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Charles
26-01-2016, 12:40 PM
Hi all,

It is about eight weeks out from the Doeberl Cup.

We are at University House of ANU again this year and looking forward to putting on a great tournament again.

Shirt orders will be open later this week when the winner is announced.

Hope to see many of you there again this year.

Charles
27-01-2016, 09:45 AM
Hi all,

Had a query and can confirm all three tournaments (premier, major and minor) will be FIDE rated again this year.

ludwigra
01-02-2016, 12:08 PM
I realise this may seem provocative or upsetting to some here, but I truly find it curious that GMs/WGMs/IMs/WIMs are fully exempt from the entry fees, considering they statistically constitute around third of the participants!

I can see why a reasonable discount is in order, but not the current state of affairs whereby the rest of us "plebeians" in the Premier event require now to cough up the exorbitant sum of $175 while having a very slim practical chance to effectively vie for the first prizes, those historically splitting naturally (and rightly so) between the top contestants.

I wonder if anyone else here sees this as somewhat imbalanced or is it only yours truly?

I am fully aware of the argument for attracting strong players, but I'd be very surprised (for various reasons) if paying a discounted-fee vs. a no-fee will create the binary participation difference for most of the strong players, be they local or foreign; while it will certainly make some difference (financially and otherwise) for the other 2/3rds.

Garrett
01-02-2016, 12:24 PM
It never really worried me.

I've played a few Doeberls, the entry fee is only about 10-15% of the cost of the trip.

It's good to rub shoulders with the elite. Can't do that in many sports.

MichaelBaron
01-02-2016, 01:15 PM
I realise this may seem provocative or upsetting to some here, but I truly find it curious that GMs/WGMs/IMs/WIMs are fully exempt from the entry fees, considering they statistically constitute around third of the participants!

I can see why a reasonable discount is in order, but not the current state of affairs whereby the rest of us "plebeians" in the Premier event require now to cough up the exorbitant sum of $175 while having a very slim practical chance to effectively vie for the first prizes, those historically splitting naturally (and rightly so) between the top contestants.

I wonder if anyone else here sees this as somewhat imbalanced or is it only yours truly?

I am fully aware of the argument for attracting strong players, but I'd be very surprised (for various reasons) if paying a discounted-fee vs. a no-fee will create the binary participation difference for most of the strong players, be they local or foreign; while it will certainly make some difference (financially and otherwise) for the other 2/3rds.

Very appropriate use of the word ''plebeians''! Would be funny if overseas grandmasters will travel at their own expense and pay entry fees to play 1600-1800 rated players. Elite sports people need to be rewarded for their efforts when playing competitively.

MichaelBaron
01-02-2016, 01:21 PM
Very appropriate use of the word ''plebeians''! Would be funny if overseas grandmasters will travel at their own expense and pay entry fees to play 1600-1800 rated players. Elite sports people need to be rewarded for their efforts when playing competitively.

I would have a go at WIMs getting free entry (particularly in the light of the fact that majority of our WIMs got their titles from zonal and are no stronger than ordinary club players)...but on the other hand, their participation encourages female participation in chess in general as well as helps us in avoiding political incorrectness :)

pax
01-02-2016, 01:37 PM
I realise this may seem provocative or upsetting to some here, but I truly find it curious that GMs/WGMs/IMs/WIMs are fully exempt from the entry fees, considering they statistically constitute around third of the participants!

Overall, it depends on the objective of the tournament: in the case of the Doeberl, the objective is to be one of the strongest (if not the strongest) events on the Australian calendar. That can only be done by offering favourable conditions to top players (good venue, good prize pool, fee exemptions, some conditions for very top players). If you want to play chess on the cheap, there are many other opportunities.

ludwigra
01-02-2016, 02:30 PM
Well, unless the Doeberl administration suggests providing free flight tickets to foreign GMs, I fail to see how paying additional 1% on top of their total cost will discourage them of coming to Australia to play.

ludwigra
01-02-2016, 02:37 PM
Overall, it depends on the objective of the tournament: in the case of the Doeberl, the objective is to be one of the strongest (if not the strongest) events on the Australian calendar. That can only be done by offering favourable conditions to top players (good venue, good prize pool, fee exemptions, some conditions for very top players). If you want to play chess on the cheap, there are many other opportunities.

Fair enough - but the question I would like to raise in this regard is are you really making the tournament stronger by these incentives given to the strong players, or is it rather a symptom of the high cost incurred by the weaker ones, who are thus being discouraged off participation? if the latter is the case, then this is making the average and median higher, but not truly in terms of the number of titled players. Which then makes the fees a kind of "right of passage" for the weaker players, which is in this case not "fair enough"...

Charles
02-02-2016, 09:48 AM
Well, unless the Doeberl administration suggests providing free flight tickets to foreign GMs, I fail to see how paying additional 1% on top of their total cost will discourage them of coming to Australia to play.

Hi,

I would like to personalise the response but unfortunately cannot find your name so please excuse the impersonal nature of my opening greeting.

Our goal is to provide a quality tournament in Australia that allows our local players to play against a good international field.

Of course we pay the majority of their airfares (through a mix of prize guarantees and direct reimbursement). We also provide accommodation, meals and free entry.

They would not come otherwise as it is too expensive to travel to Australia, the prize money is not great and they lose other opportunities by coming here. These conditions (including free entry) are also all consistent with other international tournaments.

shumsta
02-02-2016, 11:38 AM
For any given tournament, it is obviously up to the organisers. It's their tournament and they can organise it any way they like.

I choose to not play in the Doeberl Cup because I do find the idea of subsidising a bunch of titled players to the tune of $175 a bit galling, and obviously, I'm not alone in my sentiments.

I'd also disagree with the idea on this thread that journeyman GMs are "elite" players. Perhaps back in the day when there was only a handful of GMs in the world this was true, but nowadays there are a couple of thousand GMs out there (!). There aren't many sports in the world where someone who is not even in the top 1000 in the world can be considered "elite". 2700+ is elite, 2500-2700 is just a very strong amateur.

Tournament organisers need to wake up to the fact that these days they are competing with internet chess, where people can play for free. And the old argument of needing strong players to attract the weaker ones just doesn't really hold up any more. No one is going to wave a flag to say that the "weaker players subsidise the strong" model of chess isn't working, it is simply going to show itself in the form of continually dwindling memberships etc.

If I want to play an extremely strong opponent then I need look no further than the dozen or so devices in my house that can play chess at super-GM level (i.e. the level of a truly elite player). I play chess for the pleasure of pitting my wits against a human opponent, but there is a limit to what average punters like me are willing to pay for that experience.

If chess players made more of an effort to make themselves marketable (or even just presentable), then this problem could be solved by sponsorship.

bundys_bro
02-02-2016, 12:27 PM
The doeberl tournament is easily my favourite when I can get to it. I'd never make a fuss over an entry fee to play with the players of this caliber. Playing in the minor event and getting up on stage was and probably will always be my chess playing highlight. It's all about the experience and that was a money can't buy experience one that the doeberl gave me. Not to mention watching my dad beat two high class Gm's in a row one year and win a game check mating with two knights another. You simply have to look at the numbers of participants year in year out to see its a winner.

ER
02-02-2016, 06:18 PM
I choose to not play in the Doeberl Cup...
Correct me if I am wrong but if my memory serves me right, weren't you interested to play at Doeberl last year?

Thebes
02-02-2016, 06:42 PM
Recently the Qatar Open just payed several tens of thousands of dollars for Carlsen to play and paid for literally EVERY expense he and his 3 sisters, parents made while they were there.
It's just the way the Chess world works, the strong players attract the other stronger players just like how it works in Australia except this is at a 2600 strength.
It's the way Chess has been for a long time

ludwigra
02-02-2016, 08:29 PM
Recently the Qatar Open just payed several tens of thousands of dollars for Carlsen to play and paid for literally EVERY expense he and his 3 sisters, parents made while they were there.
It's just the way the Chess world works, the strong players attract the other stronger players just like how it works in Australia except this is at a 2600 strength.
It's the way Chess has been for a long time

I see.
And what I see is that the approved entries so far contain two 2600+ and one 2435 foreign GMs.
I guess this is more of a question to Charles then - for sake of transparency, how does this process work in Australia?
How many foreign GMs for example may be invited under budget? How is it decided whom to contact and why? (and how)
I think it is only fair to provide this information.

ludwigra
02-02-2016, 08:56 PM
Hi Charles,


Hi,

I would like to personalise the response but unfortunately cannot find your name so please excuse the impersonal nature of my opening greeting.



You may use the locution " Barak" after the "Hi" and before the comma :)




Our goal is to provide a quality tournament in Australia that allows our local players to play against a good international field.

Of course we pay the majority of their airfares (through a mix of prize guarantees and direct reimbursement). We also provide accommodation, meals and free entry.

They would not come otherwise as it is too expensive to travel to Australia, the prize money is not great and they lose other opportunities by coming here. These conditions (including free entry) are also all consistent with other international tournaments.



I understand the issues you raise and command the gist of your goals.
Notwithstanding that I hope you may be able to provide me with further answers to alleviate my concerns:

Does this policy apply to all foreign GMs or only 2600+ ones? (Looking back there are typically 3 of those in each Doeberl)
Do local (highly) titled players also enjoy free accommodations?

I am not trying to sound petty or contrarian here (even if it may appear I am doing a good job of it); all I am asking for is more transparency - I realise it is not all going out of "my" pocket (or other players like myself), but it can still make a decision point for me and others - if nothing else then - on the principle of the matter (depending of course upon what views one holds on these matters).

All the best,
Barak

MichaelBaron
02-02-2016, 10:35 PM
So I am curious, if there is an event without foreign GMs/IMs - how many will travel from Interstate to play? Local IMs can be played with in smaller events and its not a big deal for 2000+ players to face them. They are doing so several times every year anyway. It is the strength of the event that makes them special.

