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Alan Shore
12-12-2004, 10:18 PM
This may be an extreme case but honestly... there are more and more of these ridiculous instances cropping up every day.

http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20041211%2F1604280438.htm&sc=1110

arosar
29-12-2004, 01:20 PM
Interesting!

http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110006080

AR

Spiny Norman
29-12-2004, 06:04 PM
Australia is on the same slippery-slope.

Rincewind
29-12-2004, 06:12 PM
Australia is on the same slippery-slope.

Which slippery-slope. Overtly strong law enforcement which cuffs 10-y-os for bringing a 8" pair of scissors to school? Or the weak law-enforcement which cannot protect the right of free-speech against the angry mob which has closed down a play and has the playwright in hiding in fear for her life?

Spiny Norman
29-12-2004, 06:19 PM
The latter, as evidenced by legislation passed in recent years and a high-profile recent court case.

Duff McKagan
30-12-2004, 10:26 PM
This is where automation breaks down. In many of lifes situations there is no automated way of proceeding. What happened to that little girl is just wrong... are we going to do away with scissors and go back to caveman times? Take a look at the USA... they are backward! (Ironically that is a Bruce Dickinson song.) Because of a few issues with the people in power, others are forced into carrying out ridiculous automated solutions such as this one. The rich get richer, the rich get fatter, the poor get poorer, crime gets more sophisticated, more automated solutions come into effect, cost cutting quick fixes are imposed, technology goes backwards. The US is just a big time bomb ready to explode, unless of course they push this back with a quick war to come to the aid of their economy. The US being such a world power of course influences other countries, especially the English-speaking ones. I don't blame John Howard for getting into the war situation and sending our troops over... to get rid of Saddam was the right thing to do, plus he is thinking of the future of Australia... if someone attacks us, the US are now obliged to come to our defence. However I applaud him for refusing to send even more of our troops to remain in Iraq to do yanky dirty work. They started it, they finish it! This is the reality of it. Day 1: Get out the cruisers and air to air missiles. Day 2 Send in the tanks. Day 3: Secure the oil Day 4: think about attacking Baghdad. The US Government are freaking criminals! I'm also sick of their influences which contribute to numerous 'Ambulance Law' Cases as NSW Premier Bob Carr puts it. The US bill of rights is such a phony document, its more like a bill of chains. Ambulance law cases are very un-australian. If some burglar injures himself while trying to burglarise, thats tough luck! He forfeited all of his rights when starting to commit a crime! If you dive off a bridge, knowing that you will incur serious injuries, then what a fool you are! If you break into a nightclub when refused admission and injure yourself, you'd better go back to the club after you recover and do some serious apologising! Investigate each case using a human brain, not some automated policy. In the short term, automation might be good for economic reasons, but when things go belly-up, the problems incurred are very costly and the net effect on society is horrendous. Are we all going to be living in fear unless we are King of some island miles away from the USA, completelly isolated with possibly a better standard of living?
Many people I have spoken to are about to flee the United States for countries like Germany, Spain, England and Australia in search for a better standard of living and less torment. Can you get a real rump steak in the USA? DO people smile and greet other people nicely in the street? No, unless its a surgical smile and they are scheming you for your money! Have you heard of the recent bill passed that will enable them to implant an electronic ID device in the years to come... pity on the US people... its almost starting to resemble the mark of the beast in a land of torment!
(there is no disclaimer for these remarks, if you have a problem, debate it logically)

Alan Shore
31-12-2004, 06:27 PM
The US bill of rights is such a phony document, its more like a bill of chains. Ambulance law cases are very un-australian. If some burglar injures himself while trying to burglarise, thats tough luck! He forfeited all of his rights when starting to commit a crime! If you dive off a bridge, knowing that you will incur serious injuries, then what a fool you are! If you break into a nightclub when refused admission and injure yourself, you'd better go back to the club after you recover and do some serious apologising! Investigate each case using a human brain, not some automated policy. In the short term, automation might be good for economic reasons, but when things go belly-up, the problems incurred are very costly and the net effect on society is horrendous. Are we all going to be living in fear unless we are King of some island miles away from the USA, completelly isolated with possibly a better standard of living?

You're dead right. The US Bill of Rights is a joke that lawyers have manipulated to their own ends to bewilder foolish judges. In short, people need to take more responsibility for their actions and accept the consequences.


DO people smile and greet other people nicely in the street? No, unless its a surgical smile and they are scheming you for your money!

It makes me sad just thinking about how true this has become and how things are progressing...

Alan Shore
18-01-2005, 12:34 PM
Bump.

antichrist
21-01-2005, 01:13 PM
Am I correct that a Bruce Dickinson is head of Iron Maiden who belts out Number of the Beast.

