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Gnostic Bishop
09-04-2016, 10:29 AM
Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.

Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.

How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.

For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.

So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.

Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?

Regards
DL

Sir Cromulent Sparkles
09-04-2016, 10:45 AM
Just when you think the coast is clear .............

Gnostic Bishop
09-04-2016, 10:55 AM
Just when you think the coast is clear .............

Learn how to look better.

Regards
DL

Sir Cromulent Sparkles
09-04-2016, 11:02 AM
Learn how to look better.

Regards
DL

Learn how to disappear.

Regards
DM

Garrett
09-04-2016, 11:19 AM
Just when you think the coast is clear .............

My guess is you invoked him when you typed his name out loud during your incoherent rant in the parliament thread.

MichaelBaron
09-04-2016, 11:47 AM
I feel funny being on the defence side of the Christianity as I believe in God but do not follow any particular religion. However, the question why there is suffering if there is God has been already raised on many occasions. Googling should be sufficient :).

Capablanca-Fan
09-04-2016, 12:08 PM
My guess is you invoked him when you typed his name out loud during your incoherent rant in the parliament thread.

Those two seem to be made for each other.

Desmond
09-04-2016, 01:00 PM
God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. Yeah pretty sick right? Good thing it aint true.

jammo
09-04-2016, 01:23 PM
I feel funny being on the defence side of the Christianity as I believe in God but do not follow any particular religion. However, the question why there is suffering if there is God has been already raised on many occasions. Googling should be sufficient :).

Interesting! Which particular God do you believe in ... or have you made up your own God to suit? My own favourite God is Caissa.

Kevin Bonham
09-04-2016, 09:46 PM
Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Is the Pope a Catholic?

MichaelBaron
10-04-2016, 12:20 AM
Interesting! Which particular God do you believe in ... or have you made up your own God to suit? My own favourite God is Caissa.

I believe in existance of higher power/powers

Gnostic Bishop
10-04-2016, 03:20 AM
I feel funny being on the defence side of the Christianity as I believe in God but do not follow any particular religion. However, the question why there is suffering if there is God has been already raised on many occasions. Googling should be sufficient :).

It has for sure and after all that discourse, only fools will say in their hearts that there is a supernatural God.

The ancients knew this but we have forgotten.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Why have you decided to believe in the supernatural, especially when the Christian God is such an evil demiurge?

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
10-04-2016, 03:21 AM
Yeah pretty sick right? Good thing it aint true.

It is quite a vile system and yes, it is a good thing that it is all a lie.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
10-04-2016, 03:24 AM
Is the Pope a Catholic?

Not a good one, although he is slightly more forgiving while still discriminating against gays without a just cause.

When the Pope cannot do unto others, we can know how hypocritical Catholicism is.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
10-04-2016, 03:25 AM
I believe in existance of higher power/powers

On what evidence or proof?

What prompts your belief?

Regards
DL

MichaelBaron
10-04-2016, 03:45 AM
It has for sure and after all that discourse, only fools will say in their hearts that there is a supernatural God.

The ancients knew this but we have forgotten.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Why have you decided to believe in the supernatural, especially when the Christian God is such an evil demiurge?

Regards
DL

I do not find any particular religion to be evil - it is just that I have my own vision of this ''higher power''.

Gnostic Bishop
10-04-2016, 10:38 AM
I do not find any particular religion to be evil - it is just that I have my own vision of this ''higher power''.

If you do not see the evil in Christianity and Islam then your higher power is not much of a teacher as your moral sense is not well developed.

Regards
DL

MichaelBaron
10-04-2016, 11:11 AM
If you do not see the evil in Christianity and Islam then your higher power is not much of a teacher as your moral sense is not well developed.

Regards
DL

If you claim that someone who works as a teacher or (as in my case) University lecturer needs to be able to ''identify evil'' in Christianity or Islam..then I am curious how you teach (in case you are a teacher) and what sort of education you recieved yourself?

