw most recently in Biel and St Louis that even against slightly lesser opposition Carlsen can't just produce wins to order.

Obviously the short match, among other inadequacies, discourages risk-taking. Nevertheless Games 1 and 6 produced positions with the potential to be decisive, and Game 5 was hardly uneventful. In terms of things happening that's a mid-range sort of strike rate for the first half of a World Championship.

Desmond
18-11-2018, 11:03 AM
Unlikely, even if the win bonus was so large as to make it worth financially more than maximising the chance of taking the title. In any case the world championship comes with earning opportunities down the line, including playing the next match.
Well the match has to end decisively one way or another. Either you take a chance in the classical, or in the skittles. If the classical had a cash bonus attached, might be something they'd think about.

antichrist
18-11-2018, 11:59 AM
Well the match has to end decisively one way or another. Either you take a chance in the classical, or in the skittles. If the classical had a cash bonus attached, might be something they'd think about.

This could be overcome by making the world championship a swiss format affair with many entrants and many rounds and countback - I know it won't happen.

ElevatorEscapee
18-11-2018, 12:39 PM
This could be overcome by making the world championship a swiss format affair with many entrants and many rounds and countback - I know it won't happen.

Maybe you know it won't happen because you know it is a stupid idea! (Not that THAT would prevent FIDE from implementing it!)

Edit - by the way, this must be the only thread on Chesschat that has posts from both "Terminator" & "Garvinator"!

Kevin Bonham
18-11-2018, 01:09 PM
Edit - by the way, this must be the only thread on Chesschat that has posts from both "Terminator" & "Garvinator"!

It sort-of is and sort-of isn't. Garvinator posted on the only other thread Terminator posted on but that was not his username at the time.

antichrist
18-11-2018, 03:18 PM
Maybe you know it won't happen because you know it is a stupid idea! (Not that THAT would prevent FIDE from implementing it!)...


So are the Aussie championships held in a stupid manner? Not that THAT would prevent intelligent players from participating.

Kevin Bonham
18-11-2018, 03:57 PM
So are the Aussie championships held in a stupid manner?

It's a matter of scale. It might be nice to hold the Aus champs in a similar format with qualifiers, a candidates' tournament and a match but the prizemoney to make the preliminary stages viable and ensure they attracted the right players wouldn't exist; it could also be difficult to find organisers. These constraints do not apply at World Champs levels. Can't think of any country offhand that runs its national champs along World Champs lines. Every country I can think of offhand uses either round robins or swisses, not because it is the best system but because it is what is most practical at national level.

antichrist
18-11-2018, 04:53 PM
It's a matter of scale. It might be nice to hold the Aus champs in a similar format with qualifiers, a candidates' tournament and a match but the prizemoney to make the preliminary stages viable and ensure they attracted the right players wouldn't exist; it could also be difficult to find organisers. These constraints do not apply at World Champs levels. Can't think of any country offhand that runs its national champs along World Champs lines. Every country I can think of offhand uses either round robins or swisses, not because it is the best system but because it is what is most practical at national level.

I was attempting to make the point that to make the World Championships more exciting and interesting chess that it follow Swiss Format as many national championships are held not vice versa. I presume that Swiss would be less advantageous for games to be thrown than Round Robin though may not be the case.

Wouldn't Swiss make draws very unattractive?

Kevin Bonham
18-11-2018, 05:20 PM
I was attempting to make the point that to make the World Championships more exciting and interesting chess that it follow Swiss Format as many national championships are held not vice versa.

The goal of making the WC more exciting is less important than the goal of preventing it from being decided by vagaries involving third players. I mentioned this before - someone shouldn't be World Champion because they beat some player not in the title race when that player was just having a bad day. Better if they become World Champion by beating the incumbent one-on-one, even if by getting lucky in a closely-fought match.

Also FIDE tried Swisses in the Grand Prix tournaments and some of them were very boring tournaments full of draws. The Swiss system does not work properly when most of the games are draws.

MichaelBaron
19-11-2018, 01:28 AM
11 moves have been played in game 7 so far. Hoping that Carlsen will opt for 12.0-0-0 followed up by g4 and a bloody battle will unfold!

Kevin Bonham
19-11-2018, 02:07 AM
11 moves have been played in game 7 so far. Hoping that Carlsen will opt for 12.0-0-0 followed up by g4 and a bloody battle will unfold!

He seems to just want to play boring quiet stuff with white. Didn't do him any good in game 6.

MichaelBaron
19-11-2018, 10:27 AM
Yes, usual boring from Caruana and lack of fire from Carlsen. May be if he does lose his title due to losing a single game at some point, its good for his chess. He will be re-born like Kramnik.

Kevin Bonham
19-11-2018, 10:30 AM
Game 7

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.c4 e6 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Bf4 0-0 6.e3 c5 7.dxc5 Bxc5 8.Qc2 Nc6 9.a3 Qa5 10.Nd2 Qd8 11.Nb3 Bb6 12.Be2 Qe7 13.Bg5 dxc4 14.Nd2 Ne5 15.0-0 Bd7 16.Bf4 Ng6 17.Bg3 Bc6 18.Nxc4 Bc7 19.Rfd1 Rfd8 20.Rxd8+ Rxd8 21.Rd1 Rxd1+ 22.Qxd1 Nd5 23.Qd4 Nxc3 24.Qxc3 Bxg3 25.hxg3 Qd7 26.Bd3 b6 27.f3 Bb7 28.Bxg6 hxg6 29.e4 Qc7 30.e5 Qc5+ 31.Kh2 Ba6 32.Nd6 Qxc3 33.bxc3 f6 34.f4 Kf8 35.Kg1 Ke7 36.Kf2 Kd7 37.Ke3 Bf1 38.Kf2 Ba6 39.Ke3 Bf1 40.Kf2 Ba6 1/2-1/2

Garvinator
19-11-2018, 11:33 AM
Carlsen in a lot of these matches has been well known for avoiding long theoretical battles and also avoiding complicated lines and instead trying to accumulate small advantages and grind the opponent down, both in one game, but also taking this approach over successive games.