Alan Shore
22-01-2005, 11:41 AM
Am I correct that a Bruce Dickinson is head of Iron Maiden who belts out Number of the Beast.

You are indeed correct.. it's a good song too.

Alan Shore
23-01-2005, 08:50 PM
Baz (and all), more ludicrosity:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145046,00.html

Rincewind
23-01-2005, 09:03 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145046,00.html

The RR up to their usual tricks. Elmo had to suffer similar indignities. And how about Tinky-winky? Claiming he was a horse's just because he was purple and had a triangle sticking out of his head. Mind you, the red handbag and predeliction for wearing a tutu did nothing to hose down the rumours. Of course being a transvestite doesn't mean you're gay. (Not that there's anythnig wrong with either.)

Spiny Norman
24-01-2005, 09:05 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145046,00.html

Oh my LORD ... my kids have been watching that fruity sponge!!! :eh:

arosar
09-02-2005, 04:21 PM
What about this then?

http://smh.com.au/news/World/Law-strikes-low-blow/2005/02/09/1107890256331.html

Personally, I find this sorta public flossing inelegant. What about some of youse blokes?

AR

Trent Parker
10-02-2005, 12:25 PM
My brother and his mates are going through the stage of having the jocks showing above the pants. It's not my style.... but it seems to be the go with the younger ones at the moment.....

JGB
10-02-2005, 01:22 PM
My brother and his mates are going through the stage of having the jocks showing above the pants. It's not my style.... but it seems to be the go with the younger ones at the moment.....

...you could take it one step further! Wear your Jocks on the outside!!!... Batman, Spiderman et al., never had a problem with the ladies. haha.

Arrogant-One
10-02-2005, 02:41 PM
Clicked on the link you provided Bruce, but the story was not found. Maybe you should have tried cutting and pasting.

A-O

Alan Shore
18-02-2005, 03:55 AM
Re: previous discussion on Spongebob:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/remindergto/nq050208.gif

antichrist
18-02-2005, 07:57 AM
Legislation gone mad is the government considering leglislating to force Telstra to provide around a million dollars of free calls a year to Lifeline. If it is so crucial the govt should fund it. If someone is generous enough to do a charitable deed for years is it be fair that they then be compelled to do it. Definitely a detterence from commencing a new charitable act.

Don_Harrison
18-02-2005, 11:01 AM
Legislation gone mad is the government considering leglislating to force Telstra to provide around a million dollars of free calls a year to Lifeline. If it is so crucial the govt should fund it. If someone is generous enough to do a charitable deed for years is it be fair that they then be compelled to do it. Definitely a detterence from commencing a new charitable act.

I'm slightly bemused by the whole thing. Not. The appearance, and the intent, is that this telco (50.3% owned by the Government, ie you and me,) is responsible for providing a free service. Why not every other telco which is listed on the Australian stock market, including that from Kiwi land?

The issue is endemic. Legislation to protect consumers because they are too stupid to make rational decisions and accept the consequences of those decisions. Legislation to provide people to move their superannuation from one fund to another. On that aspect the majority of Australians are so financially illeterate [sic] that it is akin to giving loaded handguns to kindergarten children, ie there will be very few survivours. Utter twits who injure themselves through their own stupidity blame someone else for their misfortune.

Eductators who, by pandering to ideology, introduce such meaningless matters in primary school as mentoring, social awareness, and so on and so on. And when they "graduate" from high school they are both illiterate and innumerate. University graduates with a PhD in jewelry design who have to undertake a remedial English course at a TAFE because they cannot even spull cat.

And I am expected to employ these dolts. Of course, it is all my fault if I do employ them and they get into difficulity since it is axiomatic, that as part of my responsibility to my employee, I am to ensure that they:


don't spend more than they can earn;

understand fully the nuances of the income tax laws and superannuation issues;

can understand my instructions by enunciating them in words of one syllable or less;

can get out of bed each morning so that they can find their way to work;


Oh, and I should provide them breakfast so that they will be a more effective employee as well as making sure that their journey to and from work is not fraught with danger; implicit or implied.

And I am one of the mob who allowed this to happen! :confused:

firegoat7
18-02-2005, 12:18 PM
I'm slightly bemused by the whole thing. Not. The appearance, and the intent, is that this telco (50.3% owned by the Government, ie you and me,) is responsible for providing a free service. Why not every other telco which is listed on the Australian stock market, including that from Kiwi land?

Well it is still a government Telco so what is the problem.




The issue is endemic. Legislation to protect consumers because they are too stupid to make rational decisions and accept the consequences of those decisions. Legislation to provide people to move their superannuation from one fund to another. On that aspect the majority of Australians are so financially illeterate [sic] that it is akin to giving loaded handguns to kindergarten children, ie there will be very few survivours. Utter twits who injure themselves through their own stupidity blame someone else for their misfortune.