Thebes
03-02-2016, 12:33 AM
to quote james morris, he told me chess gets very boring and unmotivating when you're playing the same people over & over.

shumsta
03-02-2016, 11:57 AM
Correct me if I am wrong but if my memory serves me right, weren't you interested to play at Doeberl last year?

You do have a good memory. Yes I was somewhat interested, but in the end I decided against it. One of the reasons was that I thought that the cost was a little bit excessive.

I played once in the 1990s, and yes I agree that it is a great event, however, my point is merely that organisers of OTB chess events need to rethink the way that they organise tournaments etc if they want to grow participation rates. At the moment, the various schools programs provide an enormous and ongoing stream of new players to tournament organisers, but once Mummy and Daddy stop paying the tournament entry fees (i.e., around age 18) then these kids usually drop out of the game. That is of course unless they become titled before that, in which case they don't need to pay for tournaments.

In effect, by EVERYONE sticking to the same "weak subsidise strong", model of chess, organisers are sacrificing the participation of a huge number of players for the benefit of a few IMs and ho-hum GMs, who are too weak to cut it in higher stakes tournaments overseas.

When I played chess in the 1990s, tournaments were generally around the same size or bigger than they are now. Contrast that with the fact that Australia's population has grown significantly since then, and the fact that back then organisers didn't have access to the hordes of kids that play as a result of scholastic chess programs and it is clear that participation rates in OTB chess amongst the broader adult population have fallen dramatically. That's a "fail" for administrators/organisers of the game in my book.

Charles
03-02-2016, 04:53 PM
Hi Barak,

Thanks. To summarise answers: Yes we provide accommodation and prize money guarantee support to local GM's.

Secondly very little of the entry fees goes to support prize money and none of it covers the GM's. Last year there were 49 paying entrants. This is entry fees of $8,575.

Costs (just for the premier)

GST - $780
Chief Arbiter - $750
Second Arbiter - $500
Trophies - $250
Venue - $2000
Scoresheets - $200
FIDE and ACF fees - $500
Staffing - $1100 (this is the premier portion and does not include any of mine or the other directors time only the staff we pay to deliver the tournament administration).

So this is about $6080 leaving approx $2495 to cover the $14550 prize pool. So I need to find $12,055 in prize money each year. For reference when we began running the Doeberl in 2008 the total prize pool was $11300 so there would still be a gap of just under $9000.

None of the registration fees cover any conditions - accommodation or otherwise - for local or overseas GM's.

If you want to have a chat to ask questions and to understand what we think it takes to run a quality tournament please PM me and I will send you a phone number.

Obviously our view of what a quality tournament is and the view of others will differ. A previous writer said our GM's were not that great. I would disagree. Firstly we are getting good at getting very personable and approachable GM's who are good to interact with. Secondly Ganguly was Anand's second and Luke Van Wely is playing in the top pool of the Tata Steel Chess tournament and did quite well. We have also had a range of other top 100 GM's and a number with ratings over 2650 which I think constitutes a pretty strong GM.

I am always fully supportive of working with tournament organisers to build the chess capability in Australia and happy to share knowledge. Also always happy to have constructive chats about what it takes to run OTB tournaments.

So in summary we charge what we think is a reasonable amount for five days of quality chess in the Premier. The figure really isnt related to covering costs etc. If we want to increase quality it really comes down to finding more sponsorship dollars.

ludwigra
03-02-2016, 09:18 PM
Hi Barak,

Thanks. To summarise answers: Yes we provide accommodation and prize money guarantee support to local GM's.

Secondly very little of the entry fees goes to support prize money and none of it covers the GM's. Last year there were 49 paying entrants. This is entry fees of $8,575.

Costs (just for the premier)

...



Thank you Charles for the prompt and long response.
If I have more questions I'll be sure to contact you.
Cheers!

PS (on another though related issue) - Nyssa told me there are current discussions (next 2 weeks) with the University House hotel concerning the negotiated rates (as I have found (and informed of) better ones in WOTIF for same hotel). I am awaiting the outcome of those discussions. Considering we facilitate a full house for them I remain quite unconvinced by the current offering. I have also noticed they are marked as one of the sponsors on the website, so it is quite possible I am missing something vital/subtle here...

Thanks again,
Barak

ludwigra
03-02-2016, 09:24 PM
to quote james morris, he told me chess gets very boring and unmotivating when you're playing the same people over & over.


I agree with James' sentiment - I believe this assertion to be correct at all chess levels.

I would not add anything that original by saying that the real problem is not (to my mind) the population size in Australia or even its remoteness, but more so the general Australian culture of anti- or at least a-intellectualism. One may hope that various trends of globalisation will help to change that; in all events this is quite tangential to the topic at hand.

Capablanca-Fan
06-02-2016, 11:28 AM
At the moment, the various schools programs provide an enormous and ongoing stream of new players to tournament organisers, but once Mummy and Daddy stop paying the tournament entry fees (i.e., around age 18) then these kids usually drop out of the game. That is of course unless they become titled before that, in which case they don't need to pay for tournaments.

In effect, by EVERYONE sticking to the same "weak subsidise strong", model of chess, organisers are sacrificing the participation of a huge number of players for the benefit of a few IMs and ho-hum GMs, who are too weak to cut it in higher stakes tournaments overseas.
Good luck getting stronger players to stay in the game if they can't get some privileges for being GM, unless they crack the top 10%. And the success of the Doerbel shows that they are a drawcard.

Tony Dowden
07-02-2016, 10:19 PM
I've entered the Premier again this year and - with half an eye on some of the posts above - did not find it in the least perturbing that the usual conditions were offered to masters or that I have close to no chance at all of winning any prize money. The Doeberl Cup is an institution in Australia and one of the best events on the annual calendar in this part of the world: high class fields, great playing conditions and a well-oiled organisation.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say it has surely paved the way for other successful events in Australia/NZ that have also offered GM norms such as the Sydney International Open, New Zealand Classic/Open and the Australasian Masters. Don't forget that only a decade or so ago it was unheard of to imagine GM norm events in Australia.

ludwigra
09-02-2016, 01:18 PM
I've entered the Premier again this year and - with half an eye on some of the posts above - did not find it in the least perturbing that the usual conditions were offered to masters or that I have close to no chance at all of winning any prize money. The Doeberl Cup is an institution in Australia and one of the best events on the annual calendar in this part of the world: high class fields, great playing conditions and a well-oiled organisation.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say it has surely paved the way for other successful events in Australia/NZ that have also offered GM norms such as the Sydney International Open, New Zealand Classic/Open and the Australasian Masters. Don't forget that only a decade or so ago it was unheard of to imagine GM norm events in Australia.

Hi Tony,

I was merely stressing the point of the cost for the non GMs/IMs, which basically opens the doors of the tournament to only those who can afford it and not others that may be as good (or better) chess players. I submitted that this goes to strengthen the tournament by making sure there are less players at the tail end of it.

If you'll take a closer look you would see that most of the titled players that are exempt from fees and such are local ones, not foreign invitees. Not many of those unfortunately, despite all efforts to the contrary. When the ratio between oversees invitees and local talent reaches say 50% I shall be willing to concede the points you raise.

I might only be in Oz for 13 years or so and do not posses your historic perspective on things, but I was also under the impression that elitism of any kind goes against the spirit of Australia and shunned upon (I am not sure about NZ having an even lesser perspective into it). One cannot help but feel that "rubbing shoulders" with the titans of chess should not be based on one's financial situation.

All the best,
Barak

MichaelBaron
09-02-2016, 01:51 PM
Hi Tony,

One cannot help but feel that "rubbing shoulders" with the titans of chess should not be based on one's financial situation.



Back to Socialism :).

pax
09-02-2016, 02:31 PM
Hi Tony,

I was merely stressing the point of the cost for the non GMs/IMs, which basically opens the doors of the tournament to only those who can afford it and not others that may be as good (or better) chess players. I submitted that this goes to strengthen the tournament by making sure there are less players at the tail end of it.

If you'll take a closer look you would see that most of the titled players that are exempt from fees and such are local ones, not foreign invitees. Not many of those unfortunately, despite all efforts to the contrary. When the ratio between oversees invitees and local talent reaches say 50% I shall be willing to concede the points you raise.

I might only be in Oz for 13 years or so and do not posses your historic perspective on things, but I was also under the impression that elitism of any kind goes against the spirit of Australia and shunned upon (I am not sure about NZ having an even lesser perspective into it). One cannot help but feel that "rubbing shoulders" with the titans of chess should not be based on one's financial situation.

All the best,
Barak

Your argument makes no sense. As outlined by Charles above, the entry fees cover a fraction of the costs not including conditions for titled players. If the Doeberl did not attract top flight players, Australian players from interstate would most likely not bother. And if it did not attract top players, it would not attract sponsors. What do you want, for the Doeberl to become just another run of the mill weekender with $500 first prize and four players rated over 2200?

ludwigra
09-02-2016, 03:50 PM
Your argument makes no sense. As outlined by Charles above, the entry fees cover a fraction of the costs not including conditions for titled players. If the Doeberl did not attract top flight players, Australian players from interstate would most likely not bother. And if it did not attract top players, it would not attract sponsors. What do you want, for the Doeberl to become just another run of the mill weekender with $500 first prize and four players rated over 2200?

If the entry fees are indeed just a fraction then they could be lowered couldn't they?
I did not say you should remove the other subsidies that are being provided by sponsors.

Also, the amounts charged for the Major and Minor sum up to numbers that exceed the prizes there by several factors (you are welcome to do the math - you might be surprised), and for the players in these events the only way to rub shoulders with the giants is in a more or less a physical manner.
Does that seem fair to you?

