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Publicist
16-06-2011, 05:50 PM
The Championships will be held in 2 sections
Tournament 1 Under 12, Under 10, Under 8, Boys and Girls. 7 rounds
Playing schedule: Saturday July 2, Round 1 10.00 Round 2 12.15 Round 3 14.30
Sunday July 3, Round 4 10.00 Round 5 12.15 Round 6 14.30 Round 7 16.45
Rate of Play: 40 minutes plus 30 seconds from move one***
Ratings All games will be rated on the ACF ratings list.
Entry fee: $50 if paid by Sunday June 20. $60 after that time
Prize List Under 12 Under10 Under 8
Open championships Under 12 1st, 1st, $50 plus trophy, 2nd, $30
Girls Under 12 1st, $50 plus trophy
Open championships Under 10 1st, $50 plus trophy, 2nd, $30
Girls Under 10 1st, $50 plus trophy
Open championships Under 8 1st, $50 plus trophy, 2nd, $30
Girls Under 8 1st, $50 plus trophy
Further information: Gerrit Hartland, Canterbury Junior Chess Organizer
Telephone (03) 9878 3163 E-mail gerrit.hartland@bigpond.com*
A female player is eligible to hold one Girls title and one open title in the same or in different age groups.
Tournament 2 Under 18, Under 16, Under 14, Boys and Girls. 9 rounds
Playing schedule: Tuesday July12, Round 1: 13.00, Round 2: 16.00;
Wednesday July 13. Round 3: 10.00, Round 4: 13.00, Round 5: 16.00
Thursday July 14. Round 6: 10.00 Round 7: 13.00
Friday July 15, Round 8: 10.00 Round 9: 13.00
Rate of Play: 75 minutes plus 30 seconds from move one
Entry fee: $60 if paid by Sunday June 27. $70 after that date
Ratings: All games will be rated on the ACF ratings list.
Prize List Under 18 Under 16 Under 14
Open championships Under 18 1st, $400 plus trophy, 2nd, $150 3rd, $100
Girls Under 18 1st, $100 plus trophy
Open championships Under 16 1st, $300 plus trophy, 2nd, $100
Girls Under 16 1st, $80 plus trophy
Open championships Under 14 1st, $200 plus trophy, 2nd, $50
Girls Under 14 1st, $80 plus trophy
Further information: Gerrit Hartland, Canterbury Junior Chess Organizer
Telephone (03) 9878 3163 E-mail gerrit.hartland@bigpond.com*
A female player is eligible to hold one Girls title and one open title in the same or in different age groups.

Carl Gorka
16-06-2011, 08:42 PM
OMG, that isn't the most user friendly presentation I've seen on this forum:eek:

Publicist
17-06-2011, 12:10 AM
This was a rescue operation after having been hacked

Publicist
17-06-2011, 12:35 AM
For a better version with entry form follow this link:
http://www.chessvictoria.org.au/new_page_3.htm

Publicist
17-06-2011, 12:39 PM
Under 12 Entries as at 16.06.2011
1. Fan, Enoch 1606
2. Puccini, Jack 1412
3. Lim, Ethan 1380
4. Cannon, David 1343
5. Dale, Finley 1257
6. Lim, Denise 1162 female
7. Yuan, Daniel 1129
8. Chew, Jason 998
9. Chin, David 774
10. Loucas, Carl 688
11. Bhat, Vishal 676
12. Chan, Kris 633
13. Chan, Luis 592
14. Guo, Zhi Lin 532 female
15. Guo, Zhi Xin 478
16. Middleton, Jody 478 female
17. Yuan, Bill 457
18. You, Jennifer 433 female
19. Fan, Phoebe 328 female
20. Lin, Emily 315 female
21. Weeraratne, Ken 232
22. Patnaikuni, Ryan 220
23. You, Jessica 220 female
24. Ding, Adison
25. Fu, Chris
26. Gu Yang, Mingus
27. Gu Yang, Bonita female
28. Li, William
29. Patnaikuni, Jay
30. Thian, Eric
31. Vivekananda, Nischal
32. Wang, William
33. Weeraratne, Lucy female
34. Xu, Eddie

Carl Gorka
17-06-2011, 07:53 PM
For a better version with entry form follow this link:
http://www.chessvictoria.org.au/new_page_3.htm

Thanks :clap:

Grant Szuveges
17-06-2011, 09:13 PM
Note that the Under 14/16/18 event starts on the Tuesday 12th.

The Johns-Putra JETS program runs from the 4th to Saturday the 9th.

Therefore kids have the opportunity to participate in the MCC July Blitz Marathon on Sunday 10th and still have a rest day on Monday 11th before the Vic Junior starts.

Use the blitz to practice some new openings you want to unleash in the Vic Junior and compete against FM Bobby Cheng!

See the MCC July Blitz Marathon thread for details.

Publicist
20-06-2011, 02:16 AM
An updated list of Under 12 entrants is now available on the CV web site.
Please follow this link:
http://www.chessvictoria.org.au/2011_u12_entrants.htm

Paul Cavezza
20-06-2011, 02:47 AM
Am I reading correctly that the entry fee per player is 50-60$ and the prize for winning an age group is.... 50$ plus a trophy?

ER
20-06-2011, 08:36 AM
Under 12 Entries as at 16.06.2011
1. Fan, Enoch 1606
2. Puccini, Jack 1412
3. Lim, Ethan 1380
4. Cannon, David 1343
5. Dale, Finley 1257
6. Lim, Denise 1162 female
7. Yuan, Daniel 1129
8. Chew, Jason 998
9. Chin, David 774
10. Loucas, Carl 688
11. Bhat, Vishal 676
12. Chan, Kris 633
13. Chan, Luis 592
14. Guo, Zhi Lin 532 female
15. Guo, Zhi Xin 478
16. Middleton, Jody 478 female
17. Yuan, Bill 457
18. You, Jennifer 433 female
19. Fan, Phoebe 328 female
20. Lin, Emily 315 female
21. Weeraratne, Ken 232
22. Patnaikuni, Ryan 220
23. You, Jessica 220 female
24. Ding, Adison
25. Fu, Chris
26. Gu Yang, Mingus
27. Gu Yang, Bonita female
28. Li, William
29. Patnaikuni, Jay
30. Thian, Eric
31. Vivekananda, Nischal
32. Wang, William
33. Weeraratne, Lucy female
34. Xu, Eddie

According to the official website the list of the U12s U10s and U8s has now increased to 54!!! Boys have the numbers though since only 14 girls have entered so far!

There is also a number of players who have entered the U18s, U16s, and U14s but since there might be some who have entered two or even more subdivisions you better check out the website!

http://www.chessvictoria.org.au/2011cv_tournaments.htm

that Caesar guy
20-06-2011, 11:10 AM
Am I reading correctly that the entry fee per player is 50-60$ and the prize for winning an age group is.... 50$ plus a trophy?
I'm reading that too...little bit ridiculous that, isn't it? :eek:

ER
20-06-2011, 07:51 PM
Am I reading correctly that the entry fee per player is 50-60$ and the prize for winning an age group is.... 50$ plus a trophy?


I'm reading that too...little bit ridiculous that, isn't it? :eek:

I was looking at the above entry fee / prize ratios myself. Inadvertently, I had to go through facts and figures in my disposal to establish certain positive/negative conclusions.

POSITIVE

16 different prizes. The chance of a person winning a prize is much higher than in your usual tournaments.

Last year more than 25 prizes (including = s) were paid!