All things being equal your ideas would make sense. But lets talk reality here. If people work for their money and then invest it then they ought to be able to invest that money with some sense of trust. If you undermine this trust, you risk destroying the whole capiltalist machine. Now, it might be fine for yourself and other 'talented' individuals, who understand finance and its special form of magic, to be wise and thoughtful. But it is a bit much to expect people not versed in the magic of financial investment to understand it. Moreover why would you want them to? The whole agenda in our society is specialisation. We expect people to be experts and we pay them for those services. Financial people ought to be happy that a number of people in society do not understand finance, otherwise they would be out of jobs.


If you are a boss you ought to understand that responsibility. Australia has an aging population and superannuation is one way of addressing these future problems. If your a boss you also ought to understand that your profit is made through your workers. Those workers need futures, and lets face it you won't be the person providing for it, although you do contribute something. Instead, the government ensures that a relationship is devleoped in which you (as a boss) are given some responsibilty to ensure that the workers (own wage) is stored for the future. Whats wrong with that, you seem perfectly happy to make a profit out of their labor.

You may be right that this is a nanny state philosophy, but whats the alternative? State Welfare, Great depression starvation?




Eductators who, by pandering to ideology, introduce such meaningless matters in primary school as mentoring, social awareness, and so on and so on. And when they "graduate" from high school they are both illiterate and innumerate. University graduates with a PhD in jewelry design who have to undertake a remedial English course at a TAFE because they cannot even spull cat. This is emotional nonsense. It is not clear who you mean by 'educators' , well who is making the decision of introducing courses. What courses, where , what examples are you talking about?

If you are talking about specialisation in jewellry making then...
I see little connection between jewellry making and spelling. One is an artistic realm the other is communication. Whats the point? Why does a jewellry maker need to write English? Surely they need to be able to make jewellry. Does it really matter if they spell cat wrong?



And I am expected to employ these dolts.

People are not dolts. They are human beings. If you think anybody is "unintelligent" then you ought to have a real good look at yourself. Somebodys educational levels or lack of bares little resemblance to their intelligence. Education is cultural. Intelligence is ??????, an interesting question.



Of course, it is all my fault if I do employ them and they get into difficulity since it is axiomatic, that as part of my responsibility to my employee, I am to ensure that they:


don't spend more than they can earn;

understand fully the nuances of the income tax laws and superannuation issues;

can understand my instructions by enunciating them in words of one syllable or less;

can get out of bed each morning so that they can find their way to work;


Oh, and I should provide them breakfast so that they will be a more effective employee as well as making sure that their journey to and from work is not fraught with danger; implicit or implied.

And I am one of the mob who allowed this to happen! :confused:

1/ Consumer society needs spending, how can you avoid it? If you as an individual produce goods for buying and spelling then yes, you are part of it.

2/ All bosses need to be familiar with these laws since they are the ones who are mostly benefitting from the labour they employ. If they want to control human resources they ought to contribute to human welfare.

3/ If you have communication problems with your employees then that is your problem, maybe you should treat them like humans instead of animals.

4/ Of course this point is a myth. The welfare system is designed to punish those who "don't get out of bed in the morning" or should I say those at the bottom of the hierarchy, ie not the boss. My boss turns up to work at midday quite often, I wonder what would happen to me if I did the same thing?
It ought to be remembered that time measurement is a fetish fantasy of industrial society.Its no coincidence that the digital age requires digital clocks. In previous historical Argarian societies people did not need clocks, yet they were still able to do work, why is that?

5/ not serious

6/ Yes you live in a society and you have allowed this to happen in as much as you were born into something that already existed and all meaning was constructed from within your own personal experiences of adapting to this cultural system. You may believe that you are an individual who is control of your destiny, but I would like to suggest that your free choice is a relative illusion and in fact your probably just trying to cope with society as best you can, like most of us, within the boundaries that are super imposed structurally upon "us" by others. When humans understand that they are social beings as a species, they then might one day want to understand what socialness means, how is it, that we are all connected and what is my responsibility towards being social to each other/self.

Cheers FG7

P.S Im sorry Don, but I do not understand how a boss could expect us to believe that they were a victim of society, when it is clear they have a power to change it.

arosar
14-03-2005, 09:22 AM
This isn't really legislation gone mad but a lawsuit. It's been reported that US family members of victims and survivors of the Tsunami Disaster have filed a lawsuit against the PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTRE. The suit alleges that the centre did not do enough to protect or warn the victims.

Err . . . will somebody please tell those stupid people that the disaster struck in . . . ahem . . . the INDIAN OCEAN?

