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Rincewind
28-09-2004, 10:59 AM
A poll to see if we can recommend a new catchcry for the ACF. Various ideas have been expressed throughout this forum and I've formed these into new catchcries that encapsulate the essense of chess in Asutralia. For those who can't decide a short voter demographic is also supplied...

(1) Interested only in supporting the status quo. Obviously boring and probably members of the petite bourgeoisie.

(2) Thinly veiled counterintellectual snob. First ones against the wall when the revolution comes.

(3) 19th century, sexist and bi-curious males living in the past.

(4) Die-hards of those believing chess should be included in the Summer Olympics with equal air time of women's beach volleyball. It ain't gonna happen because of too many #3 voters in the viewing public.

(5) Members of the Matthew Elliot fan club expected to vote here.

(6) Only really expecting one vote here. No prizes for guessing.

(7) No further explanation needed. See #6

Kevin Bonham
29-09-2004, 01:22 AM
Meta-debate/flamewar has been split.

I notice (though I don't think anyone else has) that the Australian Deadocrats have quit their tired old line about "keeping the bastards honest" and recently rebadged themselves as "The Lie Detectors", complete with wannabe-hard-hitting Matrix-style graphics.

Can we do something like that too? A harder more modern image? Maybe Tarantino-style? From Dusk Til Pawn?

*runs away*

Garvinator
29-09-2004, 01:30 AM
from some of the posts on this bb, i am sure some would want the name to be- kill bill ;) :whistle:

Lucena
29-09-2004, 12:16 PM
I suggest: "I am the walrus".

ursogr8
29-09-2004, 01:12 PM
A poll to see if we can recommend a new catchcry for the ACF. Various ideas have been expressed throughout this forum and I've formed these into new catchcries that encapsulate the essense of chess in Asutralia. For those who can't decide a short voter demographic is also supplied...

(1) Interested only in supporting the status quo. Obviously boring and probably members of the petite bourgeoisie.

(2) Thinly veiled counterintellectual snob. First ones against the wall when the revolution comes.

(3) 19th century, sexist and bi-curious males living in the past.

(4) Die-hards of those believing chess should be included in the Summer Olympics with equal air time of women's beach volleyball. It ain't gonna happen because of too many #3 voters in the viewing public.

(5) Members of the Matthew Elliot fan club expected to vote here.

(6) Only really expecting one vote here. No prizes for guessing.

(7) No further explanation needed. See #6

Barry
I have been trying to vote for #5 by pressing
here => http://www.boxhillchess.org.au/
as the instruction in your post said.
Nothing much happens. Can you try.

starter

Rincewind
29-09-2004, 02:15 PM
I have been trying to vote for #5 by pressing
here => http://www.boxhillchess.org.au/
as the instruction in your post said.
Nothing much happens. Can you try.

I suggest you move to Florida.

ursogr8
29-09-2004, 02:20 PM
I suggest you move to Florida.

Should I fly direct, or a stopover at Chad?

Spiny Norman
29-09-2004, 09:18 PM
Re: the poll question(s).

Whatever happened to "none of the above"?

New question: Does Australian Chess (as a movement, or an organisation, or whatever) have a vision, a mission, a published strategy, a marketing plan, etc?

If so, is there a version available for public consumption?

If not ... why not???

If Aussie chess isn't grabbing the public imagination in the way we want it to, then a "catchy slogan" just ain't going to cut it.

We need to change the inputs to change the outputs (any sensible IT person will tell you that!).

Look, I love chess ... but it seems to be presenting itself in basically the same ways that it has for years (my perception, based on limited recent experience).

There are success stories around. Good clubs, healthy, growing, having an impact on their local communities.

Q. Are there case studies of what did (and, more importantly, what didn't) work?

</rant=off>

"starter" has been really helpful from my perspective. I went and met with him a few weeks ago because I had an interest in starting a new club and promoting chess in my local community. He was able to provide me with documentation ... really useful information ... on what has clearly been working really well @ Box Hill in VIC.