Person's religious beliefs are his/her's private matter. All religions teach about tolerance. Within the religious circles, we always oppose those who practice and promote intolerance. In your case, the intolerance is even more obvious so I am not sure what is worse - agressive conversion (into Christianity, Islam etc) or agresive denial of God &Christianity.

idledim
10-04-2016, 12:08 PM
so I am not sure what is worse - agressive conversion (into Christianity, Islam etc) or agresive denial of God &Christianity.

Simone Weil might help you there - but God help your spelling.

Gnostic Bishop
11-04-2016, 06:01 AM
If you claim that someone who works as a teacher or (as in my case) University lecturer needs to be able to ''identify evil'' in Christianity or Islam..then I am curious how you teach (in case you are a teacher) and what sort of education you recieved yourself?

Person's religious beliefs are his/her's private matter. All religions teach about tolerance. Within the religious circles, we always oppose those who practice and promote intolerance. In your case, the intolerance is even more obvious so I am not sure what is worse - agressive conversion (into Christianity, Islam etc) or agresive denial of God &Christianity.

As I said, your moral sense is not well developed if you see tolerance in Christianity or Islam.

Do these statements show tolerance to you?

Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Qur'an 8:7 "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: `Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Further, do you believe in freedom of speech and do you see Islam tolerating it in this clip?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UTdKxCz2FIQ

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
11-04-2016, 06:09 AM
Person's religious beliefs are his/her's private matter. All religions teach about tolerance. Within the religious circles, we always oppose those who practice and promote intolerance. In your case, the intolerance is even more obvious so I am not sure what is worse - agressive conversion (into Christianity, Islam etc) or agresive denial of God &Christianity.

I am questioning why religions lie to us. What problem do you have with my following biblical teachings?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Regards
DL

Sir Cromulent Sparkles
11-04-2016, 08:46 AM
I am questioning why religions lie to us. What problem do you have with my following biblical teachings?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Regards
DL

GB when will you find salvation ? If only you reached out to Jesus everything would be super kewl !!!!

Matthew 16:18 !!!! - "And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him ; and the child was cured from that very hour."

Regards,
DM.

Gnostic Bishop
11-04-2016, 09:04 AM
GB when will you find salvation ? If only you reached out to Jesus everything would be super kewl !!!!

Matthew 16:18 !!!! - "And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him ; and the child was cured from that very hour."

Regards,
DM.

So all I have to do is accept that punishing the innocent instead of the guilty is good justice.

No thanks.

That kind of immorality is why I am not fond of Christianity or Islam.

Here is the logic behind rejecting the immorality you have accepted.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg&feature=em-subs_digest-vrecs

Regards
DL

Kevin Bonham
11-04-2016, 09:21 AM
I don't think they have sarcasm or irony on Gnostic Bishop's planet.

Sir Cromulent Sparkles
11-04-2016, 09:25 AM
So all I have to do is accept that punishing the innocent instead of the guilty is good justice.

No thanks.

That kind of immorality is why I am not fond of Christianity or Islam.

Here is the logic behind rejecting the immorality you have accepted.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg&feature=em-subs_digest-vrecs

Regards
DL

If not Jesus, then who is assigned the task of expelling demons from children ?

Do not refrain from seeking the guidance of the great man, or else your body will be entombed in a great drought of false worship for your fake idols.

Jeremiah 50:39 - "A drought is against her waters, and they will be dried up. For it is the land of the carved images, And they are insane with their idols."

Gnostic Bishop
11-04-2016, 09:45 AM
If not Jesus, then who is assigned the task of expelling demons from children ?

Do not refrain from seeking the guidance of the great man, or else your body will be entombed in a great drought of false worship for your fake idols.

Jeremiah 50:39 - "A drought is against her waters, and they will be dried up. For it is the land of the carved images, And they are insane with their idols."

Only a fool says in his heart, there are real demons in children.

You might want to put away the things of children.

Regards
DL

Sir Cromulent Sparkles
12-04-2016, 02:14 AM
Only a fool says in his heart, there are real demons in children.