So his avoiding of the above should not have come as a surprise to many. The ability to gain an advantage in some gains and press for a decent advantage in some games is a bit of a surprise. But we are only at game 7.

But I will go back to some of my early comments. If this was a 24 game match, starting the match with 7 draws would be seen as building the tension and a feeling out process, testing each others preparation, who can find a weakness in the others openings etc etc, rather than what we are commenting on now, which is, someone needs to win a game to avoid the tie breaks.

Metro
19-11-2018, 11:45 AM
someone needs to win a game to avoid the tie breaks.
Caruana needs to win a game to avoid the quick games.Magnus is one of the best quick players in the world.

MichaelBaron
19-11-2018, 12:27 PM
Caruana needs to win a game to avoid the quick games.Magnus is one of the best quick players in the world.

True but the irony is that if it all comes down to 4 games only and Magnus is hot favourite to win...anything can happen. He can fall apart under pressure. I think Magnus does hope to win at least 1. As I've written previously, missing a win in game 1 defined the entire match!

Ian Rout
19-11-2018, 01:41 PM
True but the irony is that if it all comes down to 4 games only and Magnus is hot favourite to win...anything can happen. He can fall apart under pressure. I think Magnus does hope to win at least 1. As I've written previously, missing a win in game 1 defined the entire match!It looks like Carlsen's strategy has been to threaten a tie-break, with the idea that simply looking like he wants one will prompt Caruana to over-press.

Seeing that the Rossolimo hasn't really troubled Carlsen it will be interesting to see if Caruana goes with 3.d4 tonight. Or maybe Carlsen will pre-empt him and diverge earlier.

MichaelBaron
19-11-2018, 10:00 PM
It looks like Carlsen's strategy has been to threaten a tie-break, with the idea that simply looking like he wants one will prompt Caruana to over-press.

Seeing that the Rossolimo hasn't really troubled Carlsen it will be interesting to see if Caruana goes with 3.d4 tonight. Or maybe Carlsen will pre-empt him and diverge earlier.

Caruana is actually used to playing d4 in important games..so why not..e4 is more like part of his anti-magnus strategy... right or wrong.

Desmond
20-11-2018, 07:22 AM
8th game also a draw.

MichaelBaron
20-11-2018, 10:16 AM
8th game also a draw.

At one point, Magnus's position looked very suspicious.

Kevin Bonham
20-11-2018, 10:38 AM
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 6.Ndb5 d6 7.Nd5 Nxd5 8.exd5 Nb8 9.a4 Be7 10.Be2 0-0 11.0-0 Nd7 12.Bd2 f5 13.a5 a6 14.Na3 e4 15.Nc4 Ne5 16.Nb6 Rb8 17.f4 exf3 18.Bxf3 g5 19.c4 f4 20.Bc3 Bf5 21.c5 Nxf3+ 22.Qxf3 dxc5 23.Rad1 Bd6 24.h3 Qe8 25.Nc4 Qg6 26.Nxd6 Qxd6 27.h4 gxh4 28.Qxf4 Qxf4 29.Rxf4 h5 30.Re1 Bg4 31.Rf6 Rxf6 32.Bxf6 Kf7 33.Bxh4 Re8 34.Rf1+ Kg8 35.Rf6 Re2 36.Rg6+ Kf8 37.d6 Rd2 38.Rg5 1/2-1/2

Caruana spent 33 minutes finding the excellent 21.c5! but then wimped out with 24.h3 (24.Qh5 is winning but very complex).

Kevin Bonham
20-11-2018, 02:44 PM
“I suck at chess, only a bit less than the others.” - Carlsen quote relayed by Ian Rogers (https://lichess.org/blog/W_NcwhAAACcA1C5W/caruana-piles-on-the-pressure-but-fails-to-break-carlsen)

MichaelBaron
20-11-2018, 04:38 PM
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 6.Ndb5 d6 7.Nd5 Nxd5 8.exd5 Nb8 9.a4 Be7 10.Be2 0-0 11.0-0 Nd7 12.Bd2 f5 13.a5 a6 14.Na3 e4 15.Nc4 Ne5 16.Nb6 Rb8 17.f4 exf3 18.Bxf3 g5 19.c4 f4 20.Bc3 Bf5 21.c5 Nxf3+ 22.Qxf3 dxc5 23.Rad1 Bd6 24.h3 Qe8 25.Nc4 Qg6 26.Nxd6 Qxd6 27.h4 gxh4 28.Qxf4 Qxf4 29.Rxf4 h5 30.Re1 Bg4 31.Rf6 Rxf6 32.Bxf6 Kf7 33.Bxh4 Re8 34.Rf1+ Kg8 35.Rf6 Re2 36.Rg6+ Kf8 37.d6 Rd2 38.Rg5 1/2-1/2

Caruana spent 33 minutes finding the excellent 21.c5! but then wimped out with 24.h3 (24.Qh5 is winning but very complex).

