PDA

View Full Version : 2011 Doeberl Cup



Charles
01-12-2010, 03:15 PM
Hi all,

The 2011 Doeberl Cup is now taking entries www.doeberlcup.com.au. Last year we had a field of 250 players across the four tournaments. This year we hope to match or better that!

Prices for entry have remained unchanged, and our family rate continues with 3rd and subsequent members of families paying half price.

Ian Rogers is confirmed to provide his commentary for the five days of the tournament.

The Cup is later this year, coinciding with Anzac Day so for a special memory you may wish to attend the Dawn Service at our War Memorial and then wander down to Round 9! I have personally attended many of these across Australia and they are a moving ceremony in any location but the War Memorial makes it especially so.

Charles
13-12-2010, 09:47 AM
Just a quick update,

We have had early interest from Indian, Bulgarian, and Bangladeshi players. It will all depend on our conditions but we have had interest expressed by two 2600+GM's which is a good start.

Charles
16-12-2010, 06:37 AM
Hi all,

We have now offered conditions to four overseas players including two who have been here before GM Gagunashvili (2619) and GM Bojkov (2554). We have also offered conditions to GM Radulski (2606) and Petrov (2534) from Bulgaria.

We havent heard from any Indian players yet but that is the next step.

Adamski
16-12-2010, 06:47 AM
Cool, CB. It wd be great to see champion and recent New in Chess writer in Aus again. Dejan B that is. Good luck!

Charles
16-12-2010, 07:30 AM
Cool, CB. It wd be great to see champion and recent New in Chess writer in Aus again. Dejan B that is. Good luck!

I think we are a pretty good chance with him. We are just discussing billeting prior to the event and the chance of a simul on the previous weekend. He did a good article on us last year so that was good publicity.

ER
16-12-2010, 08:49 AM
I am going to give Doeberl a miss in 2011!
Too close to the SIO, and any way you look at it a week of rest and relaxation in Katoomba before the Parra Festival is more enticing than a week of playing chess in Canberra!
I think about it in 2012!
Good luck anyway!

Charles
21-12-2010, 04:35 PM
Hi all,

Merry Xmas break. We are excited to announce our first overseas GM with GM David Arutinian from Georgia (2578) agreeing to come and play in the Doeberl Cup Premier tournament!

Many of you will have received your first Doeberl Cup Newsletter today - for those that haven't, you can signup on the front page of the website.

Also the TShirt competition is open again this year so look forward to those entries. There was an error in the TShirt competition - the winner will receive entry to this years tournament not last years as incorrectly stated :D

lost
21-12-2010, 06:28 PM
I think we are a pretty good chance with him. We are just discussing billeting prior to the event and the chance of a simul on the previous weekend. He did a good article on us last year so that was good publicity.

I will just say this: You will see more of Dejan Bojkov here in Australia. Well done on the organisers in approaching him!

lost

Garrett
21-12-2010, 06:49 PM
I will just say this: You will see more of Dejan Bojkov here in Australia. Well done on the organisers in approaching him!

lost

Dejan Bojkov does some video's and chess mentor course for chess.com which I really enjoy.

Hope he comes back to Oz !

cheers Garrett.

Charles
22-12-2010, 09:02 AM
I will just say this: You will see more of Dejan Bojkov here in Australia. Well done on the organisers in approaching him!

lost


We hope so. One of the criteria for an organiser is how easy a player is to get on with and he is very easy to get on with. He also is very interested in Australia and all it can show him!

lost
24-12-2010, 06:47 PM
We hope so. One of the criteria for an organiser is how easy a player is to get on with and he is very easy to get on with. He also is very interested in Australia and all it can show him!

He is very easy to get along with and I have many a chat with him these days. I have to congratulate again the organisers on this.

lost

Charles
29-12-2010, 10:39 AM
Hi all,

Just a couple of updates.

We also have just received acceptance from Darryl Johansen that he will be playing in the Doeberl. We will also be offering conditions to Deep Sengupta, Andrey Deviatkin, Ahbijit Kunte and Suraya Ganguly.

We have not yet arranged accommodation deals for the 2011 Doeberl Cup - this will be organised by the end of January.

Unfortunately a regular of the last few years Gawain Jones will be in the Northern Hemisphere for the tournament this year.

A happy new year to all,

Charles

Witty
03-01-2011, 10:18 PM
GM Dariusz Swiercz (2540) told me the other day he would possibly come down under again to play in Doeberl and SIO if someone paid for his flight, as for his accomodation i can arrange that.

lost
04-01-2011, 06:49 PM
GM Dariusz Swiercz (2540) told me the other day he would possibly come down under again to play in Doeberl and SIO if someone paid for his flight, as for his accomodation i can arrange that.

Just would like to let the organisers and chess enthuasists know that GM Dejan Bojkov is a likely starter for Doeberl and for the Parramatta Chess Festival (SIO).