Increasing affordability entails increasing the total number of participants; so then possibly better deals can be made with other hotels in the area for people who come with a car (or rent one on the premises) - I was not overly impressed with current accommodation deals to say the least. I think more effort should be made to decrease the cost for the OTHER players (constituting the majority), so that it is more affordable to them! I allow that I am possibly wrong and many come in the main to watch the games of the GMs et al rather than to play chess themselves.

Maybe at some future time these issues I've raised can be put forward to the chess community as a whole (a referendum?!) so whatever the final decision is we know it is corroborated by a seemingly democratic process representing the views within that same community. After all, the Doeberl event is intended (I hope) for everyone (otherwise you might as well close it for the top 20 or so as done in the Australian non-open Championships).

Ian Rogers sums up his foreword to Bill Egan's book on the Doeberl Cup in these words:

"The Doeberl Cup has become more professional in recent years, with larger prizes and the organisers providing hotel rooms for many visiting Grandmasters. Yet the Doeberl Cup has lost nothing of its sense of inclusiveness; chess may be an ocean where an elephant may bathe and a gnat drink, but the Doeberl Cup is also an arena where the gnats may dream of beating the elephants at the crossboard combat..."

You might say that this specific gnat (yours truly) is questioning here that retained sense of inclusiveness.

pax
09-02-2016, 04:37 PM
Also, the amounts charged for the Major and Minor sum up to numbers that exceed the prizes there by several factors (you are welcome to do the math - you might be surprised), and for the players in these events the only way to rub shoulders with the giants is in a more or less a physical manner.

Does that seem fair to you?

Given that there are very significant costs outside prize money, it seems completely fair. Many sports compete at an amateur level with (shock, horror), no prizemoney whatsoever! $30 per day for a nationally leading event at a high quality venue seems like a bargain to me. Most players will pay many times that amount on accommodation and transport.



Increasing affordability entails increasing the total number of participants;

The Doeberl seldom has any difficulty filling its venues to full capacity.



Maybe at some future time these issues I've raised can be put forward to the chess community as a whole (a referendum?!) so whatever the final decision is we know it is corroborated by a seemingly democratic process representing the views within that same community. After all, the Doeberl event is intended (I hope) for everyone (otherwise you might as well close it for the top 20 or so as done in the Australian non-open Championships).

A referendum?!? What do you think this is, democracy?

ludwigra
09-02-2016, 05:52 PM
Given that there are very significant costs outside prize money, it seems completely fair.
Or perhaps the reverse is true...



A referendum?!? What do you think this is, democracy?
:) one may always hope to be part of "the tyranny of the majority", to (mis)quote Mill.

ER
10-02-2016, 10:47 AM
Hey Barak!
Enough of that plebeian anarcho-socialist (is there such a term? I am far past my revolutionary period :P :) ) whinging! Now, come and join us in the aristocratic chambers :)

3052

Doeberl Cup 2015 Photo: Elliott Renzies

Look at Dr Tony Dowden's (right) smiling attitude as he primes himself to face the GM Loek ("King Loek") van Wely in last year's Doeberl! :)

3053

Doeberl Cup 2015 Photo: Elliott Renzies

Will be nice to meet there, share a drink and a yarn! :) Cheers!

ludwigra
10-02-2016, 11:39 AM
Look at Dr Tony Dowden's (right) smiling attitude as he primes himself to face the GM Loek ("King Loek") van Wely in last year's Doeberl! :)

Hey Elliott. Thank you for clarifying - I thought Tony was wincing with pain :)


Will be nice to meet there, share a drink and a yarn! :) Cheers!

No doubt. Cheers!

Tony Dowden
11-02-2016, 06:22 PM
Hi Tony,

I was merely stressing the point of the cost for the non GMs/IMs, which basically opens the doors of the tournament to only those who can afford it and not others that may be as good (or better) chess players. I submitted that this goes to strengthen the tournament by making sure there are less players at the tail end of it ...

All the best,
Barak
Thanks for your reply Barak,
Sometimes I can't afford tournaments too (for instance I didn't get to any of the Queenstown Classic events in NZ), so I do sympathise.
Kind regards, Tony

shumsta
16-02-2016, 09:58 AM
To be fair to the Doeberl and its organisers, it holds a special place in Australian chess, and so the policy of subsidising stronger players may very well be perfectly good in this instance. The fact that it has been supported by Erich Doeberl (in both life and death), and it has always had an easier time attracting sponsors than any other Australian chess tournament means that it has a certain latitude that other tournament organisers don't have. Accordingly, it should not be the model for other tournament organisers to imitate.

It's worth noting that although most strong chess players support the weak subsidise the strong model of chess, there is absolutely no correlation between playing strength and contribution to chess. Erich Doeberl himself is a great example of this, he was a weak player who has made an enormous contribution to the game.

My criticism is aimed at the broader application of this subsidation policy to almost all tournaments in Australia.

The argument that making titled players pay their fair share will result in them not playing is spurious. The simple fact of the matter is that to get a title, you need to have a love of the game. ALL titled players (without exception) love chess, it seems ridiculous to think that after paying to play in tournaments their entire untitled lives that a player will suddenly stop playing because he/she has a certificate from FIDE.

This argument also doesn't stand up when you look at other sports like tennis, poker, golf etc. where strong amateurs (and in chess, at least 95% of GMs are amateurs) pay exactly the same entry fees to tournaments as their weaker counterparts. The grassroots participation levels of these other sports is far healthier than in chess so it behooves chess organisers to do some self-reflection to figure out what they are doing wrong.

MichaelBaron
16-02-2016, 10:26 AM
To be fair to the Doeberl and its organisers, it holds a special place in Australian chess, and so the policy of subsidising stronger players may very well be perfectly good in this instance. The fact that it has been supported by Erich Doeberl (in both life and death), and it has always had an easier time attracting sponsors than any other Australian chess tournament means that it has a certain latitude that other tournament organisers don't have. Accordingly, it should not be the model for other tournament organisers to imitate.

It's worth noting that although most strong chess players support the weak subsidise the strong model of chess, there is absolutely no correlation between playing strength and contribution to chess. Erich Doeberl himself is a great example of this, he was a weak player who has made an enormous contribution to the game.

My criticism is aimed at the broader application of this subsidation policy to almost all tournaments in Australia.

The argument that making titled players pay their fair share will result in them not playing is spurious. The simple fact of the matter is that to get a title, you need to have a love of the game. ALL titled players (without exception) love chess, it seems ridiculous to think that after paying to play in tournaments their entire untitled lives that a player will suddenly stop playing because he/she has a certificate from FIDE.

This argument also doesn't stand up when you look at other sports like tennis, poker, golf etc. where strong amateurs (and in chess, at least 95% of GMs are amateurs) pay exactly the same entry fees to tournaments as their weaker counterparts. The grassroots participation levels of these other sports is far healthier than in chess so it behooves chess organisers to do some self-reflection to figure out what they are doing wrong.

I am wondering if there is any evidence that making titled players pay fees increases participation numbers. At MCC and Canterbury Chess Clubs for instance - offering free entry to titled players (including FMs if they are club members) resulted in growth in participation numbers. In USA, GMs usually have to pay ''conditional entry fee'' - making entry fee payable subject to them winning a prize. At the same time, they still often get free accomodation etc. In Europe, it is standard for GMs to get free accomodation and board (at least) if they are playing Open events. They also get appearance fees. In Macedonia (not a rich country) when they are holding their main open event - all GMs get 100 Euros appearance fees plus full board. 2600+ GMs get more. I can recall Bad-Wiesse (Germany) organisers advertising for GMs to join the field as they wanted to get more. They were offering something like 300 Euros + full board for the 2650+ GMs and 150 Euros + board for other GMs. The very fact that they had to advertise few days before the event to get more titled players suggests that GMs do get choices where to play.

shumsta
22-02-2016, 01:39 PM
I am wondering if there is any evidence that making titled players pay fees increases participation numbers. At MCC and Canterbury Chess Clubs for instance - offering free entry to titled players (including FMs if they are club members) resulted in growth in participation numbers. In USA, GMs usually have to pay ''conditional entry fee'' - making entry fee payable subject to them winning a prize. At the same time, they still often get free accomodation etc. In Europe, it is standard for GMs to get free accomodation and board (at least) if they are playing Open events. They also get appearance fees. In Macedonia (not a rich country) when they are holding their main open event - all GMs get 100 Euros appearance fees plus full board. 2600+ GMs get more. I can recall Bad-Wiesse (Germany) organisers advertising for GMs to join the field as they wanted to get more. They were offering something like 300 Euros + full board for the 2650+ GMs and 150 Euros + board for other GMs. The very fact that they had to advertise few days before the event to get more titled players suggests that GMs do get choices where to play.

Firstly, re the MCC and CCC, are you sure that you are not confusing correlation with causation? Organiser largesse towards lesser titles generally happens when organisers are better funded, which can be a consequence (not necessarily a cause, as you say) of better long term participation rates. Or alternatively, it may be that better participation may have been caused by some unrelated factor (like a booming economy).

Secondly, both the contiguous states of the USA and Europe have vastly higher chess player density than Australia, which means that whilst tournament organisers there compete with each other, tournament organisers here often have monopoly-like control over chess tournaments in a given region for a given weekend (try organising a tournament in Sydney over Easter if you disagree); so the comparison between them and us is a non-sequitur.

Hughston
01-03-2016, 06:52 AM
Hey, I have an ACF rating of 1775 and a FIDE of 1856, and I am a junior. Will I be able to participate in the Premier or must I play in the major?

Thebes
01-03-2016, 12:40 PM
Hey, I have an ACF rating of 1775 and a FIDE of 1856, and I am a junior. Will I be able to participate in the Premier or must I play in the major?