The no. of players already registered (56 in the U12 and U10 categories quite a while before the actual tournament's starting date) indicates that parents and participants don't really care about entry fees and prizes. Competing vs their peers seems to be the main thing for juniors.

NEGATIVE

Indeed the ratio entry fee / prize is unfair to say the least. I wouldn't mind if it was something like entree fee $20 - $25 / prize money $25 - $30. But the $50 - $60 entry fee is a bit too much for a family whose financial situation doesn't allow for such luxuries.

The prize pool has fallen in comparison to last year! dramatically too! I won't give details here; MOZ is the man to provide you with money movements since he is the person who knows the safe's code and controls what's coming in and out!

SO WHAT NOW???

The above situation emphasises the importance of professional involvement in organising such important events.

The companies who base their operation on Chess should finance venues, prize funds, catering etc with Clubs (*) playing an auxiliary rather than protagonistic role.

The term "Clubs" does not include the MCC which in years to come will be an even more decisive factor than what it is now in whatever has to do with Chess affairs in Victoria.

This matter is too serious to be examined in a few short paragraphs. A more analytical discussion is necessary

Mischa
20-06-2011, 09:09 PM
Maybe there is a legit reason for the low prize offerings?
Is the cost of hosting the tournament high?

Kevin Bonham
20-06-2011, 10:30 PM
Am I reading correctly that the entry fee per player is 50-60$ and the prize for winning an age group is.... 50$ plus a trophy?

That seems odd to me too. As an organiser I'd feel more comfortable even charging half the entry fee and offering no prizemoney (just the trophies and make them good!) Generally I think it's insulting to have players winning a prize that's below their entry money (unless they tie for something they wouldn't win if there was tiebreak). I suppose that it's different when the player who wins the cash prize isn't the person who paid.

I've never seen entry fees so high for a two-day under-12 event. Clearly though they are getting plenty of entries so I assume that they know what they're doing. Remember the golden motto: chess equals childcare.

Mischa
20-06-2011, 11:26 PM
seems the Vic highest juniors are not entering...could this be the reason?

Kevin Bonham
20-06-2011, 11:38 PM
seems the Vic highest juniors are not entering...could this be the reason?

I doubt it because it's just the U12 division that has these small prizes per entry fee but the U18 division that is missing the pointy end at the moment (see U18 list here: http://www.chessvictoria.org.au/2011_u18_entrants.htm) For the U12s the third and fifth highest Vic U12 juniors are in. The second highest isn't much higher than the third and the highest (Zelesco) is so far ahead of the rest he'd have nothing to prove in this company no matter what the prize structure was.

ER
20-06-2011, 11:50 PM
seems the Vic highest juniors are not entering...could this be the reason?

The U18, U16, U14 entries so far


1. Dale, Ari 1874
2. Loh, Zachary 1728
3. Puccini, Jack 1412
4. Lim, Ethan 1380
5. Cannon, David 1343
6. Dale, Finley 1257
7. Lim, Denise 1162 female
8. Yuan, Daniel 1129
9. Ying, Jimmy 1078
10. Chew, Jason 998
11. Lee, Dmitry 972
12. Loucas, Carl 688
13. Ren, Kevin

The U12, U10, U8 entries so far


No Name Feder Rtg Loc Sex

1. Fan, Enoch pd50 1606
2. Chew Lee, Max pd50 1465
3. Puccini, Jack pd50 1412
4. Lim, Ethan pd50 1380
5. Cannon, David pd50 1343
6. Dale, Finley pd50 1257
7. Ni, John pd50 1238
8. Girgin, Ege VIC 1209
9. Lim, Denise pd50 1162 female
10. Gamage, Thumula VIC 1147
11. Yuan, Daniel pd50 1129
12. Chew, Jason pd50 998
13. Chin, David pd50 774
14. Fay, Jamie pd50 753
15. Chew Lee, Alanna pd50 732 female
16. Salasan, Haran pd50 726
17. Loucas, Carl pd50 688
18. Krstevski, Tristan pd50 683
19. Bhat, Vishal pd50 676
20. Chan, Kris pd50 633
21. Chan, Luis pd50 592
22. Chin, Chloe pd50 563 female
23. Bennett, Antonius pd50 556
24. Guo, Zhi Lin pd50 532 female
25. Guo, Zhi Xin pd50 478
26. Middleton, Jody pd50 478 female
27. Li, Oswald pd50 469
28. Yuan, Bill pd50 457
29. You, Jennifer pd50 433 female
30. Chau, Nathan pd50 394
31. Yu, Bobby pd50 376
32. Fan, Phoebe pd50 328 female
33. Lin, Emily pd50 315 female
34. Weeraratne, Ken pd50 232
35. Patnaikuni, Ryan pd50 220
36. You, Jessica pd50 220 female
37. Ding, Adison pd50
38. Fu, Chris pd50
39. Grech, Marc pd50
40. Gu Yang, Bonita pd50 female
41. Gu Yang, Mingus pd50
42. Lee, Ewan pd50
43. Lee, Lutjen pd50
44. Li, William pd50
45. Mendes, Amelia pd50 female
46. Patnaikuni, Jay pd50
47. Salazar, Mae pd50 female
48. Thian, Eric pd50
49. Vivekananda, Nischal pd50
50. Wang, William pd50
51. Weeraratne, Lucy pd50 female
52. Xu, Eddie pd50
53. Zhang, Tianli pd50
54. Zhang, Emily pd50 female
55. Liang, Cedric pd50
56. Dingfielder, Carl pd60


Last Year's U18 results


Place Name Feder Rtg Loc Score Progr. M-Buch. Buch.

1 Matheson, Laurence U14 2009 7.5 39.0 39.5 50.5
2 Tang, Jason U18 1992 6.5 34.5 37.5 49.5
3-8 Tang, Jonathan U18 1456 6 34.0 38.0 49.5
Feng, Thomas U16 1711 6 31.0 36.0 47.0
Gibson, Kyle U14 1285 6 29.5 35.5 44.0
Addamo, Michael U16 1589 6 29.5 34.5 45.0
Zelesco, Karl U14 1604 6 28.0 33.5 40.5
Liu, Nicholas U16 1612 6 25.5 34.0 44.0
9-14 Hibberd, Nathan U16 1460 5.5 35.0 40.0 50.5
Chan, Michael U14 1764 5.5 28.0 35.5 46.0
Lai, Gene U16 1564 5.5 28.0 32.0 42.5
Lekkas, Frank U18 1629 5.5 27.0 34.0 41.5
Fan, Kevin E U14 1224 5.5 26.0 35.0 45.0
Fan, Enoch U14 1243 5.5 25.0 31.5 40.5
15-18 Dale, Ari U14 1499 5 31.5 37.0 49.0
Loh, Zachary U14 1432 5 29.5 38.5 49.5
Wong, Joseph U14 1393 5 24.0 33.5 44.0
Yuan, Daniel U14 975 5 21.5 32.5 40.0
19-27 Chew Lee, Max U14 852 4.5 25.5 34.5 43.5
Tuncer, Deniz U14 1502 4.5 25.0 33.5 42.5
Parsons, Sasha U14 1072 4.5 23.5 36.5 47.0
Wallmueller, Peter U14 1239 4.5 23.0 29.5 38.0
Hughes, Jack U14 4.5 21.0 30.0 36.5
Cheah, Matthew U14 535 4.5 19.5 30.5 37.0
Narenthran, Savithri U14G 952 4.5 18.5 31.5 38.5
Narenthran, Janaki U16G 679 4.5 18.5 25.0 31.5
Yung, Cameron U14 937 4.5 15.5 27.5 34.5
28-33 Tanner, Michael U14 1266 4 25.0 33.0 40.5
Ying, Jimmy U14 695 4 21.5 34.0 43.0
Cannon, David U14 870 4 21.0 34.5 44.0
Nowak, Ruben U18 696 4 20.0 32.0 39.5
Poh, Clement U14 570 4 17.0 29.5 36.0
Dilnutt, Charlotte U16G 612 4 14.0 24.5 31.5
34 Devarajh, Joshua U14 1280 3.5 22.0 34.0 41.5
35-37 Dale, Finley U14 831 3 18.0 31.0 38.5
Gu, Stephanie U14G 641 3 14.0 25.5 32.0
Lai, William U14 3 13.0 21.0 26.5
38-40 Ravitharan, Sakthi U16G 608 2 8.0 19.0 25.5
Chan, Jason U14 2 7.0 29.0 35.5
Avitabile, Joshua U14 2 3.0 22.5 28.0
41-44 Goswami, Shreya U14G 851 1 8.0 25.0 32.0
Fan, Phoebe U14G 301 1 5.0 24.5 31.5
Lenard, Riley U18 1140 1 2.0 5.0 16.0
Nguyen, Callum pd 1 1.0 6.5 6.5