If other people have access to similar information I'd really love to hear about it ... its valuable ... its blood, sweat and tears, its "learning the hard way" to find out what works and what doesn't (in metro-Melb at least).

Regards to all,

Steve

P.S. I really DO appreciate everyone's contributions here, for better or worse, because at least everyone clearly CARES about chess and seeing it become more successful. I don't mind disagreements about HOW ... that's healthy ... provided we all give credit where credit is due when someone achieves something ... so thanks to all of you who have been gracious enough to answer questions from a newbie.

Spiny Norman
29-09-2004, 09:34 PM
Here's another thing:

<raving type=looney mode=on>

"The clever sport" :doh:

What is that? Please, PLEASE, don't tell me that this is how we position ourselves in the market. It sounds almost frighteningly (is that a word?) plausible...

New "customer" thinks: "Hmmm. clever sport. they're more clever than me. bastards!"

How about thinking about chess from the point of view of how it HELPS OTHER PEOPLE improve their life???

People are stuck with their IQ (more or less). Don't remind them of it!!! They won't get "more clever" playing chess. They'll just get sick of being beaten by people more clever than they are.

Gotta get the focus off the "i'm more clever than you" crap and find a way of helping people feel better about themselves and their life!

<finishes 2nd glass of extraordinarily good chardonnay!>

nightey night everyone....
goodnight john boy
goodnight mary-ellen

<raving type=looney mode=off>

Frosty

Trent Parker
29-09-2004, 11:54 PM
Interesting frosty......
The only marketing that is done, as far as i can see is marketing only within the chess community. Or i know that Peter par advertises NSWCA chess tournaments in his column in Mondays SMH. (mind you it is buried in with the bridge column in amongst the classifieds).

I think that chess needs to be marketed perhaps through individual clubs catchment area. Perhaps inserting advertisements of the local clubs in local newspapers perhaps?? and maybe not in amongst other ads as in classifieds.

Or perhaps advertisements of tournaments on radio? If i remember correctly 2day FM in sydney has a "Community noticeboard" or "community switchboard" or whatever it is called, that lets people know what is on on the weekend. But most people are chess illiterate so perhaps this may create awareness of chess but perhaps not the avenue to grow chess at this point of time????

Rincewind
29-09-2004, 11:59 PM
Re: the poll question(s).

Frosty Steve. My poll was intended to be purely facescious. If you want to genuinely come up with a enw slogan I suggest you start a new thread in the Aust Chess section. I put this in the non-Chess forum for a reason.

;)

Spiny Norman
30-09-2004, 06:40 AM
Interesting frosty......
The only marketing that is done, as far as i can see is marketing only within the chess community. Or i know that Peter par advertises NSWCA chess tournaments in his column in Mondays SMH. (mind you it is buried in with the bridge column in amongst the classifieds).

I think that chess needs to be marketed perhaps through individual clubs catchment area. Perhaps inserting advertisements of the local clubs in local newspapers perhaps?? and maybe not in amongst other ads as in classifieds.

Or perhaps advertisements of tournaments on radio? If i remember correctly 2day FM in sydney has a "Community noticeboard" or "community switchboard" or whatever it is called, that lets people know what is on on the weekend. But most people are chess illiterate so perhaps this may create awareness of chess but perhaps not the avenue to grow chess at this point of time????

All good thoughts ... but last night's rant by me was trying to get people to think about the fact that all of this stuff needs to be within the context of a properly thought through strategic plan.

Other sports do it. Why shouldn't we? We've got some of the brightest minds in the country that could work on it.

But we would need to get some help (always a humbling experience) from a couple of expert sources so that we focus everything we do around the customer's need and also ensure that everything we present to the market/community is part of a consistent presentation of our message.

***************** This quote is pure GOLD:

"Its not what we DO that's important, its what we BE ...

We are human BEINGS, not human doings."