This is good news and well done by the organisers in getting strong GM's to Australia to play in the best events that we have to offer here.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

lost

Witty
04-01-2011, 08:16 PM
Also have interest from GM Oleksandr Sulypa (2500) once again it's all about paying for the flight/accomodation with him. If someone pays i am certain he will be here.

Garvinator
04-01-2011, 08:19 PM
Also have interest from GM Oleksandr Sulypa (2500) once again it's all about paying for the flight/accomodation with him. If someone pays i am certain he will be here.Almost everyone would be willing to play if someone else pays for the cost of the trip!!

Witty
04-01-2011, 08:32 PM
Almost everyone would be willing to play if someone else pays for the cost of the trip!!

Completely agree with you, but unfortunately sometimes that is the only way to get some GM's down.

I know they aren't 2700+ ranked GM's however it provides the players in oz an opportunity and a chance to get a GM/IM/FM norm.

Most 2700+ GM's would prefer to stay in europe because the tournaments are stronger, even if you did approach to pay for the flight.

Maybe i am wrong... just my 2 cents. Alternatively can't the sponsors of SIO and Doeberl split the flight costs if a high ranked GM agrees to come down if his flight is paid for.

mikesguns
04-01-2011, 09:01 PM
Completely agree with you, but unfortunately sometimes that is the only way to get some GM's down.

I know they aren't 2700+ ranked GM's however it provides the players in oz an opportunity and a chance to get a GM/IM/FM norm.

Most 2700+ GM's would prefer to stay in europe because the tournaments are stronger, even if you did approach to pay for the flight.

Maybe i am wrong... just my 2 cents. Alternatively can't the sponsors of SIO and Doeberl split the flight costs if a high ranked GM agrees to come down if his flight is paid for.
It would be good if some in between GM's 2600+ came

Witty
08-01-2011, 04:04 PM
It would be good if some in between GM's 2600+ came

Yeah that would be nice :) who knows maybe the organisers/sponsors will arrange something

MichaelBaron
09-01-2011, 10:38 AM
Almost everyone would be willing to play if someone else pays for the cost of the trip!!
:clap: How true!

Charles
19-01-2011, 07:19 PM
Yeah that would be nice :) who knows maybe the organisers/sponsors will arrange something

And maybe someone else will offer to help as well. It is all a function of money. If you can provide me a sponsor for $1000 in cash I will get a 2600+ player. We have done a good job of attracting a couple of 2600 plus players in the last 3 years we have been running it. The reality is for the budget and conditions we can offer we will get 2500+ GM's. However when you look at the benefit to Australian Chess we attracted 10GM's last year, got 3 IM norms and a GM norm which is not bad.

I can be contacted direct through ceb@o2c.com.au for people who can help with sponsorship money.

lost
26-01-2011, 02:31 AM
Hi everyone,

Just wanting to know is anyone able to give me a lift to SIO after the Doeberl Cup at all?

If you could send me a private message on here that would be great.

lost

Trent Parker
26-01-2011, 02:49 AM
I'm sure there would be plenty of players driving back from doeberl...... leave it with me.... where you staying?


btw this place is being a bit slow...... I deleted some multiples of your post! :)

lost
26-01-2011, 03:20 AM
I'm sure there would be plenty of players driving back from doeberl...... leave it with me.... where you staying?


btw this place is being a bit slow...... I deleted some multiples of your post! :)

Trent,

Thanks for doing that. I am hoping to get some billet accommodation in Canberra, but will let you know straight away.

Have you found anyone for billet accommodation for SIO tournament at all?

lost

Charles
09-02-2011, 09:11 PM
Hi all,

Well entries are progressing slower this year - probably due to the late April location of the Cup. However good news is we secured our third overseas GM with GM Bojkov agreeing to return this year.

The premier is shaping up as a competitive event and we hope to add some new ACT titled players to the mix!

Newsletter will be out shortly to update everyone on where we are up to.

Accommodation deal has been secured with the Quality Inn http://www.doeberlcup.com.au/accommodation.shtml and we are just waiting on the Statesman Hotel to arrange a deal.

Charles
14-02-2011, 07:47 AM
Hi all,

Just a quick update. Thanks for all the T-Shirt ideas - keep them rolling in - remember only one per person - so send your best shot! And of course if you win and have paid your entry fee you will be refunded.

We have 50 entries which is good for this stage as we are still about nine weeks from the start. Especially the premier - we have 5 GM's, 4 IM's, 1 WIM, 3 FM's and 1 WFM. We also have 7 overseas players out of the 22 registered in the Premier. The Major and Minor are also coming along nicely.

Accommodation options are now up and the second newsletter went out last night.

Look forward to seeing you there.

Adamski
14-02-2011, 06:48 PM
Hi all,

Well entries are progressing slower this year - probably due to the late April location of the Cup. However good news is we secured our third overseas GM with GM Bojkov agreeing to return this year.

The premier is shaping up as a competitive event and we hope to add some new ACT titled players to the mix!