Shaun Press doesn't use Chesschat so you may have to email the organizers

Bill Gletsos
01-03-2016, 04:48 PM
Hey, I have an ACF rating of 1775 and a FIDE of 1856, and I am a junior. Will I be able to participate in the Premier or must I play in the major?According to the Doeberl Cup website to play in the Premier you need to be titled (GM, WGM, IM, WIM, FM, WFM) or have a minimum rating FIDE (1900) or ACF (1800).

By that criteria you do not qualify.

jammo
01-03-2016, 05:09 PM
Shaun Press doesn't use Chesschat so you may have to email the organizers

Smart guy. There are too many nutters and bad spellers here.

Hughston
01-03-2016, 05:14 PM
According to the Doeberl Cup website to play in the Premier you need to be titled (GM, WGM, IM, WIM, FM, WFM) or have a minimum rating FIDE (1900) or ACF (1800).

By that criteria you do not qualify.

But if they provide a little leeway for juniors.

Thebes
01-03-2016, 05:20 PM
Shaun has told me in the past he receives a lot of emails asking for exceptions and thats not how they do it

Hughston
01-03-2016, 05:20 PM
Shaun has told me in the past he receives a lot of emails asking for exceptions and thats not how they do it

So is there any way of getting into premier?

that Caesar guy
01-03-2016, 06:03 PM
But if they provide a little leeway for juniors.

They definitely have provided leeway in the past so I'd say you'd have a reasonably good chance to qualify, unless there are too many entrants and the playing list fills out

Vlad
01-03-2016, 09:15 PM
I 2010 Anton was 9, his ACF was 1783, Fide was 1868. I contacted the organizers - the response was "No".

He had a pretty average result in the major that year. In SIO, which was a week later and which allowed Anton to play in the main section, he performed at 2160 and gained 45 rating points.

So while I agree that there is a huge difference for you between playing in the premier rather than in the major in terms of gaining rating points, in the past there were cases with similar circumstances when juniors were not allowed in the premier.

Thebes
01-03-2016, 09:17 PM
I 2010 Anton was 9, his ACF was 1783, Fide was 1868. I contacted the organizers - the response was "No".

Yeah I was under the impression there is no leeway but I'm new to Chess so there may have been unique cases in the past.

I think it was last year Tom Magurie or someone else was allowed in because their rating was either over when they registered or he played in tournaments and went over while he was entered. I could be wrong on the name

Charles
01-03-2016, 10:21 PM
Hi all,

We try to provide a fair and consistent approach. In some years this has meant that we have informed older players who have played in the premier previously and have had a rating drop that they were only eligible for the Major. As Vlad points out we have also said no to up and coming juniors at certain stages as they fall just short of the criteria. To be clear this applies to everyone including my own son who in 2012 was rated 1810 FIDE and 1788 ACF. He played in the Major as he was 12 points short. In 2013 he got his rating high enough to play in the Premier. The SIO was an open tournament and took entries from every player down to unrated players if they paid enough money. Our goal is to provide good competitive chess in all our tournaments from the first round. This is the purpose of the rating floor and ratings overlap.

We do make a couple of exceptions which are on our rules page. See below.

Changes in Rating following Registration and Payment
Should an eligible player register and pay for a tournament and then become ineligible due to a decline in their rating they will retain their position within that tournament.

In the situation where a rise in rating makes a player ineligible for the tournament they have registered and paid for they will be moved into the next highest tournament they are eligible for. Players in this situation will be offered a refund of entry fees as an alternative to playing in the higher tournament.

Tony Dowden
01-03-2016, 11:01 PM
Hey, I have an ACF rating of 1775 and a FIDE of 1856, and I am a junior. Will I be able to participate in the Premier or must I play in the major?
Hi 'Hughston', If things start to go badly there are no easy games in the Premier. Why not play in the Major this year, do well and gain lots of rating points - thereby proving you are ready for the Premier next year? Cheers, Tony

StokesyRedcliff
08-03-2016, 09:20 PM
I notice the various tournaments of the Doeberl Cup 2016 have capped numbers and some are two-thirds full already! Do not leave it too late to enter or you could miss out!

Charles
09-03-2016, 05:42 AM
I notice the various tournaments of the Doeberl Cup 2016 have capped numbers and some are two-thirds full already! Do not leave it too late to enter or you could miss out!

Yes - especially the U1200's! Don't know what is happening there but we only have three spots left open. We will put in a waiting list after that. If we are full in the U1200's unrated players or players with a rating under 1600 may play in the Minor. Note we are once again FIDE rating the Minor.

Tom M
09-03-2016, 11:53 AM
Yeah I was under the impression there is no leeway but I'm new to Chess so there may have been unique cases in the past.

I think it was last year Tom Magurie or someone else was allowed in because their rating was either over when they registered or he played in tournaments and went over while he was entered. I could be wrong on the name

That was not me. I think both my ratings were sufficient. The person you are probably referring to was Tom Slater-Jones, whose ACF rating was sufficient when he registered for the Premier but dropped below on the March 2015 list.

guruduff
09-03-2016, 09:15 PM
i am driving down from northern NSW (mullumbimby)leaving early Thursday if anyone in brisi/ gc wants a lift. (that would mean a bye rd1 premier)i am staying on in canberra afterwards so you need separate return travel.

Kaitlin
10-03-2016, 11:23 AM
Does your vehicle have air conditioner and a cup holder ?

guruduff
10-03-2016, 10:03 PM
Does your vehicle have air conditioner and a cup holder ?

yes...and it is cheap on petrol, plays the banjo, and always waves at kombis...

ludwigra
11-03-2016, 05:59 PM
Hi Charles,

Is there a plan to update the Doeberl's ratings on the web site to the March FIDE/ACF values?

Thanks!

ludwigra
11-03-2016, 06:04 PM
Hi,

If anyone is interested in a ride, I am driving into Canberra from Western Sydney (Emu Plains, but can pick up someone close enough) at noon the 23rd.

Cheers!

Charles
13-03-2016, 07:04 AM
Hi,

We typically don't do this anymore as Shaun has begun putting the entries into Swiss Manager which will be uploaded to the website. It will import all of updated ACF/FIDE ratings.

ludwigra
13-03-2016, 08:34 PM
Hi,

We typically don't do this anymore as Shaun has begun putting the entries into Swiss Manager which will be uploaded to the website. It will import all of updated ACF/FIDE ratings.

OK, thanks - so, to sum up, this will be updated within the rounds/pairings context.

Chris Ball
14-03-2016, 08:59 AM
Well I'm looking forward to the Doeberl Cup this Easter. See you all there.

Alana
15-03-2016, 12:20 PM
OK, thanks - so, to sum up, this will be updated within the rounds/pairings context.

If you go to chess-results.com and click on Australia, Shaun has already done the Premier with updated ratings. The link is also here: http://chess-results.com/tnr212065.aspx?lan=1

I'm assuming the Major will show up soon if it hasn't already.

For the Minor and U1200 they will be available on the website in due course.

ludwigra
15-03-2016, 08:04 PM
If you go to chess-results.com and click on Australia, Shaun has already done the Premier with updated ratings. The link is also here: http://chess-results.com/tnr212065.aspx?lan=1

I'm assuming the Major will show up soon if it hasn't already.

For the Minor and U1200 they will be available on the website in due course.

Thanks!

Alana
16-03-2016, 04:36 PM
The Major list of players has also been posted on chess-results.com

Alana
16-03-2016, 04:41 PM
The ANU Chess Club presents the 2016 Pre Doeberl Blitz event.


Venue: University House, ANU (Doeberl Cup venue)
DOP: IA Shaun Press
Date: Wednesday 23 March
Registration: 7pm
Start: 7:15pm
Rounds: 9
Time Control: G/5m
Entry Fee: Free!
For Enquiries: Shaun Press shaunpress@gmail.com

smellysocks7
16-03-2016, 06:48 PM
Just found the Major on chess-results.com: http://chess-results.com/tnr212600.aspx?lan=1

Kaitlin
16-03-2016, 08:42 PM
Well done.... :)
Alana is tricky at putting clues :uhoh:

Thebes
16-03-2016, 08:59 PM
Entry Fee: Free!


Why the generosity this year? :o

Alana
17-03-2016, 06:39 PM
Why the generosity this year? :o

Thomas - this event is always free at ANU Chess Club. The event during Doeberl on the Saturday night is the one that costs money and has prize money up for grabs.

Alana
17-03-2016, 06:40 PM
Just found the Major on chess-results.com: http://chess-results.com/tnr212600.aspx?lan=1

Apologies - my comment before was slightly early - I had been with Shaun when he typed the games in but didn't realise he hadn't pressed upload! All good now :)

Alana
17-03-2016, 06:42 PM
The ANU Chess Club presents the 2016 Pre Doeberl Blitz event.


Venue: University House, ANU (Doeberl Cup venue)
DOP: IA Shaun Press
Date: Wednesday 23 March
Registration: 7pm
Start: 7:15pm
Rounds: 9
Time Control: G/5m
Entry Fee: Free!
For Enquiries: Shaun Press shaunpress@gmail.com

As an extra incentive to play in this FREE event, the highest scoring player in each Doeberl division (Premier, Major, Minor, U1200) gets to choose their round 1 colour for their division!

doubleroo
19-03-2016, 08:21 AM
To be fair to the Doeberl and its organisers, it holds a special place in Australian chess, and so the policy of subsidising stronger players may very well be perfectly good in this instance. The fact that it has been supported by Erich Doeberl (in both life and death), and it has always had an easier time attracting sponsors than any other Australian chess tournament means that it has a certain latitude that other tournament organisers don't have. Accordingly, it should not be the model for other tournament organisers to imitate.

It's worth noting that although most strong chess players support the weak subsidise the strong model of chess, there is absolutely no correlation between playing strength and contribution to chess. Erich Doeberl himself is a great example of this, he was a weak player who has made an enormous contribution to the game.

My criticism is aimed at the broader application of this subsidation policy to almost all tournaments in Australia.