Last Year's U12 results


Place Name Feder Rtg Loc Score Progr. M-Buch. Buch.

1-2 Devarajh, Joshua U12 1280 6 25.0 24.0 32.5
Zelesco, Karl U12 1604 6 23.0 24.0 31.5
3-5 Ni, John U12 962 5.5 26.0 23.5 32.5
Narenthran, Savithri U12G 952 5.5 22.0 22.5 30.5
Kiripitige, Punala U12 1406 5.5 21.5 21.5 29.5
6-16 Chew Lee, Max U12 852 5 23.5 23.5 32.5
Puccini, Jack U12 975 5 23.0 24.5 34.5
Lim, Denise U12G 993 5 22.0 21.5 28.5
Dale, Finley U10 831 5 21.5 22.5 31.5
Wallmueller, Peter U10 1239 5 21.5 21.5 28.5
Lim, Ethan U8 1004 5 21.5 20.5 29.5
Yuan, Daniel U10 975 5 21.0 22.0 30.5
Dale, Ari U12 1499 5 20.0 22.5 30.5
Wong, Joseph U12 1393 5 20.0 21.0 29.0
Chang, William U10 728 5 19.0 19.0 27.0
Gamage, Thumula U12 872 5 19.0 18.0 25.0
17-20 Parsons, Sasha U12 1072 4.5 22.5 22.5 31.0
Cannon, David U10 870 4.5 22.0 22.5 30.0
Tissainayagam, Jonathan U12 748 4.5 18.0 19.0 27.0
Ying, Jimmy U12 695 4.5 18.0 18.5 26.5
21-37 Fan, Enoch U10 1243 4 20.0 22.0 31.0
Poh, Clement U12 570 4 20.0 22.0 30.5
Yu, David U12 618 4 18.0 20.5 27.5
Cheah, Matthew U12 535 4 18.0 20.0 26.5
Chin, David U12 437 4 17.0 22.0 31.0
Moad, David U12 334 4 17.0 19.5 26.5
Wong, Emmanuel U10 4 16.0 21.0 29.0
Pecori, Rafael U10 378 4 16.0 17.5 24.5
Chau, Nathan U12 4 15.5 18.0 25.5
Kim, Diana U12G 4 15.0 20.5 27.5
Girgin, Ege U12 4 15.0 18.0 24.5
Chan, Rachael U12G 4 15.0 17.0 25.0
Dowley, Owen U12 340 4 15.0 16.5 22.5
Simpson, Max U10 4 15.0 16.5 22.0
Fleskens, Hayden U12 4 14.0 16.5 23.5
Guo, Zhi Lin U12G 4 13.0 17.0 24.0
Sathe, Aditya U12 175 4 11.0 14.5 19.5
38-43 Gu, Stephanie U12G 641 3.5 16.5 21.0 29.0
Foo, May-Yi U10G 493 3.5 15.5 18.0 25.5
Chen, Steven U12 3.5 14.5 17.5 25.5
Mack, Jason U12 3.5 13.5 16.0 22.0
Hibberd, Aaron U12 209 3.5 12.5 16.5 23.5
Lai, Henry U10 3.5 12.5 16.5 22.0
44-61 Lipp, Joshua U10 3 15.0 22.5 29.5
Yong, Jarrod U12 3 14.0 17.5 23.5
Zing, Alex U12 3 14.0 16.0 21.5
Loucas, Carl U8 3 13.0 20.5 28.5
Lyons, Mitchell VIC 3 13.0 18.0 24.5
You, Jennifer U12G 3 12.0 17.5 23.5
You, Jessica U12G 3 12.0 15.5 21.0
Lai, Dominic U10 3 12.0 15.0 20.0
Middleton, Jody U8G 3 11.0 18.0 24.0
Xu, Eddie U10 3 10.0 17.0 23.0
Hinh, Patrick U12 3 10.0 14.5 20.0
Lindstrom, Sebastian U8 3 9.0 16.0 23.0
Hinh, Raymond U10 3 9.0 15.5 23.0
Kiripitige, Chatula U8 3 9.0 13.5 19.0
Dowley, Liam U8 3 9.0 13.0 20.0
Fan, Phoebe U8G 3 9.0 12.5 19.5
Ding, Adison U8 3 7.0 10.0 16.0
Dempsey, Timothy UI2 3 6.0 14.0 20.0
62-64 Yu, Bobby U8 2.5 10.5 16.0 21.0
Ross, Trinity U12G 2.5 10.0 16.0 22.5
Frentiu, Angela U10G 2.5 8.0 12.5 17.5
65-74 Chew Lee, Alanna U10G 2 12.0 17.5 24.5
Guo, Zhi Xin U8 2 10.0 14.0 20.0
Chen, Phoenix U10G 2 9.0 15.5 20.5
Wong, Althea U8G 2 8.0 15.5 20.0
Wang, Andrew U8 2 8.0 15.0 20.5
Tran, Benjamin Van U10 2 8.0 14.0 19.5
Zelesco, Mia U10G 2 6.0 14.0 20.0
Fleskens, Mitchell U8 2 5.0 15.5 21.5
Chen, Rachel U8G 2 5.0 13.0 17.5
Chiovitti, Tyrone U10 2 5.0 11.5 18.0
75-77 Wallmueller, Theo U8 1 5.0 13.5 19.0
Renshaw, Jaimee U8G 1 5.0 13.0 19.0
Chen, Kevin U8 1 2.0 15.0 20.5
78-79 Chen, Nikki U10G 0.5 2.0 13.5 19.0
Kahawe, Noyali U10G 0.5 2.0 13.5 17.5
80 Yu, Eddy pd 0 0.0 0.0 0.0



You might find the above information helpful. However, entry lists of last year on a similar entry fee , and / or strength of participants basis indicate that those factors did not affect the rather impressive number of participants!

All data taken from CV's website!

ER
21-06-2011, 07:20 PM
Maybe there is a legit reason for the low prize offerings?
Is the cost of hosting the tournament high?

As I have indicated in another posting


The prize pool has fallen in comparison to last year! dramatically too! I won't give details here; MOZ is the man to provide you with money movements since he is the person who knows the safe's code and controls what's coming in and out!