*****************

Now that is why you always start right at the beginning, with the vision of what the Australian Chess community is (or will be when our plans are executed successfully) before you being to think about how to actually achieve it.

People have spoken in various threads about getting sponsorships. That's hard yakka. I know this because in the business scene I've done the hard yards in trying to raise capital to fund business expansion. The only way you get anywhere with that process is to have a clearly articulated, written (!) plan that uses non-technical (i.e. non-chess) language to tell people what and why you are going that direction ... and then a 10-second elevator pitch that grabs potential investor's interest.

At the end of the day, the "customer" isn't buying chess. We don't sell chess. Therefore we shouldn't market chess?

People participate in chess clubs and tournaments etc. for a whole host of reasons that often have nothing to do with moving bits or wood or plastic around a checkerboard.

I know that people here know this ... but do we REALLY know it? Do we focus our efforts on it? Some do I'm sure. Better communicating to the community how we help them meet those (perhaps) unstated needs of theirs is what will improve attendances and membership numbers.

I might sound like a mad marketer at this point, but I believe there really is something in this. I have run both successful and non-successful software/consulting businesses for the past 9 years and I have learned the hard way that to succeed you must start and finish with the customer's need (their true need).

Q. Why are bowls clubs seemingly so successful? Hundred's of thousands of members around the country! (more than 300,000 I am reliably informed). What do they have that we either don't have or cannot offer?

Frosty

Spiny Norman
30-09-2004, 06:50 AM
Frosty Steve. My poll was intended to be purely facescious. If you want to genuinely come up with a enw slogan I suggest you start a new thread in the Aust Chess section. I put this in the non-Chess forum for a reason.

;)

Hi Barry,

Yeah, I know ... :hmm: ... for some reason (even though I'd read the thread a couple of times before, it just "set me off" last night.

Maybe because I'm dealing at work right now with a whole bunch of unstructured people who are trying to rapidly expand their business but don't see the value of planning (oh, they SAY they do, but when it comes to the crunch ... well ... "lets just get on with it" is the catch-cry).

I don't think I'd dare to post it in a "serious thread".

Doubtless there are plenty of smarter, more experienced people than me that have already looked at these kinds of issues.

Cheers,

Frosty.

Spiny Norman
30-09-2004, 07:01 AM
People have spoken in various threads about getting sponsorships. That's hard yakka. I know this because in the business scene I've done the hard yards in trying to raise capital to fund business expansion. The only way you get anywhere with that process is to have a clearly articulated, written (!) plan that uses non-technical (i.e. non-chess) language to tell people what and why you are going that direction ... and then a 10-second elevator pitch that grabs potential investor's interest.

... having said that ... its not that hard!

In my last business we were successful in raising around A$3M for a software business (that business unfortunately subsequently failed after 3 years, but that's another story). We also had offers to invest capital from USA-based VCs in the amount of US$5M.

1. Demonstrate that you know who your customer is (market segmentation) and what their needs are
2. Prepare a good market story that simply communicates what return you are going to generate for the "investor"
3. Make sure you have an easily understood Sustainable Competitive Advantage (SCA).
4. Demonstrate a management team that has the skills and experience needed to execute the plan
5. Knock on a lot of doors ... but use your networks of contacts to get to the people you need to see

Questions I always ask at the beginning of any venture, whether small or large (learned from one of my business mentors):

1. Who is my customer?
2. What do they want?
3. How much are they prepared to pay?
4. How am I going to deliver my solution to them?
5. What does my product/solution look like?

Notice that the product/solution comes LAST. Its the least important part of the equation ... the customer and their need always comes first.

Enough looney raving from me. I'm off to work...

Frosty

antichrist
05-10-2004, 03:47 PM
Maybe the words of Jolly Swagman could be re-written to a chess theme. It could be made a lot longer.

"...and the black King says 'You'll never take me alive Whitey'" blah blah

arosar
05-10-2004, 03:59 PM
Hey Frosty! You talk like an MBA type mate. Are you?

