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View Full Version : Hastings International (Cheng and Tan)

Kevin Bonham
02-01-2017, 01:14 PM
Bobby Cheng and Justin Tan are both currently on 3.5/5 in the Hastings International. Bobby has played lots of GMs and has a shot at a GM norm if his PR lifts a little. Justin is coming back from an early draw so is just about to play his first GM opponent.

http://www.hastingschess.com/results-pairings-201617/

http://chess-results.com/tnr251584.aspx?lan=1&art=2&rd=6&flag=30&wi=821

MichaelBaron
03-01-2017, 09:42 AM
Bobby is on 4/6 with a 2565 TPR so far! He is black against an old 2200-rated IM in the next round so a real chance to get TPR to 2600!

Thebes
03-01-2017, 11:47 AM
Bobby is on 4/6 with a 2565 TPR so far! He is black against an old 2200-rated IM in the next round so a real chance to get TPR to 2600!

Wouldn't playing a 2200 keep his performance rating the same, regardless of the result or does it not work like that?

Kevin Bonham
03-01-2017, 12:18 PM
A few things here. Firstly the chess-results performance rating is not a TPR (true performance rating). It is a batched PR calculated by the FIDE formula (an extra problem with chess-results, not seen in this case, is that they assign arbitrary ratings for unrated opponents). Bobby's TPR after six rounds is 2593 (logistic scale) or 2590 (normal) and rises to 2608 (2603) if he wins round 7. Unfortunately FIDE don't use TPRs for norms.

In terms of the batched formula used for norms, which is different again because the sub-2200 player is uplifted to 2200, beating his next opponent would indeed only keep his performance rating about the same (by my calculations increasing it from 2586 to 2587).

If Bobby wins round 7 I have him needing 2/2 against players of average rating 2281.5+ or 1.5/2 against players of average rating 2524.5+.

The 1.5/2 scenario means he would have to play one of Rasmussen, Sethuraman, Fier and Karthikeyan in the last two rounds. This means win-draw-win isn't likely to be enough.

If he doesn't win round 7 he almost certainly won't get strong enough opponents in the last 2 rounds for a norm.

Kevin Bonham
04-01-2017, 01:26 PM
Bobby drew round 7 and now cannot get a norm. He still has a rating gain from this tournament so far.

05-01-2017, 09:25 AM
A few things here. Firstly the chess-results performance rating is not a TPR (true performance rating).

While I agree with most what you are saying, the chess-results performance rating is a very good indicator of what you need to score a norm. All you need is to correct for an uplift to 2200 and check if all ratings are entered correctly.

MichaelBaron
05-01-2017, 10:04 AM
Unfortunately both Bobby and Justin did not do so well in rd.8 against lower-rated opponents. Justin drew and Bobby lost.

Kevin Bonham
05-01-2017, 10:25 AM
While I agree with most what you are saying, the chess-results performance rating is a very good indicator of what you need to score a norm. All you need is to correct for an uplift to 2200 and check if all ratings are entered correctly.

This is correct. It still has nothing to do with TPR though. TPR is a specific technical concept that is very different from the batched calculations used for FIDE norms. With TPRs your performance always goes up if you win and always goes down if you lose.

MichaelBaron
06-01-2017, 09:21 AM
Both Justin and Bobby finished the tournament with a marginal rating increase. By the way, I am curious why we use chess-results.com so little in Australia. It is certainly far more user friendly than Vega, Tournelo etc.

Ian Rout
06-01-2017, 11:56 AM
By the way, I am curious why we use chess-results.com so little in Australia. It is certainly far more user friendly than Vega, Tournelo etc.chess-results is a results reporting service, not a pairing system. So the pairings have to first be done locally and then exported, it's in addition rather than instead, and people will still be looking for them on the tournament site. You could simply link to the chess-results page which some events (like Hastings) do - I suppose the risk is not having your own copy if chess-results goes down.

Most major tournaments have been reported on chess-results including Australasian Masters, Lidums Young Masters, Victorian and NSW Chaampionships, NSW Open and Doeberl Cup in the past year.

There also used to be an issue that you could only have two events per country at the same time but this doesn't look to be true now.

Alana
09-01-2017, 12:07 PM
chess-results is a results reporting service, not a pairing system. So the pairings have to first be done locally and then exported, it's in addition rather than instead, and people will still be looking for them on the tournament site. You could simply link to the chess-results page which some events (like Hastings) do - I suppose the risk is not having your own copy if chess-results goes down.

Most major tournaments have been reported on chess-results including Australasian Masters, Lidums Young Masters, Victorian and NSW Championships, NSW Open and Doeberl Cup in the past year.

There also used to be an issue that you could only have two events per country at the same time but this doesn't look to be true now.

Also, to put tournaments in chess-results.com you need to be running the Swiss Manager program. Swiss Manager is not commonly used in Australia (except for some FIDE-rated events) as it is much less user-friendly than Vega or Swiss Perfect (though we know Swiss Perfect has it's floors with unapproved pairings).

MichaelBaron
09-01-2017, 10:18 PM
Also, to put tournaments in chess-results.com you need to be running the Swiss Manager program. Swiss Manager is not commonly used in Australia (except for some FIDE-rated events) as it is much less user-friendly than Vega or Swiss Perfect (though we know Swiss Perfect has it's floors with unapproved pairings).

From perspective of those who want to follow tournament results - chess-results.com id definitely more user friendly.