Maybe last year's dramatic paraklesis to the outside world for help


All Junior tournaments in Victoria are run on a tight budgets and this the 2010 Vic Junior championships are no exception.
Donations or sponsorship will be gratefully accepted

presents a valid explanation ... Also

if this continues to be the case


The trophies are donated by the Canterbury Junior Chess Club the organizer of the tournament

then MOZ (treasurer of both CV and BH / CJCC) has some valid excuses to slightly increase the entry fee and dramatically decrease the prize money pool!

What can I do? I am only a poor globetrotter having just returned from a delightful Tassie journey and preparing for my overseas trips (three of them for the next seven months).

I made a donation to the Club for the Vic Open.

I think they owe me some money for a prize won (at BHCC) earlier this year! They can keep that too!

BTW I I gratefully acknowledge all the consideration shown to me by all my clubs who were so kind to give me pensioner discounts this year that I am on disabilty support pension (till next May hehe)!
BTW II I am yet to receive any support, let alone a pension! Frigging income tests! :eek: :wall:

Laserlite
28-06-2011, 05:35 PM
1. Bennett, Antonius u12 556
2. Bhat, Vishal u10 676
3. Cannon, David u10 1343
4. Chan, Kris u10 633
5. Chan, Luis u8 592
6. Chau, Nathan u14 394
7. Chew, Jason u12 998
8. Chew Lee, Max u12 1465
9. Chew Lee, Alanna u12 732
10. Chin, David u12 774
11. Chin, Chloe u12 563
12. Dale, Finley u12 1257
13. Dempsey, Timothy u12
14. Dessaou, Daniel u8
15. Devendra, Sithum u10
16. Ding, Adison u10
17. Dingfielder, Carl u10
18. Fan, Enoch u10 1606
19. Fan, Phoebe u10 328
20. Fay, Jamie u10 753
21. Foo, Calvin u8 265
22. Fu, Chris u10
23. Gamage, Thumula u12 1147
24. Gao, Daniel u8
25. Girgin, Ege u12 1209
26. Grech, Marc u8
27. Gu Yang, Mingus u10
28. Gu Yang, Bonita u12
29. Guo, Zhi Lin u12 532
30. Guo, Zhi Xin u10 478
31. Jassal, Xavier u8
32. Karassoulos, George u10 852
33. Krstevski, Tristan u12 683
34. Lee, Ewan u10
35. Lee, Lutjen u8
36. Li, Oswald u12 469
37. Li, William u8
38. Liang, Cedric u12
39. Lim, Ethan u10 1380
40. Lim, Denise u12 1162
41. Lin, Emily u8 315
42. Lindstrom, Sebastian u10 209
43. Loucas, Carl u10 688
44. Mendes, Amelia u10
45. Middleton, Jody u8 478
46. Natawidjaja, Ethan
47. Ni, John u12 1238
48. Patnaikuni, Ryan u8 220
49. Patnaikuni, Jay u10
50. Pecori, Rafael u12 451
51. Poberezovsky, Daniel VIC
52. Puccini, Jack u12 1412
53. Qi, Glen u10 1378
54. Renshaw, Jaimee u10
55. Salasan, Haran u10 726
56. Salazar, Mae u12
57. Strickland, Rebecca u12
58. Thian, Eric u12
59. Vivekananda, Nischal u8
60. Wang, William u10
61. Weeraratne, Ken u8 232
62. Weeraratne, Lucy u10
63. Xu, Eddie u10
64. You, Jennifer u12 433
65. You, Jessica u12 220
66. Yu, Bobby u8 376
67. Yuan, Daniel u12 1129
68. Yuan, Bill u12 457
69. Zhang, Emily u10
70. Zhang, Tianli u8



1. Fan, Enoch u10 1606
2. Chew Lee, Max u12 1465
3. Puccini, Jack u12 1412
4. Lim, Ethan u10 1380
5. Qi, Glen u10 1378
6. Cannon, David u10 1343
7. Dale, Finley u12 1257
8. Ni, John u12 1238
9. Girgin, Ege u12 1209
10. Lim, Denise u12 1162
11. Gamage, Thumula u12 1147
12. Yuan, Daniel u12 1129
13. Chew, Jason u12 998
14. Karassoulos, George u10 852
15. Chin, David u12 774
16. Fay, Jamie u10 753
17. Chew Lee, Alanna u12 732
18. Salasan, Haran u10 726
19. Loucas, Carl u10 688
20. Krstevski, Tristan u12 683
21. Bhat, Vishal u10 676
22. Chan, Kris u10 633
23. Chan, Luis u8 592
24. Chin, Chloe u12 563
25. Bennett, Antonius u12 556
26. Guo, Zhi Lin u12 532
27. Guo, Zhi Xin u10 478
28. Middleton, Jody u8 478
29. Li, Oswald u12 469
30. Yuan, Bill u12 457
31. Pecori, Rafael u12 451
32. You, Jennifer u12 433
33. Chau, Nathan u14 394
34. Yu, Bobby u8 376
35. Fan, Phoebe u10 328
36. Lin, Emily u8 315
37. Foo, Calvin u8 265
38. Weeraratne, Ken u8 232
39. Patnaikuni, Ryan u8 220
40. You, Jessica u12 220
41. Lindstrom, Sebastian u10 209
42. Ding, Adison u10
43. Dingfielder, Carl u10
44. Fu, Chris u10
45. Grech, Marc u8
46. Gu Yang, Mingus u10
47. Gu Yang, Bonita u12
48. Jassal, Xavier u8
49. Lee, Ewan u10
50. Lee, Lutjen u8
51. Li, William u8
52. Liang, Cedric u12
53. Mendes, Amelia u10
54. Patnaikuni, Jay u10
55. Renshaw, Jaimee u10
56. Salazar, Mae u12
57. Thian, Eric u12
58. Vivekananda, Nischal u8
59. Wang, William u10
60. Weeraratne, Lucy u10
61. Xu, Eddie u10
62. Zhang, Emily u10
63. Zhang, Tianli u8
64. Poberezovsky, Daniel VIC
65. Dessaou, Daniel u8
66. Natawidjaja, Ethan
67. Strickland, Rebecca u12
68. Gao, Daniel u8
69. Dempsey, Timothy u12
70. Devendra, Sithum u10

Oepty
28-06-2011, 06:56 PM
I spy a South Australian on the list! It looks like an excellent field both in quantity and quality.
Scott

Chigoresov
29-06-2011, 02:55 PM
"Rate of Play: 40 minutes plus 30 seconds from move one***
Ratings All games will be rated on the ACF ratings list."

(For the U8-U12's)

According to my knowledge, these time controls cannot be rated.

Ninja
29-06-2011, 05:39 PM
"Rate of Play: 40 minutes plus 30 seconds from move one***
Ratings All games will be rated on the ACF ratings list."

(For the U8-U12's)

According to my knowledge, these time controls cannot be rated.

You need to update your knowledge...:cool:

From ACF constitution bylaw;
http://www.auschess.org.au/constitution/Ratings_By-Law.txt

(4) Games using increments in the time control will be accepted for rating -

(a) in the normal list provided they are of the form G/Xmins + Ysecs per move
from move 1 where X and Y are 30 or greater or where X is 60 or greater; or

Last time I did maths both 30 and 40 are equal to or greater than 30:)

Kevin Bonham
29-06-2011, 06:25 PM
Ninja is correct. In fact not only is 40/+30 rateable on the main list, but 30/+30 is too.

Chigoresov
29-06-2011, 08:17 PM
I thought 60+10secs was the minimum.

OK, I wonder if the U8's are also required to keep an accurate score-sheet?