Even computers kept having ''change of mind'' about Qh5 so even if played, would not guarantee a win without further accurate continuations.

MichaelBaron
22-11-2018, 02:46 AM
Game 9 - looks like Carlsen finally obtained kind of opening position he wanted.

God
22-11-2018, 04:24 AM
Looks like game 9 is going to be a draw. But at least I learnt from Alexander Grischuk that Magnus once elbowed him in the nuts playing basketball.

ElevatorEscapee
22-11-2018, 07:25 AM
Carlsen v Caruana, Game 9
1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. g3 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. Bg2 Bc5 7. O-O O-O 8. d3 Re8 9. Bg5 Nxc3 10. bxc3 f6 11. Bc1 Be6 12. Bb2 Bb6 13. d4 Bd5 14. Qc2 exd4 15. cxd4 Be4 16. Qb3+ Bd5 17. Qd1 Bxf3 18. Qb3+ Kh8 19. Bxf3 Nxd4 20. Bxd4 Qxd4 21. e3 Qe5 22. Bxb7 Rad8 23. Rad1 Qe7 24. h4 g6 25. h5 gxh5 26. Qc4 f5 27. Bf3 h4 28. Rxd8 Rxd8 29. gxh4 Rg8+ 30. Kh1 Qf6 31. Qf4 Bc5 32. Rg1 Rxg1+ 33. Kxg1 Bd6 34. Qa4 f4 35. Qxa7 fxe3 36. Qxe3 Qxh4 37. a4 Qf6 38. Bd1 Qe5 39. Qxe5+ Bxe5 40. a5 Kg7 41. a6 Bd4 42. Kg2 Kf6 43. f4 Bb6 44. Kf3 h6 45. Ke4 Ba7 46. Bg4 Bg1 47. Kd5 Bb6 48. Kc6 Be3 49. Kb7 Bb6 50. Bh3 Be3 51. Kc6 Bb6 52. Kd5 Ba7 53. Ke4 Bb6 54. Bf1 Ke6 55. Bc4+ Kf6 56. Bd3 Ke6 1/2-1/2

Carlsen was criticised for his lack of patience with 25.h5.

He later sated that he "blew it".

MichaelBaron
22-11-2018, 11:08 AM
Carlsen v Caruana, Game 9
1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. g3 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. Bg2 Bc5 7. O-O O-O 8. d3 Re8 9. Bg5 Nxc3 10. bxc3 f6 11. Bc1 Be6 12. Bb2 Bb6 13. d4 Bd5 14. Qc2 exd4 15. cxd4 Be4 16. Qb3+ Bd5 17. Qd1 Bxf3 18. Qb3+ Kh8 19. Bxf3 Nxd4 20. Bxd4 Qxd4 21. e3 Qe5 22. Bxb7 Rad8 23. Rad1 Qe7 24. h4 g6 25. h5 gxh5 26. Qc4 f5 27. Bf3 h4 28. Rxd8 Rxd8 29. gxh4 Rg8+ 30. Kh1 Qf6 31. Qf4 Bc5 32. Rg1 Rxg1+ 33. Kxg1 Bd6 34. Qa4 f4 35. Qxa7 fxe3 36. Qxe3 Qxh4 37. a4 Qf6 38. Bd1 Qe5 39. Qxe5+ Bxe5 40. a5 Kg7 41. a6 Bd4 42. Kg2 Kf6 43. f4 Bb6 44. Kf3 h6 45. Ke4 Ba7 46. Bg4 Bg1 47. Kd5 Bb6 48. Kc6 Be3 49. Kb7 Bb6 50. Bh3 Be3 51. Kc6 Bb6 52. Kd5 Ba7 53. Ke4 Bb6 54. Bf1 Ke6 55. Bc4+ Kf6 56. Bd3 Ke6 1/2-1/2

Carlsen was criticised for his lack of patience with 25.h5.

He later sated that he "blew it".
Yes, he should have sustained the pressure. Even without h5, does not look like white is winning but it would be long term pressure and Magnus used to be merciless in converting such positions.

antichrist
22-11-2018, 01:33 PM
Looks like game 9 is going to be a draw. But at least I learnt from Alexander Grischuk that Magnus once elbowed him in the nuts playing basketball.

what shocked me was seeing a video of Magnus' dad throwing him soccer balls for him to head - struth the skull and brain have not evolved to sustain such. The medical authorities are conducting studies into the long term damage it causes. Hope they quit that habit.

Garvinator
22-11-2018, 03:41 PM
Poll options for win by four or more games can be scratched

Garvinator
22-11-2018, 03:48 PM
I think the length of the match (12 games, then rapid, blitz, armageddon) is having an effect on quite a lot of the commentary, including mine, and with sometimes good reason.

In the 1995 match between Kasparov and Anand, they started with 8 draws, and we do not mention that match as a draw fest in recalling history. And the 1984 match between Karpov and Kasparov also started with a lot of draws. And many other matches started with many draws, sprinkled with one win and then another lot of draws.

But the factor with those matches is that the match length was over 20 games, or first to 6 wins, so 8 draws to start and then wins came were not such a factor.

But in this match, just like the last match against Karjakin, there is a feeling that both players could be looking to go to the rapids now, rather than attempting to win this match in the classical section, which is hated by all and sundry.

Looking all nine games so far, almost all of them have been well contested, reasonably hard fought and in some games the general commentary has been had one player taken their opportunities they could have put a win against their name. So it is not a case after nine games that most of the games have been a draw bore, which has been an accusation right thrown at some matches of the past in some games.