You might want to put away the things of children.

Regards
DL

Clearly your heart has not taught your mouth to be wise whilst adding learning to your lips.

It is only a metaphorical demon that I speak of. It is the great bind we experience through lifes trials and tribulations.

You should hopefully make amends by reflecting on Corinthians 14:9 - "So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken ? For you will be speaking into the air."

Salutations,
DM.

Gnostic Bishop
12-04-2016, 02:49 AM
Clearly your heart has not taught your mouth to be wise whilst adding learning to your lips.

It is only a metaphorical demon that I speak of. It is the great bind we experience through lifes trials and tribulations.

You should hopefully make amends by reflecting on Corinthians 14:9 - "So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken ? For you will be speaking into the air."

Salutations,
DM.

What you call demons, I call opportunities.

Put away your childish toys.

Regards
DL

Sir Cromulent Sparkles
12-04-2016, 07:45 AM
What you call demons, I call opportunities.

Put away your childish toys.

Regards
DL

The righteous eats to the satisfying of his soul, But the stomach of the wicked shall be in want.

Your opportunities are merely superficial whims unable to sustain adequate nourishment.

Gnostic Bishop
12-04-2016, 11:33 PM
The righteous eats to the satisfying of his soul, But the stomach of the wicked shall be in want.

Your opportunities are merely superficial whims unable to sustain adequate nourishment.

Put away your childish toys.

Regards
DL

Sir Cromulent Sparkles
13-04-2016, 09:21 AM
Put away your childish toys.

Regards
DL

You are the only child in this forum Gnostic Bishop and the Lord will certainly crush you for your treacherous and impudent ways ..............

Jeremiah 49:16

Your fierceness has deceived you,
The pride of your heart,
O you who dwell in the clefts of rocks,
Who hold the height of the hill !!
Though you make your nest as high as the eagle,
I will bring you down from there," says the Lord.

Gnostic Bishop
15-04-2016, 12:40 AM
You are the only child in this forum Gnostic Bishop and the Lord will certainly crush you for your treacherous and impudent ways ..............

Jeremiah 49:16

Your fierceness has deceived you,
The pride of your heart,
O you who dwell in the clefts of rocks,
Who hold the height of the hill !!
Though you make your nest as high as the eagle,
I will bring you down from there," says the Lord.

Fear is what religious fraudsters use on children. Put away your childish ways.

My God has a bigger [..] than your God, as can be seen by his morals.

Come and put your satanic Gods morals against mine and see.

Regards
DL

Sir Cromulent Sparkles
15-04-2016, 02:26 AM
My God has a bigger [..] than your God, as can be seen by his morals.

Yeah you're not crazy at all. :confused:

Rincewind
15-04-2016, 07:16 AM
Yeah you're not crazy at all. :confused:

It's official. Gnostic Bishop is actually Donald Trump.

Kevin Bonham
15-04-2016, 08:22 AM
Moderation Notice

A reminder - especially to GB who appears a bit prone to this sort of thing - that " swearing or excessive crudity" is to be avoided on this forum. In this case I have just deleted the expression in question. If anyone wishes to discuss this they may do so only in the Help and Feedback section.

Sir Cromulent Sparkles
15-04-2016, 05:37 PM
It's official. Gnostic Bishop is actually Donald Trump.

It is an absoulte honour that the Don has kindly taken time out from his electioneering to grace this board.

We are truly blessed. :D

Rincewind
15-04-2016, 06:26 PM
It is an absoulte honour that the Don has kindly taken time out from his electioneering to grace this board.

It's surprising that he would bother with a medium that allows more than 140 characters to express a single thought bubble.

Sir Cromulent Sparkles
15-04-2016, 08:37 PM
It's surprising that he would bother with a medium that allows more than 140 characters to express a single thought bubble.

The poor chap has probably forgotten the password to his twitter account.

Hopefully our messageboard will act as the conduit to help broaden his already insightful oratory.