:rolleyes:

Ninja
30-06-2011, 09:22 AM
I thought 60+10secs was the minimum.

OK, I wonder if the U8's are also required to keep an accurate score-sheet?

:rolleyes:
There is generally a session before play starts which goes over how to record your moves for any players that have not needed to do it previously.

Garvinator
30-06-2011, 09:59 AM
I thought 60+10secs was the minimum.
If the time control increment is less than 30 secs per move, then the minimum initial time offered must be 60 minutes per player.

If the time control increment is 30 secs or more, then the minimum initial time offered must be 30 minutes per player.

The quirk of the system is that 59 mins plus 29 secs would be rapid rated, but 60 mins guillotine would be classical rated :uhoh:

Kevin Bonham
30-06-2011, 01:55 PM
The quirk of the system is that 59 mins plus 29 secs would be rapid rated, but 60 mins guillotine would be classical rated :uhoh:

Not really a quirk given that in 59/+29 scoring is not required at any stage of the game.

Publicist
02-07-2011, 12:28 PM
This is the link that will take you to the results and standings throughout the weekend: http://www.chessvictoria.org.au/2011_u12_results.htm

Oepty
02-07-2011, 03:57 PM
Thank you very much for the updates. After 2 rounds most of the top seeds have made it through unscathed. Glen Qi however lost to Zhi Lin Guo.
It would be more useful if the crosstable showed the scores and was in score order.
Scott

Publicist
02-07-2011, 09:29 PM
i generally prefer to keep the cross table in start order and the standings in score order. Details now on CV web site

Laserlite
03-07-2011, 09:26 AM
1-9 Fan, Enoch u10 1606 3
Chew Lee, Max u12 1465 3
Cannon, David u10 1343 3
Girgin, Ege u12 1209 3
Yuan, Daniel u12 1129 3
Zelesco, Karl u12 2038 3
Dale, Finley u12 1257 3
Ni, John u12 1238 3
Lim, Ethan u10 1380 3
10-11 Lee, Ewan u10 2.5
Hu, Luke u12 2.5
12-39 Puccini, Jack u12 1412 2
Foo, May-Yi u12 1000 2
Karassoulos, George u10 852 2
Weeraratne, Ken u8 232 2
Middleton, Jody u8 478 2
Guo, Zhi Lin u12 532 2
Lim, Denise u12 1162 2
Gamage, Thumula u12 1147 2
Loucas, Carl u10 688 2
Qi, Glen u10 1378 2
Maligin, William u10 858 2
Chan, Kris u10 633 2
Chan, Luis u8 592 2
Fay, Jamie u10 753 2
Chew Lee, Alanna u12 732 2
Salasan, Haran u10 726 2
Lai, Henry VIC 522 2
Li, Oswald u12 469 2
Yuan, Bill u12 457 2
Gu Yang, Bonita u12 2
Zhang, Tianli u8 2
Chin, Chloe u12 563 2
Yu, Bobby u8 376 2
Foo, Calvin u8 265 2
Gu Yang, Mingus u10 2
Li, William u8 2
Chin, David u12 774 2
Strickland, Rebecca u12 2
40-45 Krstevski, Tristan u12 683 1.5
Chew, Jason u12 998 1.5
Bhat, Vishal u10 676 1.5
You, Jennifer u12 433 1.5
Devendra, Nethum u10 1.5
Salazar, Mae u12 1.5
46-73 Lai, Dominic u12 1
Bennett, Antonius u12 556 1
Guo, Zhi Xin u10 478 1
Fan, Phoebe u10 328 1
Patnaikuni, Ryan u8 220 1
You, Jessica u12 220 1
Lindstrom, Sebastian u10 209 1
Alapgappin, Vignesh u12 1
Simpson, Max u10 492 1
Pecori, Rafael u12 451 1
Devendra, Sithum u10 1
Ding, Adison u10 1
Lee, Lutjen u8 1
Fu, Chris u10 1
Wong, Vincent u8 1
Dempsey, Timothy u12 1
Iacuzzi, Miro u10 1
Vivekananda, Nischal u8 1
Li, Ruimin u8 1
Dingfielder, Carl u10 1
Thian, Eric u12 1
Patnaikuni, Jay u10 1
Mendis, Shanaya u12 1
Murphy, Ben u10 1
Zhang, Emily u10 1
Liang, Cedric u12 1
Mendes, Amelia u10 1
Natawidjaja, Ethan u10 1
74-86 Muzzin, Tommy u12 0
Gao, Daniel u8 0
Xu, Eddie u10 0
Weeraratne, Lucy u10 0
Lin, Emily u8 315 0
Dessaou, Daniel u8 0
Grech, Marc u8 0
Poberezovsky, Daniel u8 0
Weerassekera, Lakni u10 0
Renshaw, Jaimee u10 0
Welsch, Maximillian u10 0
Jassal, Xavier u8 0
Wang, William u10 0

Laserlite
03-07-2011, 09:27 AM
1 David Cannon [3] : Karl Zelesco [3]
2 Enoch Fan [3] : John Ni [3]
3 Finley Dale [3] : Max Chew Lee [3]
4 Ege Girgin [3] : Ethan Lim [3]
5 Luke Hu [2.5] : Daniel Yuan [3]
6 Jack Puccini [2] : Ewan Lee [2.5]
7 Glen Qi [2] : Chloe Chin [2]
8 Henry Lai [2] : Denise Lim [2]
9 Thumula Gamage [2] : Zhi Lin Guo [2]
10 May-Yi Foo [2] : Jody Middleton [2]
11 William Maligin [2] : Bill Yuan [2]
12 Oswald Li [2] : George Karassoulos [2]
13 David Chin [2] : Calvin Foo [2]
14 Bobby Yu [2] : Jamie Fay [2]
15 Alanna Chew Lee [2] : Mingus Gu Yang [2]
16 Bonita Gu Yang [2] : Haran Salasan [2]
17 Carl Loucas [2] : Tianli Zhang [2]
18 Ken Weeraratne [2] : Kris Chan [2]
19 Luis Chan [2] : William Li [2]
20 Rebecca Strickland [2] : Tristan Krstevski [1.5]
21 Jason Chew [1.5] : Jennifer You [1.5]
22 Vishal Bhat [1.5] : Mae Salazar [1.5]
23 Antonius Bennett [1] : Nethum Devendra [1.5]
24 Miro Iacuzzi [1] : Max Simpson [1]
25 Zhi Xin Guo [1] : Dominic Lai [1]
26 Lutjen Lee [1] : Rafael Pecori [1]
27 Phoebe Fan [1] : Amelia Mendes [1]
28 Ruimin Li [1] : Ryan Patnaikuni [1]
29 Jessica You [1] : Shanaya Mendis [1]
30 Cedric Liang [1] : Sebastian Lindstrom [1]
31 Vignesh Alapgappin [1] : Eric Thian [1]
32 Jay Patnaikuni [1] : Timothy Dempsey [1]
33 Sithum Devendra [1] : Ben Murphy [1]
34 Nischal Vivekananda [1] : Adison Ding [1]
35 Carl Dingfielder [1] : Vincent Wong [1]
36 Emily Zhang [1] : Chris Fu [1]
37 Emily Lin [0] : Ethan Natawidjaja [1]
38 Daniel Dessaou [0] : Lakni Weerassekera [0]
39 Jaimee Renshaw [0] : Daniel Gao [0]
40 Lucy Weeraratne [0] : Marc Grech [0]
41 Eddie Xu [0] : Daniel Poberezovsky [0]
42 Tommy Muzzin [0] : BYE

ER
03-07-2011, 09:36 AM
dat's nutz!

ever had any doubt? :P

Publicist
03-07-2011, 10:37 PM
The final results are now available on the CV website. Prize winners have yet to be checked. See previous posts for the link

Bereaved
04-07-2011, 04:09 PM
Congratulations to Karl Zelesco on a dominating performance in the Under 12's winning with 7/7; Karl never looked troubled in any of his games!:clap: :clap: :clap:

Take care and God Bless, Bereaved

Publicist
07-07-2011, 05:57 PM
n updated entry list for the under 18 tournament is now available on the CV website www.chessvictoria.org.au

BenjaminSpencer
08-07-2011, 03:07 PM
Hi, both me and my brother will be playing as well. We're both unrated

Spencer, Benjamin
Spencer, Thomas

We posted the entry forms with the cheque on Wednesday from Warrnambool so hopefully you'll get them on time.