Newsletter will be out shortly to update everyone on where we are up to.

Accommodation deal has been secured with the Quality Inn http://www.doeberlcup.com.au/accommodation.shtml and we are just waiting on the Statesman Hotel to arrange a deal.
Well one Charles - great to see Dejan coming back after his last successful trip to Oz.

Trent Parker
20-02-2011, 03:13 PM
I was looking forward to the 2011 Doeberl cup but due to the inflation in my rating I will not be playing .......

and I believe that Lou Damaschino (who I think has already registered) may take that stance as well if he finds that his rating has inflated over the 1600 mark

Basil
20-02-2011, 03:52 PM
and I believe that Lou Damaschino (who I think has already registered) will take that stance as well if he finds that his rating has inflated over the 1600 mark

Hang on! Who is breaking up with whom? Let's be clear - nobody will be taking any stance (in respect of deciding not to play). Indeed they are ineligible to play and no decision from any player is necessary.

Carry on!

Trent Parker
20-02-2011, 03:54 PM
Note Captain Underpants I did not specify Major, minor or Premier.

Kevin Bonham
20-02-2011, 04:02 PM
The following is on the Doeberl website:


Should an eligible player register and pay for a tournament and then become ineligible due to a decline in their rating they will retain their position within that tournament. In the situation where a rise in rating makes a player ineligible for the tournament they have registered and paid for they will be moved into the next highest tournament they are eligible for. Players in this situation will be offered a refund of entry fees as an alternative to playing in the higher tournament.

Lou Damaschino has indeed already registered so he is at least covered by the above if he goes over 1600.

Basil
20-02-2011, 04:08 PM
Note Captain Underpants I did not specify Major, minor or Premier.
Raspberry sound. No way are we talking about withholding upstream playing. The whole idea of the whinge objection is that of being removed from the top of a pool.

Charles
20-02-2011, 08:37 PM
Hi all,

I have just been notified of this potential shift in ACF ratings. We have looked at it and I can confirm that we will be maintaining the ratings cut-offs for our tournaments this year.

I recognise this means we may lose some players (Trent sorry to hear you wont be coming - still love to have you if you change your mind!) but there is not much we can do about it.

While it is only one factor at least the price is the same for the Minor and Major tournaments!

As has been highlighted we had put rulings in around this two years ago (for different reasons) and they are on the website and cover this contingency.

Having reviewed the entries at the moment, with the magnitude of change that I have been informed is likely to occur to players ratings I think we only have one player potentially affected.

Denis_Jessop
20-02-2011, 08:54 PM
I agree.

Moreover there is the other side of the coin, of which one often hears rumours, namely, a player deliberately playing at such a standard as to keep his rating under, say 1600, so as to qualify for such an event. I'd hope that that rarely happens.

Likewise, I'd hope that no players pass the DC or any other event because they would have to play in a higher division. After all, to refuse to play in these circumstances seems to be an assumption that one's rating will never get better (the pessimistic approach) or at least higher than the cut-off. Otherwise it's admission that, if it did, the player would then cease to enter any tournaments after topping, say 1600, which could happen, ratings uplift or no.

DJ

Charles
23-02-2011, 01:29 PM
Hi all,

We are excited to announce we will be running an additional set of games in the empty Apollo room next to the Doeberl Cup this year. Following on in our role from the Australian Games Expo (www.ozge.com.au) We will be running a Settlers of Catan, Stone Age, Carcassone and Dominion tournament over the Friday and Saturday.

We will also have our Games Library open with over 100 Euro style family games available to play. You never know, other family members might like to attend to play these games!

More in the next Doeberl newsletter.

Also a reminder that the T Shirt competition entry deadline is Monday. Check out the entries so far on the front page.

Rincewind
23-02-2011, 01:31 PM
We are excited to announce we will be running an additional set of games in the empty Apollo room next to the Doeberl Cup this year. Following on in our role from the Australian Games Expo (www.ozge.com.au) We will be running a Settlers of Catan, Stone Age, Carcassone and Dominion tournament over the Friday and Saturday.

This sounds like a great initiative.

Charles
27-02-2011, 02:21 PM
Hi all,

Just a reminder that tomorrow is your last day to secure your position in a higher tournament if you think the rating gods are going to be unkind (i.e. big rating drop coming).

The details are all on the website but the gist of it is that if you register and pay before 1 March you secure your position in the higher tournament regardless of rating drop that may occur.

Charles
03-03-2011, 04:52 PM
Hi all,

Well this years T-Shirt competition has been run and judged! Congratulations to David Adler who provided "Its been a hard days knight". He will receive free entry to the tournament (i.e. refund as he has already entered and paid) and a Shirt.

As next years tournament is the 50th year we see it as a special year. We will run a T-Shirt competition in the normal way in 2012 but we have already chosen a slogan from this years entrants that we think will be included under the logo on the front of the shirt. This slogan was provided by Mustafa Erkan 'ACT - Australian Chess Territory! Since 1963". He will receive free entry to next years Doeberl Cup and a free T Shirt (although he may have to remind me as it is along way away!)