ER
22-11-2018, 04:08 PM
... And the 1984 match between Karpov and Kasparov also started with a lot of draws... l

Hardly! in the first 9 games Karpov had already scored four times!

Garvinator
22-11-2018, 04:49 PM
Hardly! in the first 9 games Karpov had already scored four times!
Correct, my bad. See, draw talk is affecting result recollection :P

MichaelBaron
22-11-2018, 05:04 PM
All 12 games drawn...is becoming quite a possibility. Ironically, while he is a better rapid player...I think it is Magnus who is getting more frustrated by all those draws.

Capablanca-Fan
22-11-2018, 05:11 PM
Correct, my bad. See, draw talk is affecting result recollection :P

Not surprising: that match was played before either of the current players was born.

Max Illingworth
22-11-2018, 05:21 PM
It makes you wonder why one wastes three weeks of valuable time instead of starting with the real decider - the rapids.

Andrew Hardegen
22-11-2018, 05:24 PM
Caruana has White in 2 of the 3 remaining classical games.

I am predicting two more draws, and then a win for Caruana in Game 12.

ER
23-11-2018, 02:27 AM
what shocked me was seeing a video of Magnus' dad throwing him soccer balls for him to head - struth the skull and brain have not evolved to sustain such. The medical authorities are conducting studies into the long term damage it causes. Hope they quit that habit.

You jinxed the guy look what happened to him playing bloody soccer hours before yesterday's game! Talking about coincidences, unless you wanna claim prophetic power (Not that I would be surprised if you did)

3695

Before we published Magnus's picture the following exchange of messages with London WCC media centre's Niki Riga took place:
Elliott Hi Niki, could I please use one of your Magnus's pictures for a comment on the Australian Chess Forum Chesschat? Of course it will be credited! Cheers and thanks in advance! E.
Niki Riga Hello! Yes, you can use them.
If you need them in higher resolution, just let me know!
ElliottL thanks Niki you are a legend! the resolution is perfect as is! Thank you and the team from the great land of Oz!
Chat conversation end

antichrist
23-11-2018, 06:27 AM
You jinxed the guy look what happened to him playing bloody soccer hours before yesterday's game! Talking about coincidences, unless you wanna claim prophetic power (Not that I would be surprised if you did)

3695

Before we published Magnus's picture the following exchange of messages with London WCC media centre's Niki Riga took place:
Elliott Hi Niki, could I please use one of your Magnus's pictures for a comment on the Australian Chess Forum Chesschat? Of course it will be credited! Cheers and thanks in advance! E.
Niki Riga Hello! Yes, you can use them.
If you need them in higher resolution, just let me know!
ElliottL thanks Niki you are a legend! the resolution is perfect as is! Thank you and the team from the great land of Oz!
Chat conversation end

I would call that three close shaves

ElevatorEscapee
23-11-2018, 06:53 AM
Game 10 drawn after 54 moves.

Apparently Carlsen took a risk with 23... Qg5!? Caruana had a chance for advantage with 24.Bxb5, but chose the safer 24.g3 instead.

BlairMandla
23-11-2018, 08:11 AM
If this goes 12 draws, chess will need to borrow some ideas from Tennis.
5 sets of 3 games, tiebreakers if drawn 1.5-1.5, and of course the winner is the person who wins three sets.
Defending champion receives the additional white game if sets are tied 2-2 going into the final set.

Kevin Bonham
23-11-2018, 11:53 AM
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 6.Ndb5 d6 7.Nd5 Nxd5 8.exd5 Nb8 9.a4 Be7 10.Be2 0-0 11.0-0 Nd7 12.b4 a6 13.Na3 a5 14.bxa5 Rxa5 15.Nc4 Ra8 16.Be3 f5 17.a5 f4 18.Bb6 Qe8 19.Ra3 Qg6 20.Bc7 e4 21.Kh1 b5 22.Nb6 Nxb6 23.Bxb6 Qg5 24.g3 b4 25.Rb3 Bh3 26.Rg1 f3 27.Bf1 Bxf1 28.Qxf1 Qxd5 29.Rxb4 Qe6 30.Rb5 Bd8 31.Qe1 Bxb6 32.axb6 Rab8 33.Qe3 Qc4 34.Rb2 Rb7 35.Rd1 Qe2 36.Re1 Qxe3 37.Rxe3 d5 38.h4 Rc8 39.Ra3 Kf7 40.Kh2 Ke6 41.g4 Rc6 42.Ra6 Ke5 43.Kg3 h6 44.h5 Kd4 45.Rb5 Rd6 46.Ra4+ Ke5 47.Rab4 Ke6 48.c4 dxc4 49.Rxc4 Rdxb6 50.Rxe4+ Kf7 51.Rf5+ Rf6 52.Rxf6+ Kxf6 53.Kxf3 Kf7 54.Kg3 1/2-1/2