AR

Spiny Norman
05-10-2004, 07:25 PM
Hey Frosty! You talk like an MBA type mate. Are you?

Ah, if only you knew how funny that suggestion is to me! <chuckles quietly> :lol:

No, I'm not even University educated. I do have a Cert IV in Business (got that last year).

One of my mates is MBA tho' (he's a former business partner of mine). Maybe I've been hanging around with him too long. :rolleyes:

Those few things that I have managed to learn, I learned the hard way (perhaps even the hardest way). I've had both successful and unsuccessful IT/software businesses...

Cheers,

Frosty

Rincewind
06-10-2004, 12:19 AM
Ah, if only you knew how funny that suggestion is to me! <chuckles quietly> :lol:

Good to hear. IMHO there are too many MsBA running around these days. As if the problems of the world could all be solved by management!

ursogr8
06-10-2004, 07:43 AM
Good to hear. IMHO there are too many MsBA running around these days. As if the problems of the world could all be solved by management!

And our answer will be that, even as they are, our guardians may very likely be the happiest of men; but that our aim in founding the State was not the disproportionate happiness of any one class, but the greatest happiness of the whole; we thought that in a State which is ordered with a view to the good of the whole we should be most likely to find Justice, and in the ill-ordered State injustice: and, having found them, we might then decide which of the two is the happier. And our answer will be that, even as they are, our guardians may very likely be the happiest of men; but that our aim in founding the State was not the disproportionate happiness of any one class, but the greatest happiness of the whole; we thought that in a State which is ordered with a view to the good of the whole we should be most likely to find Justice, and in the ill-ordered State injustice: and, having found them, we might then decide which of the two is the happier.

Rhubarb
06-10-2004, 09:12 AM
And our answer will be that, even as they are, our guardians may very likely be the happiest of men; but that our aim in founding the State was not the disproportionate happiness of any one class, but the greatest happiness of the whole; we thought that in a State which is ordered with a view to the good of the whole we should be most likely to find Justice, and in the ill-ordered State injustice: and, having found them, we might then decide which of the two is the happier. And our answer will be that, even as they are, our guardians may very likely be the happiest of men; but that our aim in founding the State was not the disproportionate happiness of any one class, but the greatest happiness of the whole; we thought that in a State which is ordered with a view to the good of the whole we should be most likely to find Justice, and in the ill-ordered State injustice: and, having found them, we might then decide which of the two is the happier.

Such a stirring speech! Its effect must've been almost but not quite as effective the second time around.

P.S. And the several classes will receive the proportion of happiness which nature assigns to them.

Rincewind
06-10-2004, 09:17 AM
And our answer will be that, even as they are, our guardians may very likely be the happiest of men; but that our aim in founding the State was not the disproportionate happiness of any one class, but the greatest happiness of the whole; we thought that in a State which is ordered with a view to the good of the whole we should be most likely to find Justice, and in the ill-ordered State injustice: and, having found them, we might then decide which of the two is the happier. And our answer will be that, even as they are, our guardians may very likely be the happiest of men; but that our aim in founding the State was not the disproportionate happiness of any one class, but the greatest happiness of the whole; we thought that in a State which is ordered with a view to the good of the whole we should be most likely to find Justice, and in the ill-ordered State injustice: and, having found them, we might then decide which of the two is the happier.

I'm not saying we don't need managers. Just that we have around 10 times more than we currently need and they are doing jobs for which they are not suited. However, they are generally adept at displaying that they are in fact doing a good job, even when they are not. ;)

ursogr8
06-10-2004, 09:28 AM
I'm not saying we don't need managers. Just that we have around 10 times more than we currently need and they are doing jobs for which they are not suited. However, they are generally adept at displaying that they are in fact doing a good job, even when they are not. ;)

Baz

I was going to post that your extraordinary claim, of the 10 factor, required extraordinary proof. But then I realised I was in the good 10% and so I became quite parochial and decided not to stir you.