Publicist
08-07-2011, 05:45 PM
With the entry of the Spencers the list has blown out to 33. Here is the link:
http://www.chessvictoria.org.au/2011_u18_entrants.htm

Publicist
12-07-2011, 02:29 PM
Please follow this link for the results and standings throughout the tournament:http://www.chessvictoria.org.au/2011_u18_results.htm

ozman
12-07-2011, 08:24 PM
Hi Publicist,
Any updates for the tournament?

Publicist
12-07-2011, 08:58 PM
All todays results are now on CV web site. The link is holding well

Carl Gorka
13-07-2011, 11:47 AM
I'm there (http://gorkachc.blogspot.com/2011/07/victorian-junior-championship-2011.html) :)

Paul Cavezza
13-07-2011, 03:17 PM
The big question is will the organisers go for the traditional:
http://us.cdn3.123rf.com/168nwm/hatza/hatza1010/hatza101000010/8079117-robber-carrying-a-sack-of-money.jpg
robber with dollar sign exit

or the more lavish:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a177/jeanpaulsartre/cashcar.png
sports car full of money!

The response from organisers on this has been average- I think they should release the budget for trophies etc. On face value it looks completely unfair

Paul

Carl Gorka
13-07-2011, 05:44 PM
I'm back again :) (http://gorkachc.blogspot.com/2011/07/victorian-junior-championship-into.html)

Carl Gorka
14-07-2011, 01:04 PM
And again :owned: (http://gorkachc.blogspot.com/2011/07/another-day-at-victorian-juniors.html)

ER
14-07-2011, 01:31 PM
hey Fireeater, I had forgotten about this thanks! :)

flushfyre
14-07-2011, 03:09 PM
To anyone who has, or intends to whine about the prizes:

1. If BHCC is doing such a bad job, another club is welcome to host the juniors next year. The fact that no other clubs have put in bids to host it either suggests confidence in BHCC or indifference to the tournament - in neither of these cases do third parties have the right to grumble.

2. As far as I know, no player in the tournament has complained about the prize pool. The players are just happy to play chess. The entry fee is paid so that the players can play seven interesting games of chess, and if that goal is met, the organisers have achieved their purpose. Prizemoney is not a component of the entry fee, it is simply an added reward for doing well. Many chessplayers would do well to refrain from measuring the value of a tournament by its monetary output.

3. In any case, any excess money is circulated back through the club and does not go into the pockets of the organisers, as people like to assume. BHCC is a not-for-profit club (the phrase 'run only to benefit members' comes to mind). If you don't like the current tournament format, you can make a suggestion to CV, but please don't make subversive remarks or just vent to nobody in particular.

Thank you Carl for the updates. Your style of writing is both interesting an informative for those who are not at the venue. May I ask either BHCC or Carl to post more completed games online? Or if there is a way for me to extract the games from the DGT boards as pgn, that would be equivalent.

Carl Gorka
14-07-2011, 04:54 PM
hey Fireeater, I had forgotten about this thanks! :)

Well tomorrow you will have to remember things for yourself....I am spending the day with my beautiful wife, and it won't be at any chess club:lol:

Kai
14-07-2011, 05:08 PM
To anyone who has, or intends to whine about the prizes:



2. As far as I know, no player in the tournament has complained about the prize pool. The players are just happy to play chess. The entry fee is paid so that the players can play seven interesting games of chess, and if that goal is met, the organisers have achieved their purpose. Prizemoney is not a component of the entry fee, it is simply an added reward for doing well. Many chessplayers would do well to refrain from measuring the value of a tournament by its monetary output.




I agree.

As usual, Justin is not competing because this always clashes with his gymnastics national championships (he is in Canberra right now). However, if he had been free, his reasons for entering would be:

1. Strength of opponents / tournament
2. Vic title
3. If his friends were competing
4. Having fun

If the tournament had been FIDE rated, this would have been a significant factor also (probably no.3).

Prize-money would definitely not feature at all. He has never been interested or even known how much prize-money there is. It simply isn't a factor at all, let alone an important one.

As a financial exercise, I am sure nearly every parent would agree, chess would be classified as a financial disaster :) - we will never ever recoup the amount we have already spent over the years in air fares, hotels, coaching etc.....so even if Justin won $100 or won $500, the amounts are academic in the scheme of things.

So, seriously, I don't really understand why prize-money should be even a consideration here. These kids are not doing it for a living.

Carl Gorka
14-07-2011, 05:15 PM
To anyone who has, or intends to whine about the prizes:

1. If BHCC is doing such a bad job, another club is welcome to host the juniors next year. The fact that no other clubs have put in bids to host it either suggests confidence in BHCC or indifference to the tournament - in neither of these cases do third parties have the right to grumble.

I agree that prizes shouldn't be a focus for grumbling, but if there is indifference towards the state championship, then that is a cause for concern, and one that should be addressed.


2. As far as I know, no player in the tournament has complained about the prize pool. The players are just happy to play chess. The entry fee is paid so that the players can play seven interesting games of chess, and if that goal is met, the organisers have achieved their purpose. Prizemoney is not a component of the entry fee, it is simply an added reward for doing well. Many chessplayers would do well to refrain from measuring the value of a tournament by its monetary output.

Actually, they are playing 9 games, and as there is no sponsorship (AFAIK)
the entry fee is directly related to the prizes. However, I will reiterate that my own point of view is that prize money in junior events is not a necessity.


3. In any case, any excess money is circulated back through the club and does not go into the pockets of the organisers, as people like to assume. BHCC is a not-for-profit club (the phrase 'run only to benefit members' comes to mind). If you don't like the current tournament format, you can make a suggestion to CV, but please don't make subversive remarks or just vent to nobody in particular.

I would personally like to see more input from CV here, so that the profits which are going to BHCC is actually going to CV. I do agree that if BHCC, or any other chess club takes on the role of organising the event, then they should take whatever profit comes with that (as of course, they would have to cover any loss).


Thank you Carl for the updates. Your style of writing is both interesting an informative for those who are not at the venue. May I ask either BHCC or Carl to post more completed games online? Or if there is a way for me to extract the games from the DGT boards as pgn, that would be equivalent.

Roger Croft is doing a great job of trying to decipher junior score sheets. It may be that some games are made available, but what would help is if a couple of volunteers were prepared to help to input games. Otherwise, things won't happen as there aren't enough people to even do the jobs that need to be done.

Carl Gorka
14-07-2011, 05:17 PM
I agree.