Igor_Goldenberg
04-03-2011, 01:00 PM
Doeberl is one of the best and strongest tournament in the year. Unfortunately I can't play this year, but would like to wish luck and success to organisers and participants.

Charles
08-03-2011, 06:44 PM
Hi all,

Just a quick update. We are about 14 entrants ahead of last year at this stage and hoping to find a couple more GM's.

David Cordover has also offered the use of the Tornelo product for the Doeberl Cup. We have agreed to run it in parallel with the normal pairing system so that Australian Chess Players can see it in operation and compare it with what we normally do.

Charles
10-03-2011, 05:50 PM
Hi all,

We just confirmed our first 2600+GM coming over with his WIM girlfriend. We currently have six GM's and 5 IM's so it is looking healthy so far. We also have players from 14 overseas federation so hopefully we can meet the 20 target for the Premier.

The Premier has only half its slots left so if you intend playing in it please register soon.

Tony Dowden
10-03-2011, 07:28 PM
Hi all,

Well this years T-Shirt competition has been run and judged! Congratulations to David Adler who provided "Its been a hard days knight". He will receive free entry to the tournament (i.e. refund as he has already entered and paid) and a Shirt.

As next years tournament is the 50th year we see it as a special year. We will run a T-Shirt competition in the normal way in 2012 but we have already chosen a slogan from this years entrants that we think will be included under the logo on the front of the shirt. This slogan was provided by Mustafa Erkan 'ACT - Australian Chess Territory! Since 1963". He will receive free entry to next years Doeberl Cup and a free T Shirt (although he may have to remind me as it is along way away!)

Congrats David and Mustafa :clap: :clap:

Vlad
10-03-2011, 10:42 PM
Hi Charles,

One of the recent sort of scandals in the Russian chess was that the GM application of Kosintseva Nadezhda, who is currently #5 in the world, was rejected by FIDE. The reason why it was rejected was because one of her opponents at the time of some tournament was a conditional GM rather than an actual GM. As a result in this tournament she only had 2 GM opponents rather than 3 and that tournament was not counted as a GM norm.

Now why is it relevant for the Doerbel Cup? I would think until Andrew Brown's title is officially confirmed he is not an IM. If the confirmation happens after the first day of Doerbel then his opponents can't count games against Andrew as games against an IM. That means posting Andrew as an IM on the official website is at least misleading and can be very painful to somebody if that somebody happens to score an IM norm conditional on Andrew being an IM.

Rincewind
10-03-2011, 10:45 PM
Congrats David and Mustafa :clap: :clap:
Yeah, onya Muzzy!

antichrist
10-03-2011, 11:32 PM
The Filipino GMs don't venture this far over?

Charles
11-03-2011, 06:15 AM
Hi Charles,

One of the recent sort of scandals in the Russian chess was that the GM application of Kosintseva Nadezhda, who is currently #5 in the world, was rejected by FIDE. The reason why it was rejected was because one of her opponents at the time of some tournament was a conditional GM rather than an actual GM. As a result in this tournament she only had 2 GM opponents rather than 3 and that tournament was not counted as a GM norm.

Now why is it relevant for the Doerbel Cup? I would think until Andrew Brown's title is officially confirmed he is not an IM. If the confirmation happens after the first day of Doerbel then his opponents can't count games against Andrew as games against an IM. That means posting Andrew as an IM on the official website is at least misleading and can be very painful to somebody if that somebody happens to score an IM norm conditional on Andrew being an IM.

Hi Vlad,

Thanks and noted. I will check with Shaun what he wants to do. I had been informed because of the nature of these titles - being earned at a Zonal (Andrew, Ly, Emma) that they will likely be ratified before the tournament but I will check.

Similar to your situation (if you are playing this year) we will be offering Emma and Andrew free entry even if FIDE dont ratify the title in time as this is something we as a tournament can do to recognise their achievements even if they dont have the title for this years tournament.

I will check it out and make any changes that are appropriate.

Charles
11-03-2011, 03:26 PM
Hi all,

Reviewed the previous issue with Shaun. The next presidential congress is June so they wont be ratified. Therefore we will remove pending titles from Doeberl Website.

We will still offer free entry to players who have provisionally met the requirement for GM/WIM/WGM/IM but are just waiting for FIDE ratification.

Charles
16-03-2011, 06:40 PM
Hi all,

Just a quick note that the TShirt design will be out with the latest newsletter later this week. We will have about a two week turnaround time for orders.

Also a note that the premier has reached just over half full with 49 players.

Charles
17-03-2011, 05:31 PM
Hi all,

The T-Shirt design is complete and orders are available from the website. Orders must be received and paid for by the 4th of April. As per previous years pre-order is the only way shirts can be organised.