Have a non-controversial day
starter

Rhubarb
06-10-2004, 09:33 AM
I'm not saying we don't need managers. Just that we have around 10 times more than we currently need and they are doing jobs for which they are not suited. However, they are generally adept at displaying that they are in fact doing a good job, even when they are not. ;)

Why stop at useless managers? Let's try lawyers, politicians, advertising executives. We have 10 times as many of these idiots as we need as well.

And as technology increasingly bleaches the blue collars white, we can look forward to more of them.

arosar
06-10-2004, 10:08 AM
Do we need more managers or more MBAs?

AR

ursogr8
06-10-2004, 12:28 PM
Do we need more managers or more MBAs?

AR

Amiel

Current IT trend I am managing is for 'global sourcing'. This means Australian programming and testing jobs move to India and China because of the cost advantage reasons. What is left behind is contract-and-delivery management. So, to answer your question...we need more managers. (And sadly, zero programmers and testers). No MBAs required.

starter

arosar
06-10-2004, 12:39 PM
You got something against outsourcing to those sub-continentals?

AR

ursogr8
06-10-2004, 12:52 PM
You got something against outsourcing to those sub-continentals?

AR

Amiel
It is sad to see good jobs move off-shore.
Out 15 people I had on one project, all the coding and testing jobs have moved. This leaves only contract management and business analysis here. This is done by 4.

I have nothing against those on the sub-continent (India, China, Korea) where the jobs end-up; but it is unAustralian to send such intellectual work o/s to anywhere.
It is essentially all the 'junior' jobs that get moved.

starter

Garvinator
06-10-2004, 01:05 PM
Amiel
It is sad to see good jobs move off-shore.
Out 15 people I had on one project, all the coding and testing jobs have moved. This leaves only contract management and business analysis here. This is done by 4.

I have nothing against those on the sub-continent (India, China, Korea) where the jobs end-up; but it is unAustralian to send such intellectual work o/s to anywhere.
It is essentially all the 'junior' jobs that get moved.

starter
and what this leads to is less jobs available in IT areas for australian people.

arosar
06-10-2004, 01:13 PM
We are moving lower level jobs. High end jobs remain here. In other words, we are discarding those lines of work over which we do not possess a competitive advantage. In time, those who lost jobs (temporarily) will be redeployed.

AR

JGB
06-10-2004, 06:30 PM
Your making it all sound pretty bad back in Aus for the IT industry. :(

Were hoping to find work for my fiance' in this field when we are back in Australia. It is becoming a difficult decision to make when she has work here in Germany For T Sytems Nova in the SAP field when it sounds bleak in down under.

Perhaps the best chance is to try and set up work from here before we get back?

Any ideas?

arosar
06-10-2004, 06:49 PM
You should really check out the online job sites to see if that skill-set is in demand. If it's not, well then, what can we say mate? And yes, it's a good idea to set up work now from your end.

Look man, this is my advice to you OK. You should follow who ever is making good money. So, if you're making more dough than she will by coming here, then come. If she makes more money than you by staying in Germany - then stay there. But, of course, all this is assuming money's the main decider. A friend of mine who lives in Cologne loves Australia. He comes every summer. He wants to come for the lifestyle and society but he is so young and all that and can make more money there in the mean time you see. So he stays in Germany. You get my meaning?

Still, you might be coming over not for money. Since I been here mate I think it's the best country in the world. And I know you will come to Sydney. Best city in the world mate. I'm not bullschiting.

AR

JGB
06-10-2004, 06:56 PM
You should really check out the online job sites to see if that skill-set is in demand. If it's not, well then, what can we say mate? And yes, it's a good idea to set up work now from your end.

Look man, this is my advice to you OK. You should follow who ever is making good money. So, if you're making more dough than she will by coming here, then come. If she makes more money than you by staying in Germany - then stay there. But, of course, all this is assuming money's the main decider. A friend of mine who lives in Cologne loves Australia. He comes every summer. He wants to come for the lifestyle and society but he is so young and all that and can make more money there in the mean time you see. So he stays in Germany. You get my meaning?