As usual, Justin is not competing because this always clashes with his gymnastics national championships (he is in Canberra right now). However, if he had been free, his reasons for entering would be:

1. Strength of opponents / tournament
2. Vic title
3. If his friends were competing
4. Having fun

If the tournament had been FIDE rated, this would have been a significant factor also (probably no.3).

Prize-money would definitely not feature at all. He has never been interested or even known how much prize-money there is. It simply isn't a factor at all, let alone an important one.

As a financial exercise, I am sure nearly every parent would agree, chess would be classified as a financial disaster :) - we will never ever recoup the amount we have already spent over the years in air fares, hotels, coaching etc.....so even if Justin won $100 or won $500, the amounts are academic in the scheme of things.

So, seriously, I don't really understand why prize-money should be even a consideration here. These kids are not doing it for a living.

Good luck to Justin in Canberra :clap:

ER
14-07-2011, 07:12 PM
Well tomorrow you will have to remember things for yourself....
I am spending the day with my beautiful wife, and it won't be at any chess club:lol:


hey hey hey gimme a break man! :P I was away for almost three weeks getting romantic in various places with various people! :P I didn't spare a thought about chess either! more important things in life etc! :) BTW for a good coffee tip when you 're next in Tassie see my post in that silly thread in the politics! I will try to find it and repost it here! :) and don't forget the next coffee with cakes etc is on me! :)

Mr. Pawn
14-07-2011, 11:46 PM
I agree.

As usual, Justin is not competing because this always clashes with his gymnastics national championships (he is in Canberra right now). However, if he had been free, his reasons for entering would be:

1. Strength of opponents / tournament
2. Vic title
3. If his friends were competing
4. Having fun

If the tournament had been FIDE rated, this would have been a significant factor also (probably no.3).

Prize-money would definitely not feature at all. He has never been interested or even known how much prize-money there is. It simply isn't a factor at all, let alone an important one.

As a financial exercise, I am sure nearly every parent would agree, chess would be classified as a financial disaster :) - we will never ever recoup the amount we have already spent over the years in air fares, hotels, coaching etc.....so even if Justin won $100 or won $500, the amounts are academic in the scheme of things.

So, seriously, I don't really understand why prize-money should be even a consideration here. These kids are not doing it for a living.

I agree with Kai here, especially points 1 and 3 (2 would be relevant too I guess ;) )

The prize money is nice, but most people that are commenting on that have I think missed the point of the tournament, and the title is much more important.

I also think this year Box Hill have been a little unlucky because the dates have meant both Bobby and Justin are unable to compete. I didn't participate mainly because of this, and I assumed that like previous years, the likes of James and Eugene wouldn't compete (which was partly true), so points 1 and 3 wouldn't have been fulfilled (and point 2 was achieved last year, so I didn't see any point in repeating it).

Still the question remains... How do you make the tournament attractive to the top juniors?

I think if you can get an early entry from someone like Bobby, Justin or James then the others will follow suit, so I think the main problem was this year James entered too late! (Sorry James for putting all the blame on you ;) ) Probably it didn't help that I was too much of a wimp to go in it :)

This isn't to say that there is no one in the competition. In fact, the competition is still pretty strong with the next wave of talent (Karl, Michael, Ari, Zach among others), but the people I'm talking about are the 2000+'s like Eugene (who is probably also busy with VCE)

Finally... GO JUSTIN

Mischa
15-07-2011, 01:54 AM
Just for the record... I agree..(as if a mother'e opinion has much sway)
The older juniors are pretty much "over" the titles.
Bobby... under 10 world champ
James... young IM
So the title only probably has importance to the kids that have not won it.
(not like the Australian junior...that seems to be worth winning over and over)
So though I agree that money SHOULD not be an issue...what is there to entice a top junior to compete?
title ...well not worth the higher juniors competing it seems
rating points to...hang on... lose
in these tournaments , for the top juniors, there is not a lot to gain
only possible points to be lost.
James is playing for his own reasons...and good on him...but he has little to gain and much to lose.
Ask perhaps what the top juniors have to gain from this tournament..then think how we might entice them to return and play in the future

Mischa
15-07-2011, 02:00 AM
FYI..money is a big incentive for the older kids...Mc Donalds can eat into your budget big time!!!

Mischa
15-07-2011, 02:08 AM
I like Carl's idea of incentive in terms of automatic inclusion in the Vic Champs for eg...tho this would not work for a lot of the older kids...
What about sponsered entry into the Aus junior as an official Vic representative?
THAT may work
actually that may work at all age groups

WhiteElephant
15-07-2011, 07:54 AM
The prizes these days have improved since my time as a junior 20 years ago. The first time I won the Vic U/14s I got a book of puzzles. The second time I got a medallion on a small stand. Still waiting for my prize the third time as apparently there was some problem with the engraving.

But who cares about that - what I value most, 20 years later, are the titles and having my photo in The Age. I think it's a bit sad if the focus has shifted from the prestige of the title to a few dollars. Having said that, I have experienced the same feedback from kids myself - when I gave out Vic Junior brochures at schools where I teach, I had a few kids point out that the cash prizes were only slightly higher than the entry fee. And these were kids who were not even likely to win them!

I don't really have a solution except to agree with Carl and others that we should be looking for other incentives apart from cash - sponsorship to tournaments, qualification for prestigious events, etc. And I bet if we had a culture where it is cool to participate in a Vic Juniors, have more girls playing, more socialising at tournaments, then we probably wouldn't even need to have this discussion.

Hobbes
15-07-2011, 09:18 AM
The older juniors are pretty much "over" the titles.
Bobby... under 10 world champ
James...

Strange...

Up until now I thought Bobby Cheng was much younger than James, also I thought it was the U12 World Championship Bobby won. Thanks for clearing that up, obviously I have been holding Bobby in too high a regard.

Mr. Pawn
15-07-2011, 09:28 AM
Strange...

Up until now I thought Bobby Cheng was much younger than James, also I thought it was the U12 World Championship Bobby won. Thanks for clearing that up, obviously I have been holding Bobby in too high a regard.

You were originally correct...
Bobby was the U12 world champion and is 2 (I think anyway) years younger than James


The older juniors are pretty much "over" the titles
True... to an extent. I think the u18 title now is a "nice thing to have" and doesn't quite have the prestige (for some reason or other) that it used to.

Having said that I believe Bobby would have played if the dates had have been better

Mischa
15-07-2011, 10:53 AM
My wrong...I should perhaps have said higher rated juniors.

Kai
15-07-2011, 10:53 AM
Having said that, I have experienced the same feedback from kids myself - when I gave out Vic Junior brochures at schools where I teach, I had a few kids point out that the cash prizes were only slightly higher than the entry fee. And these were kids who were not even likely to win them!

I think this actually reinforces the point. The kids here who gave you the feedback are not the serious players who understand that the point of a tournament is to play and enjoy strong and challenging chess. To the average "school-chess" kid, they would think that cash is more an incentive , and as you say, these are not even the kids who would win it.

To the strong top juniors, cash becomes a side-issue. The opportunity to play strong players and tough challenging games is the attraction.

More cash will not make any difference if you do not get the top juniors committed to entering early. If Justin had been free (hypothetically-speaking), and he saw that Bobby, Laurence, Eugene and James were in it, he would definitely have signed up. Until quite late, the top player was 1800+ rated and the main field looked to be about 1200-1500 , and so there isn't much to entice the top juniors to spend half of their school holidays doing the tournament.

Thanks Laurence and Carl for your good wishes to Justin in Canberra - will pass them on to him!