MichaelBaron
23-11-2018, 02:05 PM
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 6.Ndb5 d6 7.Nd5 Nxd5 8.exd5 Nb8 9.a4 Be7 10.Be2 0-0 11.0-0 Nd7 12.b4 a6 13.Na3 a5 14.bxa5 Rxa5 15.Nc4 Ra8 16.Be3 f5 17.a5 f4 18.Bb6 Qe8 19.Ra3 Qg6 20.Bc7 e4 21.Kh1 b5 22.Nb6 Nxb6 23.Bxb6 Qg5 24.g3 b4 25.Rb3 Bh3 26.Rg1 f3 27.Bf1 Bxf1 28.Qxf1 Qxd5 29.Rxb4 Qe6 30.Rb5 Bd8 31.Qe1 Bxb6 32.axb6 Rab8 33.Qe3 Qc4 34.Rb2 Rb7 35.Rd1 Qe2 36.Re1 Qxe3 37.Rxe3 d5 38.h4 Rc8 39.Ra3 Kf7 40.Kh2 Ke6 41.g4 Rc6 42.Ra6 Ke5 43.Kg3 h6 44.h5 Kd4 45.Rb5 Rd6 46.Ra4+ Ke5 47.Rab4 Ke6 48.c4 dxc4 49.Rxc4 Rdxb6 50.Rxe4+ Kf7 51.Rf5+ Rf6 52.Rxf6+ Kxf6 53.Kxf3 Kf7 54.Kg3 1/2-1/2

Finally an interesting battle :):clap:

antichrist
23-11-2018, 03:25 PM
Finally an interesting battle :):clap:

You could not see possible win with the extra pawn - I have forgotten the fine stuff?

Garvinator
23-11-2018, 03:40 PM
6.5 - 4.5 is now toast

Garvinator
23-11-2018, 03:56 PM
Now with two games remaining in the classical section, how are the chesschat predictions going?

ER, isage and my two game win prediction to Carlsen 6.5 - 4.5 just went face down in the porridge.

Next up are Shaun94 with a two game win to Caruana (7-5) and bundy's bro, Capablanca-Fan, Michael Baron with Carlsen two game win (7-5). So these betters need a win in game eleven by their man to keep their hopes alive.

If their man does win in game eleven, a follow up win in game twelve is not unrealistic as the opponent will require a win to keep the match alive, so will most likely be throwing the toys, kitchen sink and anything else at the game, increasing the odds of both winning and losing the game.

If there is a draw in game eleven, all four are finished.

Then that leaves Caruana win by one classical game (6.5-5.5) george and road runner and Carlsen win by one classical game (6.5-5.5) Ian Rout, junior and Kevin Bonham. As is a well known fact here in chesschat polls, whatever Kevin predicts loses, bad luck for Ian and junior. So based on past form, no one game win for Carlsen in this match ;)

And then off to the playoffs:

Garrett, Max Illingworth and thomasdev predicted a Carlsen playoff win.

The bookies could not get any takers for a Caruana playoff win. Did the punters know about Caruana's terrible rapid and blitz ratings compared to Carlsen's? But of course, now based on past chesschat polls, Caruana is favourite in the playoff because no one backed him :P

ER
23-11-2018, 05:11 PM
ER isage and my two game win prediction to Carlsen 6.5 - 4.5 just went face down in the porridge.

Hold on a sec chief! look at this:


09-11-2018, 01:53 PM
Ι change my prediction.
Magnus wins by 2 pts.
Magnus 7 - 5 Fabiano.
That's because I am not sure about the "dead rubber" situation
in the case of 6.5 - 4.5 which I initially predicted!

Which a few hours later I stupidly "corrected" to


09-11-2018, 09:53 PM
OK now, I understood it (took me some bloody time ) First who reaches 6.5 pts wins!

But you don't have to dob me in! I don' think anyone noticed anyway! :D :P

Frank
23-11-2018, 09:27 PM
Game 5 started out wild but it didn't go anywhere.



GM David Smerdon comments: (http://davidsmerdon.com/?p=2061)

Caruana played the quirky gambit 6.b4!? in the Rossolimo Sicilian. This is a forgotten gambit from the 1960s that I strongly advocated back in 2013 when I was writing for the website ChessPublishing.com. I wrote a couple of articles about it, expecting it to catch on, but alas, like so much of online chess analysis, it remained dormant.

It would therefore of course have been a great personal retribution if Caruana had won a swashbuckling World Championship victory using this line. Again, alas, it was not to be: Carlsen diffused the pressure with apparent ease and the game fizzled into the match’s fifth straight draw. Annoyed, I searched through my personal notes about this line, digging through my old files from the days when I studied chess seriously (pre-baby!). It turns out that Carlsen is more or less correct in that his play should lead to a draw, though Caruana could have applied much more pressure. My analysis stretches to an endgame on move 23 (did I really spend so much time on chess?!) when I concluded that “White has a small but durable endgame advantage”.

Kevin Bonham
25-11-2018, 03:42 AM
Game 11 Carlsen - Caruana

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Nc3 Nxc3 6.dxc3 Be7 7.Be3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nd7 9.0-0-0 Nf6 10.Bd3 c5 11.Rhe1 Be6 12.Kb1 Qa5 13.c4 Qxd2 14.Bxd2 h6 15.Nh4 Rfe8 16.Ng6 Ng4 17.Nxe7+ Rxe7 18.Re2 Ne5 19.Bf4 Nxd3 20.Rxd3 Rd7 21.Rxd6 Rxd6 22.Bxd6 Rd8 23.Rd2 Bxc4 24.Kc1 b6 25.Bf4 Rxd2 26.Kxd2 a6 27.a3 Kf8 28.Bc7 b5 29.Bd6+ Ke8 30.Bxc5 h5 31.Ke3 Kd7 32.Kd4 g6 33.g3 Be2 34.Bf8 Kc6 35.b3 Bd1 36.Kd3 Bg4 37.c4 Be6 38.Kd4 bxc4 39.bxc4 Bg4 40.c5 Be6 41.Bh6 Bd5 42.Be3 Be6 43.Ke5 Bd5 44.Kf4 Be6 45.Kg5 Bd5 46.g4 hxg4 47.Kxg4 Ba2 48.Kg5 Bb3 49.Kf6 Ba2 50.h4 Bb3 51.f4 Ba2 52.Ke7 Bb3 53.Kf6 Ba2 54.f5 Bb1 55.Bf2 Bc2 1/2-1/2

MichaelBaron
25-11-2018, 11:16 AM
If game 12 is a draw...this is will be the first WCC match ever with all games drawn...