The argument that making titled players pay their fair share will result in them not playing is spurious. The simple fact of the matter is that to get a title, you need to have a love of the game. ALL titled players (without exception) love chess, it seems ridiculous to think that after paying to play in tournaments their entire untitled lives that a player will suddenly stop playing because he/she has a certificate from FIDE.

This argument also doesn't stand up when you look at other sports like tennis, poker, golf etc. where strong amateurs (and in chess, at least 95% of GMs are amateurs) pay exactly the same entry fees to tournaments as their weaker counterparts. The grassroots participation levels of these other sports is far healthier than in chess so it behooves chess organisers to do some self-reflection to figure out what they are doing wrong.

Correct, all titled players love Chess and I am no exception. I often play in my local clubs and against friends. When it comes to tournaments though, I am more selective. What is the cost involved? What are my statistical chances of covering my costs or making a profit? Have I been to the location before? What are my alternatives?

Having foreign titled players, especially famous ones, is a good idea for many reasons. Title norms, experience against elite competition and FIDE ratings are just some of these reasons. The organisers have, in my opinion, done a good job in recent years of providing these opportunities to our young players. The proof is in the ongoing success of the event.

No event can cater for everyone. It may not be perfectly suited to you or I but that doesn't mean the model is flawed.

Narelle
20-03-2016, 05:56 PM
I'm very glad to see that the minor is now FIDE rated. Well done to the Doeberl Cup organisers.

Thebes
20-03-2016, 06:01 PM
It was FIDE rated last year too, not too many people had a FIDE rating though. This year doesn't look too different either.

Narelle
21-03-2016, 02:26 AM
Last year about 36% of the players were FIDE rated. This year about 43% of the players are FIDE rated.

ER
21-03-2016, 12:59 PM
Last year about 36% of the players were FIDE rated. This year about 43% of the players are FIDE rated.

Hi Narelle! are you playing?

Narelle
21-03-2016, 06:48 PM
Hi Elliott,


Unfortunately I won't be playing. I will be busy doing uni assignments and working. If I did play I would have to play in the major though. I still take an interest in whether or not tournaments are FIDE rated as I believe it is good for Australian chess to have more FIDE rated players.

Good Luck at Doeberl.

ER
22-03-2016, 01:21 PM
Hi Elliott,


Unfortunately I won't be playing. I will be busy doing uni assignments and working. If I did play I would have to play in the major though. I still take an interest in whether or not tournaments are FIDE rated as I believe it is good for Australian chess to have more FIDE rated players.

Good Luck at Doeberl.

Hi Narelle, thanks for your wishes! :) (bzzt I need as much luck as I can get)! :)

I am with you on that (FIDE) and I agree!

Of course priorities such as work and studying are very important. Chess can wait for some time until you are ready
to come back to it with more enthusiasm!

Nice to see you playing tournament chess though (HBCC) good luck!

Talk soon!

Cheers and good luck!

E.

Altecman
22-03-2016, 05:31 PM
Broadcast link for the premier: https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/doeberl-cup-2016/1/1/1

The Major and Minor will also be broadcasted, and will be done on the ACF Website: http://auschess.org.au/acf/live-games/online-dgt-room-a/

Kaitlin
22-03-2016, 06:14 PM
Broadcast link for the premier: https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/doeberl-cup-2016/1/1/1

The Major and Minor will also be broadcasted, and will be done on the ACF Website: http://auschess.org.au/acf/live-games/online-dgt-room-a/

Will there be move feed for relay or only those two things.

Altecman
24-03-2016, 01:45 PM
Doeberl is Live. https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/doeberl-cup-2016/1/1/8

Adamski
24-03-2016, 04:38 PM
My Rooty Hill clubmate Barak got board 1 in round 1 v Hrant. Best wishes to him for the rest of the tournament plus the many other RH players - including all the Lane family.

Kevin Bonham
24-03-2016, 07:49 PM
Kanan Izzat (black vs Luis Chan) and Bobby Cheng (white vs Paul Broekhuyse) held to draws in the first round.

Denis_Jessop
24-03-2016, 11:17 PM
Live games are also on the Follow Chess App (Android or Mac)

DJ

Kevin Bonham
24-03-2016, 11:24 PM
Boyd 1-0 Illingworth

Desmond
24-03-2016, 11:30 PM
Boyd 1-0 IllingworthLate finish. Any other games still going?

Kevin Bonham
25-03-2016, 01:34 AM
Late finish. Any other games still going?

Not sure. Only seven games were being broadcast live.

Thebes
25-03-2016, 07:32 AM
Not sure. Only seven games were being broadcast live.

There is an half an hour delay on the DGT boards. But the last game of the night was Trevor Tao and Jason Hu, went past 11:30

Kaitlin
25-03-2016, 11:56 AM
:eek: ..... so only liviesh

Altecman
25-03-2016, 01:57 PM
Premier is 30 minute delay on https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/doeberl-cup-2016/3/1/1

Major and Minor is live http://auschess.org.au/acf/live-games/online-dgt-room-a/

Kaitlin
25-03-2016, 02:16 PM
Premier is 30 minute delay on https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/doeberl-cup-2016/3/1/1

Major and Minor is live http://auschess.org.au/acf/live-games/online-dgt-room-a/

You should change the start time on that site to 1:30 and 8:00 pm ..... probably then the "live now" symbol won't come up till its actually going..

Altecman
25-03-2016, 03:48 PM
You should change the start time on that site to 1:30 and 8:00 pm ..... probably then the "live now" symbol won't come up till its actually going..

Changing the start times can have other more serious issues such as the players themselves getting confused with the start times, rather than the nitpicking issue of live chat bubbles and the like. The delay is in place to satisfy anti-cheating recommendations

Kaitlin
25-03-2016, 04:01 PM
Don't tell them ... just on the site. Or ask the site to do 1 for 1:30... or 13:00 + 0:30 in their start time list. That would be good since it seems "live delays" are becoming popular.

I'll tell them ... found the section. (didn't work)

Here's what I sent .. but I had to send it to their Facebook cause I'm not a member to use Support

Hi, this is a suggestion. Since "live delays" are becoming common in the watch live section could the start time be indicated as eg 13:00 + 30 .. if it's a 30 minute delay. In Doeberl relay today the list said "live now" but there were no games going because of the delay and people thought it wasn't working because it was broken, so they left. I ask the Doeberl people if they could put the start time on chess24 later to match when the relay starts and they said no, as it might confuse the players.

Thanks for considering
Kait

pax
26-03-2016, 12:42 PM
Boyd 1-0 Illingworth

And now Ikeda, Trizza is on fire!

Kevin Bonham
26-03-2016, 02:03 PM
And now Ikeda, Trizza is on fire!

Serious IM norm potential there ... I'll check how that's panning out in a couple of rounds.

Kaitlin
26-03-2016, 02:38 PM
Wow.. Anton and James leading.. with Hrant... , going into Round 6

MichaelBaron
26-03-2016, 08:48 PM
Puccini also rocks. On the negative side, Izzat and Illingworth are not playing that well. As for James, was watching his games against Zhao and Ganguly online a bit (well..just following and reading computer analysis) overall, his level of play is very good in this tournament so far!

Vlad
26-03-2016, 10:56 PM
Serious IM norm potential there ... I'll check how that's panning out in a couple of rounds.

Unfortunately no norms in Doeberl this year - not enough foreign players...:(

Adamski
26-03-2016, 11:21 PM
Good to see Barak has recovered well from round 1 to have 3.5/6. In Round 7 he plays evergreen Kiwi Bob Smith.

AzureBlue
26-03-2016, 11:30 PM
Unfortunately no norms in Doeberl this year - not enough foreign players...:(
James and Anton are doing really well performing 2600+ atm, and will have played at least 3 GMs and a couple of federations so it may be possible! :) :)

Kevin Bonham
26-03-2016, 11:42 PM
Unfortunately no norms in Doeberl this year - not enough foreign players...:(

Yes Tristan unfortunately can't get a norm now although he is performing at about the right level, as he has just drawn a sixth Australian opponent.

It is in theory possible for an Australian player to get a norm if their pairings include four of the eight foreign players in the tournament. The most likely combination would be Ganguly, Izzat, Melkuyman and Li. A non-Australian player would need to play three of the other seven.

Kevin Bonham
26-03-2016, 11:49 PM
James and Anton are doing really well performing 2600+ atm, and will have played at least 3 GMs and a couple of federations so it may be possible! :) :)

James has three federations including round 7 and Anton two. The problem for James is that he has to keep scoring well but with Kanan having a total shocker, the best-placed foreigner he hasn't faced yet is Luke Li who is a point behind him. Anton has a bigger problem - he hasn't yet played James!

Capablanca-Fan
27-03-2016, 10:11 AM
Would be good to have some games here for posterity.

MichaelBaron
27-03-2016, 12:01 PM
James has three federations including round 7 and Anton two. The problem for James is that he has to keep scoring well but with Kanan having a total shocker, the best-placed foreigner he hasn't faced yet is Luke Li who is a point behind him. Anton has a bigger problem - he hasn't yet played James!

And James is having a great position against Melkumian right now (close to +2 according to computer despite equal material) so definitely performing at 2600+ if he wins this one. When you play that well, absence of GM norm due to the number of foreign players participating is indeed disappointing.

Kevin Bonham
27-03-2016, 12:56 PM
Melkumyan - Morris. Great game by black. Perhaps white's 13th gives black too much play but to beat a GM this convincingly on the black side of this opening is impressive.