Paul Cavezza
17-03-2011, 05:43 PM
haa! I like Jean Watson's "Halfway to chessboxing world champ" and Illingworth's too:) Nice entries

Charles
19-03-2011, 06:33 AM
Hi all,

I have had a couple of queries on the use of Tornelo at the the 2011 Doeberl Cup. I just thought I would clarify our position on it.

We will continue to use the Swiss Perfect and Swiss Manager programs for pairings run by Shaun, Charles, and this year Scott Colliver. Results will be uploaded to Chess-results.com and we will upload the html outputs as we have always done. We also run our own registration and payment system (through St George Bank).

However I think new things should be tried and we should always strive for improvement at the Doeberl. Tornelo promises many interesting improvements in visibility etc. So we have agreed that David can run it in parallel with the traditional system so that people can see online how it operates for a larger tournament with four divisions etc. It will also provide David with a very valuable live testing environment so he can see how the system responds in comparison to traditional solutions in a range of areas.

I have discussed the use of smartphones for uploading games and I think there is potential there. However at this stage, there are two main issues for us:
1. There is no way to ensure the safety of peoples equipment they leave on the table.
2. It opens up the possibility of the accusation of cheating through a player using a chess application on their phone - either when a player is actually cheating or when their opponent thinks they see something - even if they are wrong. We recognise that FIDE allow an arbiter to allow the use of communication devices in the hall but we will be going with traditional DGT boards and hand written score sheets for 2011.

ER
19-03-2011, 10:46 AM
... there are two main issues for us:
1. There is no way to ensure the safety of peoples equipment they leave on the table.
2. It opens up the possibility of the accusation of cheating through a player using a chess application on their phone - (...)

We recognise that FIDE allow an arbiter to allow the use of communication devices in the hall but we will be going with traditional DGT boards and hand written score sheets for 2011.

What about Monroi? Amir (always ahead of his time in innovative ideas) used it in your tournament a couple years ago.
Indian GMs were watching his epic battle vs Alana and when asked their opinion about the device they told me that this is the future of chess and technology cannot be stopped.
I believe the usage of devices is up to the arbiters and DOPs to decide always in accordance with the accepted existing international and national rules.
Any attempt of organisers or sponsors to impose matters is against the spirit of the sport and as such unacceptable!

Charles
19-03-2011, 02:21 PM
What about Monroi? Amir (always ahead of his time in innovative ideas) used it in your tournament a couple years ago.
Indian GMs were watching his epic battle vs Alana and when asked their opinion about the device they told me that this is the future of chess and technology cannot be stopped.
I believe the usage of devices is up to the arbiters and DOPs to decide always in accordance with the accepted existing international and national rules.
Any attempt of organisers or sponsors to impose matters is against the spirit of the sport and as such unacceptable!


Thanks for the post but I'm a bit confused. We dont own or have access to Monroi. The only ones of those that I know of are owned by Amir. What are we attempting that is unacceptable? We have always used DGT boards and paper recording and it has worked with no complaints in the past.

Oepty
19-03-2011, 02:45 PM
Thanks for the post but I'm a bit confused. We dont own or have access to Monroi. The only ones of those that I know of are owned by Amir. What are we attempting that is unacceptable? We have always used DGT boards and paper recording and it has worked with no complaints in the past.

Charles, I think Jak, and sorry if I am wrong Jak, is saying is the decision about using mobile phones in the venue should be made by the arbiters, not you as the organiser. You making the decision is interferring into the arbiters job and that is unacceptable.
Scott

Keong Ang
19-03-2011, 07:48 PM
Charles, I think Jak, and sorry if I am wrong Jak, is saying is the decision about using mobile phones in the venue should be made by the arbiters, not you as the organiser. You making the decision is interferring into the arbiters job and that is unacceptable.
Scott

Why is this suddenly an issue?
All arbiters would have known that there is no "arbiters discretion" regarding mobile phones when they took on the job for this event.
Doeberl rules as published on the website states it very clearly. I haven't found anything in FIDE rules that will allow an arbiter to overturn it.


Mobile Phone Usage

We will be enforcing a strict No Mobile Phone usage during the event policy.

All mobile phones and other communication devices are to be switched off in the tournament hall. This includes PDAs, MP3 players and any other devices that can receive external transmissions.

A breach of this rule will result in the automatic loss of the game in the case of a player (if a game is in progress), or the exclusion from the tournament hall until the start of the next round (in the case of player who has finished their game), or for the rest of the day (in the case of a spectator).

Does not seem to have any wiggle room. Quite airtight really...

Paragraph 1 clearly shows what has been imposed by the organisers.
Paragraph 2 requires all communication devices to be switched off. Last sentence even requires TVs and radios to be switched off!
Paragraph 3 shows how serious the organisers are. The only people not covered by the rule are the arbiters (everyone in the laws of chess are either players, spectators or arbiters), and since sanctions apply to players and spectators only, arbiters (I hopefully assume) are excluded from this rule.

The organisers have effectively closed the possibility of granting anyone permission to use communication devices. Even the organisers have this prohibition applied on themselves, unless they become arbiters.