Desmond
25-11-2018, 11:51 AM
If game 12 is a draw...this is will be the first WCC match ever with all games drawn...

I think someone mentioned earlier in this thread that there are 3 possible outcomes to a game. Maybe someone should tell the players that.

Desmond
26-11-2018, 07:42 AM
Rest day after only 1 day's play. :rolleyes:

MichaelBaron
26-11-2018, 07:40 PM
Rest day after only 1 day's play. :rolleyes:

won't be surprised if they are resting not to get to exhausted by another quick draw...anyway...if this is the case - rapid games are on the way and they will be more fun to watch.

ER
27-11-2018, 01:18 AM
Talking about preparation … Magnus started with 1:40 on his clock and now after 12moves his time is 1:45 :P :D

ER
27-11-2018, 01:24 AM
Don't tell me they began repeating on move 14!!!

MichaelBaron
27-11-2018, 01:29 AM
Computers do not like Magnus's position..but I suspect it is fine..given speed of his play!

MichaelBaron
27-11-2018, 01:30 AM
Don't tell me they began repeating on move 14!!!

At least Magnus had guts for 15.Be3 rather than Qa4

ER
27-11-2018, 02:03 AM
OK good to see both of them going for it now! :) Do you think time trouble could be a problem in such a complicated position? Fabiano is more than half an hour behind on move 16!

Capablanca-Fan
27-11-2018, 02:32 AM
Talking about preparation Ö Magnus started with 1:40 on his clock and now after 12moves his time is 1:45 :P :D

It's notable that Caruana has not tried to exploit the ostensible d5 weakness of the La Bourdonnais Ė Sveshnikov variation.

Kevin Bonham
27-11-2018, 04:18 AM
Lame draw offer. Maybe for World Champs games they should ban draw offers before move 50.

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 6.Ndb5 d6 7.Nd5 Nxd5 8.exd5 Ne7 9.c4 Ng6 10.Qa4 Bd7 11.Qb4 Bf5 12.h4 h5 13.Qa4 Bd7 14.Qb4 Bf5 15.Be3 a6 16.Nc3 Qc7 17.g3 Be7 18.f3 Nf8 19.Ne4 Nd7 20.Bd3 0-0 21.Rh2 Rac8 22.0-0-0 Bg6 23.Rc2 f5 24.Nf2 Nc5 25.f4 a5 26.Qd2 e4 27.Be2 Be8 28.Kb1 Bf6 29.Re1 a4 30.Qb4 g6 31.Rd1 Ra8 1/2-1/2

Capablanca-Fan
27-11-2018, 06:03 AM
All 12 classical games drawn, although most with a decent fight. This is not totally surprising given their very similar ratings (https://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men), 3 points apart. Now Carlsen must be the favorite because his rapid rating (https://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men_rapid) is almost 100 points higher, and blitz (https://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men_blitz) 72 points higher.

Blunderbuss
27-11-2018, 08:12 AM
Shocking draw offer .... https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1067125702712004609

MichaelBaron
27-11-2018, 10:25 AM
The draw offer in the final position was indeed surprising - hard for black to break through but coming from a fighter like Carlsen - strange to see him offering a draw in a better position.

Patrick Byrom
27-11-2018, 02:06 PM
The draw offer in the final position was indeed surprising - hard for black to break through but coming from a fighter like Carlsen - strange to see him offering a draw in a better position.Yes - it was looking very interesting, but good for Carlsen, when I went to bed. I'm glad I didn't stay up to watch the finish, only to be 'rewarded' with a quick draw.

Kevin Bonham
27-11-2018, 02:43 PM
I love this - top computers will play a 2RR from the final position:

https://www.chess.com/news/view/computer-chess-championship-to-play-out-caruana-carlsen-game-12

Vlad
27-11-2018, 05:30 PM
Shocking draw offer .... https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1067125702712004609

Sheldon Fernandez replying to @Kasparov63

I recall a similar situation in gm 19 of your 90 WC match (draw offer with a better position and clock).

You remarked at the time how difficult it was to switch to a winning mindset having started the game with the intent of making a draw.

How analogous is this situation?

pappubahry
27-11-2018, 10:06 PM
I love this - top computers will play a 2RR from the final position:

https://www.chess.com/news/view/computer-chess-championship-to-play-out-caruana-carlsen-game-12

Stockfish just beat Laser with White!

Kevin Bonham
27-11-2018, 11:20 PM
Stockfish just beat Laser with White!

306 point rating difference. Wonder if Caruana with white would have beaten or even tried to beat a c. 2500 player from that position.

Kevin Bonham
27-11-2018, 11:32 PM
Note the format is not the same as for the Women's. It is:

* Four rapids (25/10)

* If still tied up to five 2-game blitz matches (5/3). If at any stage a player wins a 2-game match they win the title.

* If still tied Armageddon 5 vs 4, 3 secs/move from move 61.

10 minute break between games.