1.Nf3 d5 2.d4 Nf6 3.c4 e6 4.g3 Be7 5.Bg2 0-0 6.0-0 c6 7.Nc3 Nbd7 8.Qd3 b6 9.Rd1 Ba6 10.b3 Rc8 11.a4 Bb4 12.Bb2 Qe7 13.Nd2 e5 14.e3 e4 15.Qc2 h5 16.Ne2 Ng4 17.h3 Nh6 18.a5 b5 19.Rdc1 h4 20.cxd5 cxd5 21.Qd1 hxg3 22.fxg3 Nf5 23.Nf1 Bd6 24.Rxc8 Rxc8 25.Rc1 Rxc1 26.Bxc1 b4 27.g4 Nh4 28.Neg3 Nf6 29.Qc2 Qc7 30.Qxc7 Bxc7 31.Bd2 Bxa5 32.Be1 g5 33.Nf5 Nxf5 34.gxf5 Bc8 35.Ng3 Bc7 36.Bf1 a5 37.Be2 Bxg3 38.Bxg3 a4 39.bxa4 b3 40.Bd1 b2 41.Bc2 Ba6 42.Bb1 Bd3 43.Ba2 b1=Q+ 44.Bxb1 Bxb1 45.Kf2 Bd3 46.Bc7 Ne8 47.Bd8 f6 48.Kg3 Kf7 49.h4 gxh4+ 50.Kxh4 Nd6 51.Kg4 Be2+ 52.Kf4 Ne8 0-1

Richards - Li is showing as a draw but surely Li won - I suppose if he wins again next round James might still play him!

rookie999
27-03-2016, 02:02 PM
Just wondering if the games are or will be available in pgn format for download?

Kevin Bonham
27-03-2016, 03:24 PM
It is possible on the chess24 site to copy and paste games and get the PGN, from the clickdown menu on the broadcasts just under the black player's name. At least that's how I got the game above. Don't know what else will be provided or when.

My calculations are that James needs 1/2 and to play Luke Li (who is white against Zhao this round) in the final round for a GM norm. For colour reasons this may well require some combination of results such that Luke is the highest-scoring player James has not already played.

Izzat appears to be out of the tournament.

ER
27-03-2016, 03:26 PM
A sudden and serious illness cut my preparations for the Doeberl Cup short, and instead of the train station I ended up straight from the ambulance to an operating theatre at Alfred Hospital Melbourne. Everything under control now. Resting and taking it easy. I wish you all and your families a very happy Easter. Cheers and good luck!
Charles, my apologies for not making it!

Kevin Bonham
27-03-2016, 05:54 PM
Everything under control now. Resting and taking it easy.

That is good to see.

Not looking good for James' GM norm chances as while he is doing well against Tao, Anton is winning while Luke is not.

Thebes
27-03-2016, 06:23 PM
That is good to see.

Not looking good for James' IM norm chances as while he is doing well against Tao, Anton is winning while Luke is not.

Anton won and Luke drew, James beat Trevor
Hopefully James gets paired against Luke but considering Ganguly has already Anton, and James and Anton haven't played not looking well

Kevin Bonham
27-03-2016, 07:03 PM
The norm rules are a bit silly really. James could lose to almost any foreign player in the field in the final round and get the norm but because he doesn't play a foreign player in the final round he misses out.

Oh well it is a GM-strength performance anyway!

Garvinator
27-03-2016, 07:18 PM
The norm rules are a bit silly really. James could lose to almost any foreign player in the field in the final round and get the norm but because he doesn't play a foreign player in the final round he misses out.

Oh well it is a GM-strength performance anyway!
Apparently in his hey day this is how Stephen Solomon missed out on quite a few GM norms. Would put in a GM strength performance, but not meet one of the criteria.

jammo
27-03-2016, 08:01 PM
The norm rules are a bit silly really. James could lose to almost any foreign player in the field in the final round and get the norm but because he doesn't play a foreign player in the final round he misses out.

Oh well it is a GM-strength performance anyway!

Perhaps James is stealing Max's spot in the Olympiad team? 3 bad events in a row....

Andy009
27-03-2016, 08:02 PM
Great performance by James Morris with 7/8.i hope he continues to do justice to his great talent!:clap:

Kevin Bonham
27-03-2016, 08:15 PM
Smirnov - Morris, Zhao - Ganguly and Melkumyan - Bjelobrk are the top pairings.

A few notable results: Tony Dowden (who I see now has the title AGM - I assume that's online Arena Grandmaster?) beat Ikeda, and David Beaumont drew with Illingworth, who he has previously beaten.

Tony Dowden
27-03-2016, 08:51 PM
A sudden and serious illness cut my preparations for the Doeberl Cup short...Everything under control now. Resting and taking it easy. I wish you all and your families a very happy Easter ...

Glad to hear you are OK now :) We missed you of course - and you missed out on a splendid Easter egg, well Easter kiwi actually. Take it easy :cool:

dannyk
27-03-2016, 08:54 PM
The norm rules are a bit silly really. James could lose to almost any foreign player in the field in the final round and get the norm but because he doesn't play a foreign player in the final round he misses out.

Oh well it is a GM-strength performance anyway!

Wow that is a strange situation

Nikolaos
27-03-2016, 08:59 PM
James in on fire in this tournament well done, his last 2 games were brilliant

Tony Dowden
27-03-2016, 09:00 PM
Smirnov - Morris, Zhao - Ganguly and Melkumyan - Bjelobrk are the top pairings.

A few notable results: Tony Dowden (who I see now has the title AGM - I assume that's online Arena Grandmaster?) beat Ikeda, and David Beaumont drew with Illingworth, who he has previously beaten.
Yes, Arena GM (from playing 50 rapid games in the Arena at 2000+ perf last year) - I don't know why it count outside the Arena though. Very happy to beat Junta who got too ambitious with a queenside expansion and allowed me counter with pawn pushes e2-e4 and f4-f5-f6 which won an exchange. I forced simplification to a technically won ending and, despite him fighting tooth and nail, I managed to win.

Kevin Bonham
27-03-2016, 09:09 PM
Morris - Tao. A similar story, give him an inch and he takes a mile.

1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 b6 3.g3 Ba6 4.d3 Bb4+ 5.Nc3 f5 6.Bg2 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Bb7 8.Qb3 Nf6 9.Ba3 Qc8 10.c5 Na6 11.Rb1 Bc6 12.cxb6 axb6 13.0-0 Nc5 14.Bxc5 bxc5 15.Qc4 0-0 16.Qxc5 Rxa2 17.Rfe1 Qa8 18.Qe5 Rc8 19.c4 h6 20.h3 Ra5 21.Qc3 d6 22.Ra1 Rxa1 23.Rxa1 Qb7 24.c5 Nd7 25.cxd6 cxd6 26.Qd4 Bd5 27.Ra7 Qc6 28.e4 fxe4 29.dxe4 Bxe4 30.Rxd7 Qxd7 31.Qxe4 Qf7 32.h4 Rf8 33.Qc6 e5 34.Qxd6 e4 35.Ne5 Qxf2+ 36.Kh1 Qa2 37.Ng6 Rf2 38.Qd8+ Kf7 39.Nh8+ Ke6 40.Bh3+ Ke5 41.Ng6# 1-0

pax
27-03-2016, 09:13 PM
Perhaps James is stealing Max's spot in the Olympiad team? 3 bad events in a row....

He's certainly put himself squarely into contention for the Olympiad team, but I don't think there's any way you could exclude Australia's newest GM!

pax
27-03-2016, 09:15 PM
The norm rules are a bit silly really. James could lose to almost any foreign player in the field in the final round and get the norm but because he doesn't play a foreign player in the final round he misses out.

Oh well it is a GM-strength performance anyway!

It used to be possible to bend the norm rules; I presume it's not possible any more to make a case based on this observation?

Kevin Bonham
27-03-2016, 09:52 PM
It used to be possible to bend the norm rules; I presume it's not possible any more to make a case based on this observation?

I'm not aware of any scope for bending norm rules with the current QC; they are careful to avoid any perception of any dodgy subjective decisions. The one case of rule-bending I do recall in my time involved a direct CM title for a junior tournament.

Lobbying to have a rule change made and made retrospective is all I can think of.

If I recall someone here missed a norm in one event because the number of foreign players was too low by one because one withdrew before a tournament started.

Zane
28-03-2016, 12:04 AM
Lack of International GM's is due to the disappearance of the Sydney International Open in my opinion, as there is no longer a follow up tournament for International GM's to potentially make extra money in a short time span.

Hrant Melkumyan is here because of Emma Guo and Kanan Izzat lives in Australia, so basically with Ganguly we only have one visiting GM or IM.

I think the ACF needs to find potential Organisers for another International Open Tournament just before or after the Doeberl Cup with similar price money. This combined with some lecture and coaching opportunities would perhaps make it more attractive for visiting GMs and IMs.

Capablanca-Fan
28-03-2016, 02:31 AM
Yes, Arena GM (from playing 50 rapid games in the Arena at 2000+ perf last year) - I don't know why it count outside the Arena though. Very happy to beat Junta who got too ambitious with a queenside expansion and allowed me counter with pawn pushes e2-e4 and f4-f5-f6 which won an exchange. I forced simplification to a technically won ending and, despite him fighting tooth and nail, I managed to win.

Will ChessChat people be able to see this game here?

Capablanca-Fan
28-03-2016, 02:41 AM
Melkumyan - Morris. Great game by black. Perhaps white's 13th gives black too much play but to beat a GM this convincingly on the black side of this opening is impressive.