Unless this rule is amended, nobody will be recording moves on mobile phones or any communication device. That has already been prohibited.

Brian_Jones
20-03-2011, 07:50 AM
Any attempt of organisers or sponsors to impose matters is against the spirit of the sport and as such unacceptable!

Bollocks (have I spelt this correctly?) ;)

antichrist
20-03-2011, 08:02 AM
Scott was having an off-colour day yesterday, don't take him too seriously.

Denis_Jessop
20-03-2011, 04:28 PM
Bollocks (have I spelt this correctly?) ;)

Yes. Also "cobblers" or "codswallop" for a 10 :D

DJ

Igor_Goldenberg
22-03-2011, 02:03 PM
Why is this suddenly an issue?
All arbiters would have known that there is no "arbiters discretion" regarding mobile phones when they took on the job for this event.
Doeberl rules as published on the website states it very clearly. I haven't found anything in FIDE rules that will allow an arbiter to overturn it.



Does not seem to have any wiggle room. Quite airtight really...

Paragraph 1 clearly shows what has been imposed by the organisers.
Paragraph 2 requires all communication devices to be switched off. Last sentence even requires TVs and radios to be switched off!
Paragraph 3 shows how serious the organisers are. The only people not covered by the rule are the arbiters (everyone in the laws of chess are either players, spectators or arbiters), and since sanctions apply to players and spectators only, arbiters (I hopefully assume) are excluded from this rule.

The organisers have effectively closed the possibility of granting anyone permission to use communication devices. Even the organisers have this prohibition applied on themselves, unless they become arbiters.

Unless this rule is amended, nobody will be recording moves on mobile phones or any communication device. That has already been prohibited.
Smartphones have other functions apart from mobile phone. If the phone is turned off, arbiters/organisers can have a discretion in terms of the usage.
But I agree it would be against the spirit of the game and might cause too many problems. It's wise not to allow them (or any other electronic equipment) at all.

ER
22-03-2011, 02:25 PM
Bollocks (have I spelt this correctly?) ;)

depends which kind you 're talking about ie hairy etc! :owned:

Erik
22-03-2011, 02:27 PM
Paper scoresheets work for me - if it ain't broken, don't fix it!
I predict that using mobile phones for recording moves will be the chess equivalent of myki (the new ticketing system on Melbourne's PT) - less efficient, harder to use, producing obvious negative side-effects ... Unfortunately we're stuck with myki because no politician will ever scrap it, but I suspect recording moves on phones will quickly go the way of the zero-tolerance forfeit after one second :)

Charles
23-03-2011, 05:01 AM
Just a quick update on the shirts. We now have the option of black shirts with white writing. Shirt orders close on 4 April.

ER
25-03-2011, 01:15 PM
In FIDE's webpage announcing Doeberl 2011
http://www.fide.com/component/content/article/4-tournaments/5132-doeberl-cup-2011.html
there isn't any reference to Tornelo!
I am not sure if there is any reference to (ed.) Tornelo in Doeberl's official site either.
Apologies if I missed a few responses (apart from Brian's bollocks :P :lol: ) to my 19/3/11 posting, but I was away enjoying myself in country Victoria!

Leonkempen
25-03-2011, 03:18 PM
website is mentioned in first paragraph

ER
25-03-2011, 03:30 PM
website is mentioned in first paragraph

Oh apologies, I meant "I am not sure if there is any reference to Tornelo in Doeberl's official site either. I am correcting it now!

Charles
26-03-2011, 08:20 AM
Oh apologies, I meant "I am not sure if there is any reference to Tornelo in Doeberl's official site either. I am correcting it now!


Thanks for your post. The reason it isnt on our website or on FIDE is we aren't using Tornelo for the tournament. As per post 51 we support innovation and are allowing David to demonstrate it at the Doeberl, thereby giving him a live environment to demonstrate it to the Australian Chess community.

For running the Doeberl we are using the same FIDE approved methods we always have so I dont think it is relevant to put Tornelo on the FIDE site as it is not involved in running the tournament.

Secondly it is a not a key attraction of the Doeberl and will not be involved in running the tournament in any way so I dont think there is a need for reference on our website of it.

I am providing David with an opportunity to demonstrate and test a product that he is passionate about. I would do the same for any other chess person out there.

Oepty
26-03-2011, 09:23 AM
Why is this suddenly an issue?
All arbiters would have known that there is no "arbiters discretion" regarding mobile phones when they took on the job for this event.
Doeberl rules as published on the website states it very clearly. I haven't found anything in FIDE rules that will allow an arbiter to overturn it.



Does not seem to have any wiggle room. Quite airtight really...

Paragraph 1 clearly shows what has been imposed by the organisers.
Paragraph 2 requires all communication devices to be switched off. Last sentence even requires TVs and radios to be switched off!
Paragraph 3 shows how serious the organisers are. The only people not covered by the rule are the arbiters (everyone in the laws of chess are either players, spectators or arbiters), and since sanctions apply to players and spectators only, arbiters (I hopefully assume) are excluded from this rule.