MichaelBaron
28-11-2018, 12:18 AM
306 point rating difference. Wonder if Caruana with white would have beaten or even tried to beat a c. 2500 player from that position.

If black wants a draw in that position.. he can just do nothing and laugh at white's efforts manoovering around.

MichaelBaron
28-11-2018, 08:13 PM
It is quite likely that the players will continue to play conservatively throughout the tie-breaks.

Kevin Bonham
28-11-2018, 11:47 PM
I love this - top computers will play a 2RR from the final position:

https://www.chess.com/news/view/computer-chess-championship-to-play-out-caruana-carlsen-game-12

Score from the first half of the 2RR was +2=13-13.

MichaelBaron
29-11-2018, 01:09 AM
Wow Game 1 of Rapid: ''Proper chess'' has commenced!

Kevin Bonham
29-11-2018, 02:18 AM
Carlsen - Caruana tiebreak 1. Seems 37...Kxe4 was losing and 37...Ra2+ heading for capturing the f-pawn with the rook holds.

1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3 Bb4 4.e4 0-0 5.Nge2 c6 6.Bg2 a6 7.0-0 b5 8.d4 d6 9.a3 Bxc3 10.Nxc3 bxc4 11.dxe5 dxe5 12.Na4 Be6 13.Qxd8 Rxd8 14.Be3 Nbd7 15.f3 Rab8 16.Rac1 Rb3 17.Rfe1 Ne8 18.Bf1 Nd6 19.Rcd1 Nb5 20.Nc5 Rxb2 21.Nxe6 fxe6 22.Bxc4 Nd4 23.Bxd4 exd4 24.Bxe6+ Kf8 25.Rxd4 Ke7 26.Rxd7+ Rxd7 27.Bxd7 Kxd7 28.Rd1+ Ke6 29.f4 c5 30.Rd5 Rc2 31.h4 c4 32.f5+ Kf6 33.Rc5 h5 34.Kf1 Rc3 35.Kg2 Rxa3 36.Rxc4 Ke5 37.Rc7 Kxe4 38.Re7+ Kxf5 39.Rxg7 Kf6 40.Rg5 a5 41.Rxh5 a4 42.Ra5 Ra1 43.Kf3 a3 44.Ra6+ Kg7 45.Kg2 Ra2+ 46.Kh3 Ra1 47.h5 Kh7 48.g4 Kg7 49.Kh4 a2 50.Kg5 Kf7 51.h6 Rb1 52.Ra7+ Kg8 53.Rxa2 Rb5+ 54.Kg6 Rb6+ 55.Kh5 1-0

Kevin Bonham
29-11-2018, 02:26 AM
Official site has stopped working on game display again. Drop down menu for round number freezes.

[fixed after 8 minutes!]

Kevin Bonham
29-11-2018, 03:07 AM
Oh dear. Caruana - Carlsen tiebreak 2

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 6.Ndb5 d6 7.Nd5 Nxd5 8.exd5 Ne7 9.c4 Ng6 10.Qa4 Bd7 11.Qb4 Qb8 12.h4 h5 13.Be3 a6 14.Nc3 a5 15.Qb3 a4 16.Qd1 Be7 17.g3 Qc8 18.Be2 Bg4 19.Rc1 Bxe2 20.Qxe2 Qf5 21.c5 0-0 22.c6 bxc6 23.dxc6 Rfc8 24.Qc4 Bd8 25.Nd5 e4 26.c7 Bxc7 27.Nxc7 Ne5 28.Nd5 Kh7 0-1

Kevin Bonham
29-11-2018, 04:23 AM
Oh dear again. Carlsen - Caruana tiebreak 3

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Bc5 6.Nc2 Nf6 7.Nc3 0-0 8.Be3 b6 9.Be2 Bb7 10.0-0 Qe7 11.Qd2 Rfd8 12.Rfd1 Ne5 13.Bxc5 bxc5 14.f4 Ng6 15.Qe3 d6 16.Rd2 a6 17.Rad1 Qc7 18.b3 h6 19.g3 Rd7 20.Bf3 Re8 21.Qf2 Ne7 22.h3 Red8 23.Bg2 Nc6 24.g4 Qa5 25.Na4 Qc7 26.e5 dxe5 27.Nxc5 Rxd2 28.Rxd2 Rxd2 29.Qxd2 Ba8 30.fxe5 Qxe5 31.Nd7 Qb2 32.Qd6 Nxd7 33.Qxd7 Qxc2 34.Qe8+ Kh7 35.Qxa8 Qd1+ 36.Kh2 Qd6+ 37.Kh1 Nd4 38.Qe4+ f5 39.gxf5 exf5 40.Qe3 Ne6 41.b4 Ng5 42.c5 Qf6 43.c6 Ne6 44.a4 Nc7 45.Qf4 Ne6 46.Qd6 Qa1+ 47.Kh2 Nd4 48.c7 Qc3 49.Qc5 Qe3 50.c8=Q f4 51.Qg4 1-0

Capablanca-Fan
29-11-2018, 05:09 AM
Well done Garrett, Max Illingworth, and thomasdav for their correct prediction.

See GM Sam Shankland's analysis of the games (https://www.chess.com/article/view/world-chess-championship-2018-carlsen-caruana).

Adamski
29-11-2018, 08:00 AM
Well done Magnus - still the "WC".

antichrist
29-11-2018, 10:44 AM
Well done Magnus - still the "WC".

Not really, could not win a classic game to retain his championship with pride and honour. As somebody has noted it is the first championships of all drawn games.