1.Nf3 d5 2.d4 Nf6 3.c4 e6 4.g3 Be7 5.Bg2 0-0 6.0-0 c6 7.Nc3 Nbd7 8.Qd3 b6 9.Rd1 Ba6 10.b3 Rc8 11.a4 Bb4 12.Bb2 Qe7 13.Nd2 e5 14.e3 e4 15.Qc2 h5 16.Ne2 Ng4 17.h3 Nh6 18.a5 b5 19.Rdc1 h4 20.cxd5 cxd5 21.Qd1 hxg3 22.fxg3 Nf5 23.Nf1 Bd6 24.Rxc8 Rxc8 25.Rc1 Rxc1 26.Bxc1 b4 27.g4 Nh4 28.Neg3 Nf6 29.Qc2 Qc7 30.Qxc7 Bxc7 31.Bd2 Bxa5 32.Be1 g5 33.Nf5 Nxf5 34.gxf5 Bc8 35.Ng3 Bc7 36.Bf1 a5 37.Be2 Bxg3 38.Bxg3 a4 39.bxa4 b3 40.Bd1 b2 41.Bc2 Ba6 42.Bb1 Bd3 43.Ba2 b1=Q+ 44.Bxb1 Bxb1 45.Kf2 Bd3 46.Bc7 Ne8 47.Bd8 f6 48.Kg3 Kf7 49.h4 gxh4+ 50.Kxh4 Nd6 51.Kg4 Be2+ 52.Kf4 Ne8 0-1
James really outplayed the GM here. Gained a strong space advantage and allowed no counterplay, and 26... b4 separated White's Q-side Ps. The final position shows great minor piece cooperation: Black threatens ...Ng7-h5 mate, so White's K must abandon the f-pawn.

Capablanca-Fan
28-03-2016, 02:47 AM
He's certainly put himself squarely into contention for the Olympiad team, but I don't think there's any way you could exclude Australia's newest GM!

Probably true, but he is really having a shocker here for some reason, including losing with White to Kiwi veteran FM Bob Smith. Hope he recovers his usual form soon.

Bereaved
28-03-2016, 08:08 AM
One game to go....You can do it James!!! HAIL CAESAR!!
Take care and God bless, Bereaved

rookie999
28-03-2016, 09:35 AM
Smirnov- Morris - neither player spotted 9... Nxg4 ?

davidiscool
28-03-2016, 10:00 AM
Hi Kevin,

Can you provide a link to the live games in the Major? I can't seem to find the website (I have been told it's "Room A"

Thank you, cheers, Jim Cannon

Kaitlin
28-03-2016, 10:11 AM
On mine it said "this plugin is not available" or similar... but then I've just got android mobile now :( .

Kaitlin
28-03-2016, 10:13 AM
One game to go....You can do it James!!! HAIL CAESAR!!
Take care and God bless, Bereaved
Is James middle name Caesar ... :uhoh: ...... rofl :laugh: :laugh: rofl

MichaelBaron
28-03-2016, 10:22 AM
Is James middle name Caesar ... :uhoh: ...... rofl :laugh: :laugh: rofl

This nickname originates from the times there was a ''fightclub'' at MCC and he would dress up as Caesar before playing. And I believe the fightclub is coming back soon...so Ceasar may be back as well :)

Adamski
28-03-2016, 10:33 AM
A sudden and serious illness cut my preparations for the Doeberl Cup short, and instead of the train station I ended up straight from the ambulance to an operating theatre at Alfred Hospital Melbourne. Everything under control now. Resting and taking it easy. I wish you all and your families a very happy Easter. Cheers and good luck!Very sorry to hear that, Elliott, but pleased things are under control now. Do take it easy.

Adamski
28-03-2016, 10:56 AM
James' tournament has been very impressive - regardless of the result against Anton.

rookie999
28-03-2016, 11:05 AM
Not sure I'd want Caesar for a nick - it ended rather badly for him as I recall... :P

Kevin Bonham
28-03-2016, 11:13 AM
Hi Kevin,

Can you provide a link to the live games in the Major? I can't seem to find the website (I have been told it's "Room A"

Thank you, cheers, Jim Cannon

http://auschess.org.au/acf/live-games/online-dgt-room-a/

Kevin Bonham
28-03-2016, 11:17 AM
Smirnov- Morris - neither player spotted 9... Nxg4 ?

A big miss, here's the line:

1.d4 e6 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.f3 d5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 0-0 7.cxd5 exd5 8.e3 Bf5 9.g4 Nxg4 (Not played) 10.fxg4 Qh4+ 11.Kd2 Be4 12.Nf3 Qf2+ 13.Qe2 Qxf3 14.Qxf3 Bxf3

Kevin Bonham
28-03-2016, 11:26 AM
Cheng - Lane. A great move 12.Bf3 by Bobby.

1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.c4 dxc4 5.0-0 Nbd7 6.Qc2 Nb6 7.Na3 Be6 8.Ng5 Bg4 9.Nxc4 Bxe2 10.Ne5 Bh5 11.Re1 e6 12.Bf3 Bg6 13.Bxc6+ bxc6 14.Qxc6+ Nbd7 15.Nxg6 hxg6 16.Nxf7 Qb6 17.Qxb6 Nxb6 18.Nxh8 Bc5 19.d4 Bxd4 20.Rxe6+ Kd7 21.Re2 1-0

Altecman
28-03-2016, 11:44 AM
Top 2 boards draw, Morris wins outright.

Ian CCC
28-03-2016, 11:45 AM
http://auschess.org.au/acf/live-games/online-dgt-room-a/

Unfortunately, the broadcast seemed to stop with the R4 games.

Kaitlin
28-03-2016, 11:48 AM
Top 2 boards draw, Morris wins outright.

Well done James :)

MichaelBaron
28-03-2016, 12:03 PM
A sudden and serious illness cut my preparations for the Doeberl Cup short, and instead of the train station I ended up straight from the ambulance to an operating theatre at Alfred Hospital Melbourne. Everything under control now. Resting and taking it easy. I wish you all and your families a very happy Easter. Cheers and good luck!
Charles, my apologies for not making it!

Wishing you speedy recovery. Looking forward to your return to the chess scene.

MichaelBaron
28-03-2016, 12:05 PM
Cheng - Lane. A great move 12.Bf3 by Bobby.


Indeed. Black should have realized that Bxe2 is not safe in such positions with king still in the center.

Bereaved
28-03-2016, 01:03 PM
Well done James!! HAIL CAESAR!!

Thai Ly
28-03-2016, 01:15 PM
Congratulations James. Well deserved win.

AzureBlue
28-03-2016, 01:29 PM
Congrats James, well played!! :) Unfortunate to miss a norm due to # federations despite performing at GM level, but winning Doeberl and gaining a ton of points is nice too :)

SharathGM
28-03-2016, 01:50 PM
Champion James !! Deserving start !! See you soon in the list of Top 100 chess players :)

Adamski
28-03-2016, 02:25 PM
I, too, congratulate James on what must be the highlight of his career thus far. More to come, no doubt!

MichaelBaron
28-03-2016, 02:56 PM
Melkumyan-Bjelbork has been going on for 85 moves..and may be more to come :)

ER
28-03-2016, 03:06 PM
Thanks, Adamski, Kevin and Michael for your kind words and wishes! :) the health thing was bad but missing the Doeberl gig was worse! :) see you all soon!

Kevin Bonham
28-03-2016, 03:55 PM
Congrats James! Good to see excellent play in key games rewarded with an outright win at the end.

James is the first Australian winner of the tournament in nine years; the last was Ian Rogers! I suspect others have tied for first but missed on tiebreak.

Kevin Bonham
28-03-2016, 04:27 PM
Melkumyan-Bjelbork has been going on for 85 moves..and may be more to come :)

Alas Igor took with the wrong pawn on move 108; taking the other way seems to lead to a draw.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 dxc4 5.a4 Na6 6.e3 Be6 7.Ng5 Qd7 8.Nxe6 Qxe6 9.Be2 Nb4 10.a5 Nd3+ 11.Bxd3 cxd3 12.Qxd3 Qd7 13.0-0 e6 14.e4 Be7 15.Rd1 0-0 16.f3 Rad8 17.Be3 Qc7 18.Qc4 Rd7 19.Rdc1 Rc8 20.Ne2 h6 21.b4 a6 22.Rd1 Qb8 23.Nf4 Bd6 24.g3 Rcd8 25.Kg2 Ne8 26.Nd3 Nc7 27.Rd2 Nb5 28.Rad1 Na3 29.Qb3 Nb5 30.Qb2 Kh7 31.Nc5 Bxc5 32.bxc5 Re8 33.Qb4 Kg8 34.Rd3 Qd8 35.Qd2 Qe7 36.h4 Red8 37.Qc2 Qf6 38.Qf2 Qg6 39.Bf4 f6 40.Qe3 h5 41.Kh2 Kh7 42.R3d2 Kh8 43.e5 f5 44.Bg5 Rf8 45.Rb2 Rff7 46.Rd3 Rd5 47.Rbd2 Kg8 48.Qg1 Kh7 49.Qb1 Kh8 50.Qb2 Kh7 51.Rd1 Kh8 52.Qf2 Kh7 53.Bc1 Kh8 54.Qe3 Kh7 55.Qf4 Kh8 56.Kg2 Kg8 57.Kf2 Kf8 58.Be3 Kg8 59.Ke1 Kf8 60.Ke2 Kg8 61.Rg1 Kh7 62.Rh1 Kg8 63.Qg5 Kh7 64.Qf4 Kg8 65.Rd2 Rfd7 66.Rc1 Kh7 67.Rc4 Rf7 68.Rd1 Rfd7 69.Rd3 Rf7 70.Kd2 Kg8 71.Rc1 Kh7 72.Rg1 Kg8 73.Kc2 Kh7 74.Kb2 Rfd7 75.Rd2 Rf7 76.Kb3 Kh8 77.Rd3 Kh7 78.Kc4 Kh8 79.Qg5 Kh7 80.Bc1 Rfd7 81.Qxg6+ Kxg6 82.Bb2 Rf7 83.Rd2 Kh7 84.Kd3 Rd8 85.Ke2 Nc7 86.Rd3 Nd5 87.Rb3 Rdd7 88.Kf2 Rf8 89.Bc1 Rff7 90.Bg5 Rc7 91.Rgb1 Rcd7 92.Kg2 Rc7 93.Kh3 Rcd7 94.R1b2 Rc7 95.Kg2 Rcd7 96.Kf2 Rc7 97.Bd8 Rcd7 98.Bg5 Rc7 99.Kg2 Rcd7 100.Kh3 Rc7 101.g4 fxg4+ 102.fxg4 hxg4+ 103.Kxg4 Rcd7 104.Rf3 Rxf3 105.Kxf3 Rf7+ 106.Kg4 Nc3 107.Rc2 Nb5 108.d5 exd5 109.e6 Rf1 110.e7 Nc7 111.Rb2 Ne8 112.Rxb7 Kg8 113.Rb6 Ra1 114.Rxa6 Kf7 115.Rxc6 Rxa5 116.Kf5 Nf6 117.Bxf6 gxf6 118.Re6 Ke8 119.Kxf6 Ra4 120.Rd6 Rf4+ 121.Ke6 Re4+ 122.Kxd5 Rxh4 123.Re6 Rh1 124.Kc6 Rb1 125.Kc7 Rb2 126.c6 Rb1 127.Re5 Rb2 128.Kd6 Rd2+ 129.Rd5 Rxd5+ 130.Kxd5 Kxe7 1-0

(game viewer shows 131.Ke4 which obviously wasn't played.)