The organisers have effectively closed the possibility of granting anyone permission to use communication devices. Even the organisers have this prohibition applied on themselves, unless they become arbiters.

Unless this rule is amended, nobody will be recording moves on mobile phones or any communication device. That has already been prohibited.

Keong to clarify my post I was just rephrasing Jak's post. It in no way was my point of view. In my opinion live games coverage is an issue for organisers to decide and arrange not arbiters and Charles has done nothing wrong.
Scott

ER
26-03-2011, 12:48 PM
Thanks for your post. The reason it isnt on our website or on FIDE is we aren't using Tornelo for the tournament. As per post 51 we support innovation and are allowing David to demonstrate it at the Doeberl, thereby giving him a live environment to demonstrate it to the Australian Chess community.

For running the Doeberl we are using the same FIDE approved methods we always have so I dont think it is relevant to put Tornelo on the FIDE site as it is not involved in running the tournament.

Secondly it is a not a key attraction of the Doeberl and will not be involved in running the tournament in any way so I dont think there is a need for reference on our website of it.

I am providing David with an opportunity to demonstrate and test a product that he is passionate about. I would do the same for any other chess person out there.

Thanks Charles, all clear now! :) Good luck!

Charles
30-03-2011, 07:30 AM
Hi all,

Just a quick update, we just passed 140 players with four weeks to go - this is up a couple on last year.

The Premier has 59 players with 6 GM's and 4 IM's. We also have 7 FM's, 3 WIM's and a WFM playing (I think Shannon Oliver may also be playing this year).

I think the standout tournament for me is the Major with 40 players so far. This provides I think one of the most competitive tournaments of its type in Australia.

Remember if you want a Shirt head to the website at http://www.doeberlcup.com.au/promotionalshirts.html - you have until next Monday as we need to get printing on them. We only do preorders.

Charles
31-03-2011, 02:49 PM
Hi all,

The Quality Inn is about 80% full and they are releasing remaining rooms to the public. If you intend staying at the hotel you can still quote the booking number code GF 1495 to receive the special price ( if there are rooms free). You need to speak with Ruchira, Beth or Polly to receive the special price.

Also T Shirt and Polo Top orders close on Monday evening.

mikesguns
31-03-2011, 07:22 PM
Last years Minor winner has now entered the major hopefully I can have back to back wins in different sections

Raelene Z
31-03-2011, 09:43 PM
All the best with that Mike. I think Colin Savige and Thomas Feng will cause "Major" damage. I'll watch with interest.

Charles
31-03-2011, 09:45 PM
Last years Minor winner has now entered the major hopefully I can have back to back wins in different sections


That would be an achievement! Participant 150 was Lawrence Matheson in the Premier.

Charles
03-04-2011, 08:08 PM
Hi all,

T Shirt orders close tomorrow, 4th April. Payment is required with the order. Orders can be made at http://www.doeberlcup.com.au/promotionalshirts.html.

peter_parr
04-04-2011, 12:16 PM
A report on the upcoming 2011 Doeberl Cup appears in the Sydney Morning Herald 4th April 2011.

SMH (http://www.chessdiscountsales.com/news/newsindex.htm)

Charles
06-04-2011, 02:34 PM
Hi all,

All four Grand Masters from overseas have confirmed they are on their way. Looking forward to seeing you all in a few short weeks!

Muzzy
09-04-2011, 05:21 PM
Thanks Charles.

I'll try my best to remind you but I don't see myself being anywhere else on the 50th year of Doeberl so shouldn't be a problem :)

I didn't even know I had won something until Shane Burgess told me at the Parramatta chess club the other night.

Looking forward to the tourney in just over a week.

Cheers.




Hi all,

Well this years T-Shirt competition has been run and judged! Congratulations to David Adler who provided "Its been a hard days knight". He will receive free entry to the tournament (i.e. refund as he has already entered and paid) and a Shirt.

As next years tournament is the 50th year we see it as a special year. We will run a T-Shirt competition in the normal way in 2012 but we have already chosen a slogan from this years entrants that we think will be included under the logo on the front of the shirt. This slogan was provided by Mustafa Erkan 'ACT - Australian Chess Territory! Since 1963". He will receive free entry to next years Doeberl Cup and a free T Shirt (although he may have to remind me as it is along way away!)

Charles
13-04-2011, 07:14 AM
Hi all,

Well what a week - played dubbo, drove a bus load of players back to Canberra on Sunday, flew to sydney on monday, then to Wagga on Tuesday, drive to Canberra today and then go into the mountains with Outward Bound for a week. Arriving back the day before the Doeberl.= :D

We are a week out with 182 players registered. If you are playing the Doeberl and have not registered and paid yet please register at the website.

For those who have registered but not paid yet can you please complete payment at http://www.doeberlcup.com.au/payment.shtml.