ER
29-11-2018, 01:50 PM
Not really, could not win a classic game to retain his championship with pride and honour. As somebody has noted it is the first championships of all drawn games.

Check out the World Championship (*) match between Wilhelm Steinitz and Dr. Adolph Anderssen (London 1866) Steinitz won 8-6 no draws. A blood thirsty affair, they went for each other's throat.
King's Gambits and other aggressive openings galore.

Winner received £100 and the loser £20.

According to discussions those times the winner's share represented two years of earnings for a labourer's work
and a skilled, like an engineer's or draughtsman's remunerations for a year.

(*) Some dispute the validity of this match as a WCC encounter. However, it established the beginning of W.S's dominance in matches as the undisputed Chess champion for the next 28 years.

Capablanca-Fan
29-11-2018, 02:39 PM
Not really, could not win a classic game to retain his championship with pride and honour. As somebody has noted it is the first championships of all drawn games.

But Lasker, Botvinnik (twice), and even the currently grousing Kasparov retained their titles on drawn matches. At least Carlsen actually beat his challenger in some form of chess.

antichrist
29-11-2018, 03:17 PM
But Lasker, Botvinnik (twice), and even the currently grousing Kasparov retained their titles on drawn matches. At least Carlsen actually beat his challenger in some form of chess.

Did these ex-champs win their championships after actually winning a classic game or two then drawing or was every game drawn? A previous poster claimed that this was the first time that every (classic?) game was drawn.

antichrist
29-11-2018, 03:29 PM
Check out the World Championship (*) match between Wilhelm Steinitz and Dr. Adolph Anderssen (London 1866) Steinitz won 8-6 no draws. A blood thirsty affair, they went for each other's throat.
King's Gambits and other aggressive openings galore.

Winner received £100 and the loser £20.

According to discussions those times the winner's share represented two years of earnings for a labourer's work
and a skilled, like an engineer's or draughtsman's remunerations for a year.

(*) Some dispute the validity of this match as a WCC encounter. However, it established the beginning of W.S's dominance in matches as the undisputed Chess champion for the next 28 years.

For world championships at least they could rule that 3rd time repetition of position results in a loss for the player causing the 3rd repetition and no agreed draws until about move 85. As in real battle I don't think agreed draws were popular so they should not be acceptable in chess battles either.

Garrett
29-11-2018, 04:04 PM
Well done Garrett, Max Illingworth, and thomasdav for their correct prediction.

See GM Sam Shankland's analysis of the games (https://www.chess.com/article/view/world-chess-championship-2018-carlsen-caruana).

Thank you Capablanca-Fan.

MichaelBaron
29-11-2018, 09:13 PM
Convincing and one-sided effort by Magnus!

antichrist
29-11-2018, 09:21 PM
Convincing and one-sided effort by Magnus!

But in one or two games didn't he have an advantage but took a draw instead of fighting for a win? If future championships will follow this pattern they may as well be cancelled. Eventually interest will wane so they will become a non event.

MichaelBaron
29-11-2018, 11:09 PM
But in one or two games didn't he have an advantage but took a draw instead of fighting for a win? If future championships will follow this pattern they may as well be cancelled. Eventually interest will wane so they will become a non event.

I was referring to the tie-breaker.

Garvinator
29-11-2018, 11:32 PM
But Lasker, Botvinnik (twice), and even the currently grousing Kasparov retained their titles on drawn matches. At least Carlsen actually beat his challenger in some form of chess.

In those matches that you refer to, at least there were wins and losses exchanged. In 1987, Kasparov had to defeat Karpov in the game 24 to tie the match and keep the title.

Garvinator
29-11-2018, 11:35 PM
Whilst a lot of the commentary here is making a lot of hu ha about the twelve draws, I think most of the criticism should go back to the match length, not the twelve draws.

Increase the match length, have rest days after three games, not two, and I think you would find that the match would be much more interesting as both players repertoires would be tested, both for breadth as well as depth.

Kevin Bonham
29-11-2018, 11:56 PM
https://www.chess.com/blog/Rocky64/carlsen-caruana-wcc-game-6-the-actual-forced-mate-sequence-that-was-missed

Article by Peter Wong as mentioned in the ACF Newsletter about the actual number of moves to mate in game 6. I like this sort of thing.

Capablanca-Fan
30-11-2018, 02:28 AM
In those matches that you refer to, at least there were wins and losses exchanged. In 1987, Kasparov had to defeat Karpov in the game 24 to tie the match and keep the title.

But the objection I was replying to was that Carlsen could not win a classical match against his challenger. Yet unlike those other matches, Carlsen did not have draw odds going in.

Frank
30-11-2018, 03:19 PM
https://www.chess.com/blog/Rocky64/carlsen-caruana-wcc-game-6-the-actual-forced-mate-sequence-that-was-missed

Article by Peter Wong as mentioned in the ACF Newsletter about the actual number of moves to mate in game 6. I like this sort of thing.

A nice post.

Metro
05-12-2018, 05:53 PM
3706
| Photo: Maria Emelianova/Chess.com.

Metro
21-04-2021, 02:50 PM
Whilst a lot of the commentary here is making a lot of hu ha about the twelve draws, I think most of the criticism should go back to the match length, not the twelve draws.

Increase the match length, have rest days after three games, not two, and I think you would find that the match would be much more interesting as both players repertoires would be tested, both for breadth as well as depth.Magnus in Candidates commentary today said he likes the additional 2 games (it is now 14 ).He also said he thinks there are too many rest days.(It adds to the nervous tension).