P.S. Comparing with gymnastics, there is no cash at all there, lots of expenditure in entry fees, kit, hotel etc. but the titles (both Vic and national) are highly-prestigious and therefore hard-fought over. Not a single cent of cash is offered or expected by competitors.

MichaelBaron
15-07-2011, 01:28 PM
Another relevant point in relation to the prize-money. It is usually parents (particularly with younger kids) who pay the entry fees but kids get to keep all the prize-money they win so the prizes are highly appreciated :). for the smaller kids even $100 is a lot of money as it can buy them 50 chocolate bars at the school canteen. 2 months of chocolate bars - not bad ;)

Secondly, having no prizes in gymnastics is not necessarily a good thing...just like its not a good thing to have poor prize money at the chess tournaments (both adult and junior). Having no professional chess players is what stops aus chess from developing further. Both Zhao and Smerdon could've been in the World top 100 if they only had a chance to to be professional.

Thirdly, winning a prize is a very nice feeling. Does not feel quite the same as getting paid at work - it does feel much better! And for 14 yo kids who do not have any jobs - what a great opportunity to earn!

Finally, if entry fees/accommodation/food are not provided to our top juniors for free - only some of them can afford to travel to chess tournaments and develop their skills further. Not all parents can afford to support their kids' chess activities by contributing $10,000 a year or so towards the chess development, so every dollar counts!

ER
15-07-2011, 02:06 PM
Another relevant point in relation to the prize-money. It is usually parents (particularly with younger kids) who pay the entry fees but kids get to keep all the prize-money they win so the prizes are highly appreciated :). for the smaller kids even $100 is a lot of money as it can buy them 50 chocolate bars at the school canteen. 2 months of chocolate bars - not bad ;)

Secondly, having no prizes in gymnastics is not necessarily a good thing...just like its not a good thing to have poor prize money at the chess tournaments (both adult and junior). Having no professional chess players is what stops aus chess from developing further. Both Zhao and Smerdon could've been in the World top 100 if they only had a chance to to be professional.

Thirdly, winning a prize is a very nice feeling. Does not feel quite the same as getting paid at work - it does feel much better! And for 14 yo kids who do not have any jobs - what a great opportunity to earn!

Finally, if entry fees/accommodation/food are not provided to our top juniors for free - only some of them can afford to travel to chess tournaments and develop their skills further. Not all parents can afford to support their kids' chess activities by contributing $10,000 a year or so towards the chess development, so every dollar counts!

all well said!
The need for (local and national) Chess authorities in co-operation with Chess coaching business to establish some sort of a fund to allow children from not so well off families to participate in Chess activities is necessary!
then again those in control know better! :)

Bereaved
15-07-2011, 04:01 PM
Congratulations to IM James Morris on winning the Victorian under 18 title with a round to spare! A truly dominating performance!! Well done!
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Take care and God bless, Bereaved

NRMASIFD&GKFKBBK
15-07-2011, 04:33 PM
Congratulations to IM James Morris on winning the U18 Victorian Title with a perfect 9/9 - a great performance.

It has been a relatively good year to date for James, winning 3 tournaments (Begonia, MCC Open & U18 Vic juniors). He has shown a real mature style of play in this tournament, winning some games with great technical ability - e.g. his game against Max Chew Lee and Kyle Gibson - and other games with great elegance and creativity - which was abundantly evident in his games against Karl Zelesco and Ari Dale. He has also shown great maturity in bouncing back from a relatively mediocre result in Adelaide and in handling the pressure of being the overwhelming favourite to win the tournament.

It would be great for posterity if someone, maybe Box Hill CC or James himself, could post his two games against Zelesco and Dale - his game with Karl features a great line clearing, temporary knight sacrifice on f2, while his game with Ari featured great ingenuity in disentangling his position and winning a position with Queen + 5 pawns versus Ari's Queen + Rook. Both games showed James' great fighting spirit.

Well done James!

Rincewind
15-07-2011, 04:46 PM
Well done James. I'd like to see those games too. (hint, hint) :)

ozman
15-07-2011, 07:54 PM
So, Who won the prizes

Paul Cavezza
16-07-2011, 01:05 AM
Congratulations to James, great player to watch- I hope he keeps it going for the rest of the year.

RE prizemoney, I'm not sure gymnastics is a comparable situation because I assume it's run purely by a state/national association and the entry fees go back in to development of gymnastics nation-wide. With the Vic Open it's outsourced to a club who then keep ??% of the profits to serve their own members who probably make up around 25%? of Victorian chess players.

If you compare it with the Australian Junior Chess Championship last year which (from my rough recollection) had 200ish players and gave out $5000 in prize money (which I don't think was considered high) and which still allegedly made a big profit, then you start to wonder. (Granted sponsorship opportunities are bigger)

"Kids don't expect it" and "If anyone else wants to run it they can" don't seem to be relevant to me. If you want to run by that logic, that "prizemoney isn't important to juniors" so we offer 50$ and nice trophies, then you make the entry fee for the tournament 20$. The way it is looks, at least on the surface, seems questionable.

86 players u/12 and below and another 40 playing in the u/14-18 equals

126 * 60 (entires $50-70) = 7560$ collected in entry fees and $1950 handed out in prizes plus trophies. I'd be interested to know who the arbiters were and what they were paid.

Garvinator
16-07-2011, 01:35 AM
126 * 60 (entires $50-70) = 7560$ collected in entry fees and $1950 handed out in prizes plus trophies. I'd be interested to know who the arbiters were and what they were paid.
You can add in:

Venue Hire
ACF fees, not much overall, but still an additional cost.

ER
16-07-2011, 11:37 AM
You can add in:

Venue Hire
ACF fees, not much overall, but still an additional cost.

It was approximately a year ago when the then CV treasurer took the following defiant stand:


There is not a snowball's chance in hell that I will sign a cheque for 15% of CV's net assets until the ACF communicates and commits with CV properly as the independent body which we are.

I am not saying that Mr Grenness's stand was right or wrong. Particularly that "independent body" part doesn't seem to be quite sound, nevertheless, it was definitely a Victorian stand! :clap:

Kevin Bonham
17-07-2011, 02:59 AM
I am not saying that Mr Grenness's stand was right or wrong.

I am saying it was a complete waste of everybody's time.

pablito - for the Aus Junior 2010 in Hobart we had about 120 entries and took $13300 in entry fees. We paid out about $8000 in prizes and another $3000 on trophies. We ended up very nearly breaking even on the tournament proper and thanks to associated fundraising we ended up banking thousands of dollars for the future development of Tasmanian junior chess. We had great sponsorship though, both in kind and in cash. Especially the big grant from Events Tasmania, which was made much bigger by all the parents and players who were willing to put aside a little of their time to fill out accommodation forms to help us out in increasing the size of it.

Paul Cavezza
17-07-2011, 03:03 PM
pablito - for the Aus Junior 2010 in Hobart we had about 120 entries and took $13300 in entry fees. We paid out about $8000 in prizes and another $3000 on trophies. We ended up very nearly breaking even on the tournament proper and thanks to associated fundraising we ended up banking thousands of dollars for the future development of Tasmanian junior chess. We had great sponsorship though, both in kind and in cash. Especially the big grant from Events Tasmania, which was made much bigger by all the parents and players who were willing to put aside a little of their time to fill out accommodation forms to help us out in increasing the size of it.

Thanks Kevin, interesting.

Kevin Bonham
17-07-2011, 06:57 PM
Posts moved

Entirely off-topic posts about CV's debt to ACF last year have been moved to the thread on that matter. As usual if you wish to discuss this move do so in the Help and Feedback section.