Still, you might be coming over not for money. Since I been here mate I think it's the best country in the world. And I know you will come to Sydney. Best city in the world mate. I'm not bullschiting.

AR

Sorry mate, thats were we disagree. Money aint everything and if it was we would be staying here without a doubt. Their is no way we together would earn as much in Australia as we do here, that is almost impossible for a young graduate like my fiancee' to earn.
Its the quality of life Australia offers us, and its 'my land' that I (we actually) miss so much. I have been away too long and am Australian and always will be.

As for the city I am a Melbourne boy, but that does not mean I will living there later. Australia is the best county to live, and I have lived in a few. ;)

Rincewind
06-10-2004, 08:05 PM
I was going to post that your extraordinary claim, of the 10 factor, required extraordinary proof. But then I realised I was in the good 10% and so I became quite parochial and decided not to stir you.

If you have manager in your title, or better still project manager, then you are forgiven. It's these managers who pretend at being politicians who are the biggest offenders. They forget that minister and senator is not the same thing as manager. And leading a country does not equate to managing the economy of said country.

ursogr8
06-10-2004, 08:10 PM
If you have manager in your title, or better still project manager, then you are forgiven. It's these managers who pretend at being politicians who are the biggest offenders. They forget that minister and senator is not the same thing as manager. And leading a country does not equate to managing the economy of said country.

Ahhh, the imprimatur of the mod Baz.
Almost as cherished as my xxxxxxx title. ;)

starter

Rincewind
06-10-2004, 08:23 PM
Ahhh, the imprimatur of the mod Baz.
Almost as cherished as my xxxxxxx title. ;)

Don't tell me you're a politician. :eek:

ursogr8
06-10-2004, 08:28 PM
^^^^
Baz
I was going to type National Project Manager, but would fall foul of Jeo.
Hence the XXXXXXXXXX.
starter

Rincewind
06-10-2004, 08:31 PM
I was going to type National Project Manager, but would fall foul of Jeo.
Hence the XXXXXXXXXX.

Ah, you need to quote more selectively. It saves bandwidth and confusion. Although regarding saving bandwidth, you might need to declare a conflict of interests. ;)

four four two
13-04-2006, 12:10 PM
This looks appropiate to bump considering everything that has happened in the last week or so...:whistle:

Lucena
13-04-2006, 01:11 PM
This looks appropiate to bump considering everything that has happened in the last week or so...:whistle:

Well, 442? Do you have a suggestion for the ACF's new catchcry?

four four two
13-04-2006, 01:16 PM
"Dont ask questions,shut up and play fool!"....:whistle:

Alan Shore
13-04-2006, 01:17 PM
http://www.geocities.com/arforfaborb/thecoop/Images/NiceBanhammer.jpg

four four two
13-04-2006, 01:22 PM
Very good...and pretty quick...or have you been searching for such an image since I resurrected this thread?:hmm:

Alan Shore
13-04-2006, 01:26 PM
Very good...and pretty quick...or have you been searching for such an image since I resurrected this thread?:hmm:

I only saw it minutes ago, reminded me of all the bannings on my other forum, seemed pertinent. :D

four four two
13-04-2006, 01:30 PM
Should the ACF's theme song then be Peter Gabriel's "Sledgehammer"?

Or the Stones..."One hit to the body"?:hmm: ;)

bergil
13-04-2006, 01:33 PM
ACF - Check us out! :hmm:

ACF - You'll be mated for life! :eek:

PHAT
13-04-2006, 03:46 PM
ACF = Absolutely Completely F..........

You fill it in. Their are plenty of possibilities, but "fanstastic" is not one of them.

ER
07-05-2011, 08:12 PM
ACF = Absolutely Completely F..........

You fill it in. Their are plenty of possibilities, but "fanstastic" is not one of them.

Fabulous??? :P