Andy009
28-03-2016, 06:57 PM
Victorian Players rock! :owned::owned:

James Morris the Premier Champion!

David Cannon winning the Major title for second time! Not bad for a Junior player!!

Bobby Cheng winning the Blitz.


Also Congrats to evergreen Mark Stokes(Queensland) for winning the Minor title.


:clap::clap:

Kevin Bonham
28-03-2016, 07:59 PM
Also Congrats to evergreen Mark Stokes(Queensland) for winning the Minor title.

He strikes again! Well done Mark.

smellysocks7
28-03-2016, 08:40 PM
Congratulations James!!! All Hail Caesar! Very well deserved win.

MichaelBaron
28-03-2016, 08:57 PM
So now 7 people to pic the Australian team for Baku from and some painful selections to be made :)

ER
28-03-2016, 09:20 PM
So now 7 people to pic the Australian team for Baku from and some painful selections to be made :)
Don't forget the ladies' team Michael! I must admit no much pain expected in their selection process though!

MichaelBaron
28-03-2016, 11:49 PM
Don't forget the ladies' team Michael! I must admit no much pain expected in their selection process though!

Unfortunately selecting the ladies team...won't be that painful...

Adamski
29-03-2016, 11:42 AM
Worth mentioning that Barak's 5 against some classy opposition was a good result.

Charles
29-03-2016, 12:08 PM
Hi all,

A huge thanks from the Doeberl team for a great weekend. Well done to James Morris, great to have a local winner again after so many years.

We also started a new tradition this year with the Doeberl Easter Egg hunt for the younger players and Elliott has donated this years entry fee to support parents who are happy to run this over the next three years.

Vlad
29-03-2016, 04:36 PM
Great tournament as usual! Thanks a lot to organizers!

Capablanca-Fan
30-03-2016, 12:53 AM
Brilliant win by James for sure, against a very strong field. :clap::clap:

Banana
30-03-2016, 10:13 AM
Hey, HAIL CAESAR!

I heard u won this thing! Cool hey. Always knew you'd be back to your best!

Of course, I'm only assuming you won this, based on Alan Goldsmith's report to me last night. If there was a crosstable, I could corroborate that.

Can anyone post a crosstable please? Thanks!

ER
30-03-2016, 10:50 AM
Can anyone post a crosstable please? Thanks!
there you go!
http://chess-results.com/tnr212065.aspx?lan=1&art=4&wi=821

SHump
30-03-2016, 11:01 AM
I was just wondering if Kanan Izzat was OK - looks like he did not play the last 3 rounds? Can anyone shed some light on that?

Banana
30-03-2016, 11:05 AM
Thanks Elliott!

Charles
30-03-2016, 01:16 PM
Hi Scott,

Kanan is fine. He just decided he didn't want to play anymore. We will apply our usual withdrawal policy if he wishes to play the Doeberl again.

Hughston
30-03-2016, 01:32 PM
Was the blitz tournament acf-quick or fide-blitz rated?

Thebes
30-03-2016, 01:52 PM
Was the blitz tournament acf-quick or fide-blitz rated?

It was neither

Hughston
30-03-2016, 01:55 PM
It was neither

Oh really? Meh ok

Thebes
31-03-2016, 08:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JaCi_aPhus

Becky
01-04-2016, 08:17 AM
Thanks to the organizers for another successful and smooth tournament. Haha! The blitz tournament was wild and fun!!

Mischa
05-04-2016, 09:16 PM
A demon faced and defeated...sooo proud son

Michael_D'Arcy
06-04-2016, 01:01 AM
Thanks to Charles, Shaun, and the organising committee - it is always a pleasure to make the trip.

Huge congratulations to James Morris for a superb performance and a well deserved victory. I know a lot of people were really pleased to see this success.

Mark's problem now will be if his stirring triumph in the Minor pushes his ACF above the upper limit!

Agent Smith
08-04-2016, 06:08 PM
PGN is up. Cheers.
http://www.doeberlcup.com.au/DBL2016_results/PGN/doeberl16.pgn

Kevin Bonham
08-04-2016, 08:46 PM
I was going to post the Dowden vs Ikeda game but found that while the first seven rounds have all boards, the last two rounds have just boards 1-8.

Tony Dowden
08-04-2016, 11:04 PM
I was going to post the Dowden vs Ikeda game but found that while the first seven rounds have all boards, the last two rounds have just boards 1-8.

Capablanca Fan asked for it a couple of times too but I only know how to type it in the slow way and I haven't prioritised the time yet, sorry. I'm playing in the April Open at Rothwell over the weekend so I might get around to it on Sunday evening.

Capablanca-Fan
12-04-2016, 01:56 PM
Capablanca Fan asked for it a couple of times too but I only know how to type it in the slow way and I haven't prioritised the time yet, sorry. I'm playing in the April Open at Rothwell over the weekend so I might get around to it on Sunday evening.

Hey Tony, you might be able to enter it on this analysis board (https://www.chess.com/analysis-board-editor), and the Game Editor tab has a copy PGN button. Didn't mean to cause any bother. KB might have some better ideas for free game editors.

Tony Dowden
12-04-2016, 08:17 PM
Here's the critical part of Dowden-Ikeda, picking things up on White's 18th move:

1. f5 Ba6? 2. f6! Nxf6 3. Bxc5 Qb7 4. Bxf8 Rxf8 5. Rfe1 Rc8 6. Ne3 h5 7. Nd5 Nh7 8. Qb6 Bf8 9. Kh2 Qxb6 10. Nxb6 Rc7 11. Rd7 and White converted the ending without too much difficulty. I'm not sure what Junta missed but maybe it was that 4...Bxf1 loses (at least) a piece.

In the next and final round I decided to try and beat another IM :) Here's Dale-Dowden after 12...g5!?

1. Ne1 Qf6!? 2. Qxh5 Qg7 3. Qe2 Nhf6 4. g4 Be7 5. Nc2 Nxg4!? 6. Qxg4 Nf6 7. Qg2 Bh3 8. Qg3 g4 9. Ne3 Nh5 10. Nf5 Qh7 11. Qe3 Nf4 assuming White would repeat because of my pressure on the h-file but ... 12. Qxf4?!!?
Unfortunately I was mentally exhausted and very short of time. A few moves later when I was in check I absent-mindedly touched my queen and had to resign - and Ari's crazy roll of the dice had paid off! In last year's Doeberl we had played out the most boring draw imaginable (all my fault), so this game was a nice change.

Tony Dowden
12-04-2016, 09:09 PM
Hey Tony, you might be able to enter it on this analysis board (https://www.chess.com/analysis-board-editor), and the Game Editor tab has a copy PGN button. ... Thanks for the tip!

Capablanca-Fan
30-05-2019, 01:25 AM
You're welcome. Now I recommend entering it on the Tarrasch GUI (https://www.triplehappy.com/), a free database program with chess engines, written by Kiwi CM Bill Forster. About the only thing that Patrick Byrom and I agree upon is that it's a very helpful program (http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?16820-Bill-Forster-s-Tarrasch-Chess-GUI).

antichrist
30-05-2019, 10:37 PM
Firstly, re the MCC and CCC, are you sure that you are not confusing correlation with causation? Organiser largesse towards lesser titles generally happens when organisers are better funded, which can be a consequence (not necessarily a cause, as you say) of better long term participation rates. Or alternatively, it may be that better participation may have been caused by some unrelated factor (like a booming economy).

Secondly, both the contiguous states of the USA and Europe have vastly higher chess player density than Australia, which means that whilst tournament organisers there compete with each other, tournament organisers here often have monopoly-like control over chess tournaments in a given region for a given weekend (try organising a tournament in Sydney over Easter if you disagree); so the comparison between them and us is a non-sequitur.

It is quite possible to organise a chess tourney in Sydney over Easter - there is no monopoly. Indeed it was done for many years sometimes with excellent attendance when located in inner city.

antichrist
30-05-2019, 10:44 PM
You're welcome. Now I recommend entering it on the Tarrasch GUI (https://www.triplehappy.com/), a free database program with chess engines, written by Kiwi CM Bill Forster. About the only thing that Patrick Byrom and I agree upon is that it's a very helpful program (http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?16820-Bill-Forster-s-Tarrasch-Chess-GUI).

You tripped me up here Capa Fan, I jumped in thinking it was the Doeberl 2019.

As well I thought that Elliott had suddenly being taken ill again.

ER
03-08-2019, 03:47 PM
As well I thought that Elliott had suddenly being taken ill again.

nah no time for such luxuries, just a prolonged overseas business trip, back mid September or something!