AR

eclectic
14-03-2005, 10:35 AM
This isn't really legislation gone mad but a lawsuit. It's been reported that US family members of victims and survivors of the Tsunami Disaster have filed a lawsuit against the PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTRE. The suit alleges that the centre did not do enough to protect or warn the victims.

Err . . . will somebody please tell those stupid people that the disaster struck in . . . ahem . . . the INDIAN OCEAN?

AR

AR,

americans are so litigious they'd file a lawsuit if their toilet paper wasn't smooth enough

eclectic

pax
14-03-2005, 10:35 AM
This isn't really legislation gone mad but a lawsuit. It's been reported that US family members of victims and survivors of the Tsunami Disaster have filed a lawsuit against the PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTRE. The suit alleges that the centre did not do enough to protect or warn the victims.

Err . . . will somebody please tell those stupid people that the disaster struck in . . . ahem . . . the INDIAN OCEAN?

AR

When I read this, I thought it must be a hoax like many of the US lawsuit emails that go around. It isn't:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/Tsunami-survivors-sue-US-warning-centres/2005/03/13/1110649047968.html

However the plaintiffs appear to be "Europeans" rather than Americans.

Rincewind
14-03-2005, 10:41 AM
This isn't really legislation gone mad but a lawsuit. It's been reported that US family members of victims and survivors of the Tsunami Disaster have filed a lawsuit against the PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTRE. The suit alleges that the centre did not do enough to protect or warn the victims.

Err . . . will somebody please tell those stupid people that the disaster struck in . . . ahem . . . the INDIAN OCEAN?

Note:

"The lawsuit does not seek damages, but instead asks the court to preserve evidence..."
and

"The lawsuit claims the Thai government is destroying and concealing evidence that will prove its officials knew of the approaching tsunami..."

Taken in that context it sounds quite reasonable to me.

arosar
14-03-2005, 10:53 AM
They can spin the suit any which way they want and you can take it in any context you like. But lawsuits have only one objective. Money.

AR

Rincewind
14-03-2005, 11:37 AM
They can spin the suit any which way they want and you can take it in any context you like. But lawsuits have only one objective. Money.

So I guess you've not heard of an injunction.

arosar
14-03-2005, 12:08 PM
Yes I have. That's also about money.

AR

Rincewind
14-03-2005, 12:47 PM
Yes I have. That's also about money.

Yes, but by that mundane definition, everything we do is about money

Cat
14-03-2005, 11:35 PM
Note:

"The lawsuit does not seek damages, but instead asks the court to preserve evidence..."
and

"The lawsuit claims the Thai government is destroying and concealing evidence that will prove its officials knew of the approaching tsunami..."

Taken in that context it sounds quite reasonable to me.


I agree with you on this Barry, I thinks it's right these questions are being asked.

Alan Shore
22-03-2005, 04:16 PM
Oh aye, it gets worse..

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050318/D88TI3O00.html

antichrist
22-03-2005, 07:45 PM
The new laws in USA attempting to force feeding of that comatosed women.

Alan Shore
22-03-2005, 08:13 PM
The new laws in USA attempting to force feeding of that comatosed women.

Perhaps this is something to chat about over in the 'value of human life' thread AC? Would make some interesting discussion.

antichrist
22-03-2005, 08:26 PM
Perhaps this is something to chat about over in the 'value of human life' thread AC? Would make some interesting discussion.

But you may judge it 'inane yabbering' and wish it was me who cannot talk. I could do with out the eating for while, for my waistline's sake.

Alan Shore
22-03-2005, 08:44 PM
But you may judge it 'inane yabbering' and wish it was me who cannot talk. I could do with out the eating for while, for my waistline's sake.

AC, I had no idea you were so sensitive to criticism... it was more supporting starter than having a go at you anyway. Cheer up mate.

arosar
22-03-2005, 08:46 PM
The new laws in USA attempting to force feeding of that comatosed women.

Stupid laws. Bush said that they should err on life. But what life?

AR

antichrist
23-03-2005, 01:29 AM
As said previously my mother had a shocking drawn out death from cancer. She begged me to suffocate her, I wanted to but was scared of the cops - when I think of it that has never stopped me doing anything before.

It is only now I realise why she chose me, I had the strong mind, if I say I am going to do something I will do it. Only I let her down.

antichrist
23-03-2005, 02:00 AM
AC, I had no idea you were so sensitive to criticism... it was more supporting starter than having a go at you anyway. Cheer up mate.

You have BIll's disease, an inability to see the real message. If I was genuine in being upset I would not have mentioned been mute and starved in the manner I did.

I just did not want to move to other thread because don't want to debate with people I disagree with on this issue - if there are any. Like you in the Blood on Hands thread