Players who have paid their entry fees for the Premier, Major and Minor will be paired the day before their round begins with pairings published on the website the night before the round begins on the website. If you have not paid, you will still be able to play but you will be manually paired on the day or given a bye for the first round.

lost
17-04-2011, 11:05 PM
Hi all,

Well what a week - played dubbo, drove a bus load of players back to Canberra on Sunday, flew to sydney on monday, then to Wagga on Tuesday, drive to Canberra today and then go into the mountains with Outward Bound for a week. Arriving back the day before the Doeberl.= :D

We are a week out with 182 players registered. If you are playing the Doeberl and have not registered and paid yet please register at the website.

For those who have registered but not paid yet can you please complete payment at http://www.doeberlcup.com.au/payment.shtml.

Players who have paid their entry fees for the Premier, Major and Minor will be paired the day before their round begins with pairings published on the website the night before the round begins on the website. If you have not paid, you will still be able to play but you will be manually paired on the day or given a bye for the first round.

Charles,

When is the cut-off date for entries for the Doeberl Cup and if I decide to play, can I pay on arrival of the venue?

lost

HydeParkPrince
18-04-2011, 01:58 AM
This is sooo last minute that's it's not even funny but does anyone want to share accomodation with me? If not can anyone recommend a relatively cheap hostel for a traveller to stay? my budget is around 200-250 bucks.Sigh...:hmm:
Also i think the closing entry date is wednesday and i'mplanning to doa money order on monday...

Skulte
18-04-2011, 12:17 PM
This is sooo last minute that's it's not even funny but does anyone want to share accomodation with me? If not can anyone recommend a relatively cheap hostel for a traveller to stay? my budget is around 200-250 bucks.Sigh...:hmm:
Also i think the closing entry date is wednesday and i'mplanning to doa money order on monday...

Send me a PM with your mobile #.

mikesguns
18-04-2011, 01:44 PM
my mobile is [removed at poster's request - mod], but what's a pm?

A PM is a private message where only the person you message can see what you have written, now everyone can see your mobile. Click on the top right of your screen to send one.

HydeParkPrince
18-04-2011, 03:21 PM
Thanks, for the heads up. Could you also delete that quote? [mobile # removed - mod]

Charles
20-04-2011, 06:09 PM
Hi all,

Well GM's are inbound and later tonight the first round draw will be up for the Premier. Major and Minor draws will be up tomorrow night.

We intend trying to broadcast the top boards for the Premier (4), Major (1) and Minor (1). Premier games should be up by 1330 tomorrow.

Thanks,

Charles

Garrett
20-04-2011, 06:31 PM
Hi Charles

Just wondering where Eliseo Tumbaga's rating of 1997 comes from ?

He played in Toowoomba on the weekend and did well, drawing with Solo, but I didn't know he had a rating.

cheers Garrett.

Charles
20-04-2011, 06:51 PM
Hi Charles

Just wondering where Eliseo Tumbaga's rating of 1997 comes from ?

He played in Toowoomba on the weekend and did well, drawing with Solo, but I didn't know he had a rating.

cheers Garrett.

Hi,

He has an old published rating (20 year old) with US Chess Federation. Because of our rating limits etc we could either accept this rating or we could tell him to play as unrated in the Minor. We took the decision to use the published rating he had. We have done this also with a few Australian players recently who had very old ratings and tried to convince us that they should be allowed to play in lower Doeberl tournaments as they hadnt played for a long time. Ultimately if they have a published rating we on balance have to work with that even if it is older.

I know he had a draw with Solo in the last round but the rest of his results seemed to be in line with a rating of 1800-2000. I am interested however that the tournament used a published rating of 1700 for him - if someone could advise me of whether this was a a newer published rating we would use that.

Thanks,

Charles

Garrett
20-04-2011, 06:54 PM
Hi,

He has an old published rating (20 year old) with US Chess Federation. Because of our rating limits etc we could either accept this rating or we could tell him to play as unrated in the Minor. We took the decision to use the published rating he had. We have done this also with a few Australian players recently who had very old ratings and tried to convince us that they should be allowed to play in lower Doeberl tournaments as they hadnt played for a long time. Ultimately if they have a published rating we on balance have to work with that even if it is older.

I know he had a draw with Solo in the last round but the rest of his results seemed to be in line with a rating of 1800-2000. I am interested however that the tournament used a published rating of 1700 for him - if someone could advise me of whether this was a a newer published rating we would use that.

Thanks,

Charles

Good work tracking down the rating Charles, that rating certainly seems reasonable.

I think the 1700 was an estimate but if the Garvinator is reading this he could confirm.

cheers Garrett.

Ian Rout
20-04-2011, 10:23 PM
Seeing it hasn't been mentioned yet, just pointing out that the draw is up:

http://www.doeberlcup.com.au/results.shtml

Garvinator
20-04-2011, 10:33 PM
I was aware before the tournament that Eliseo's USCF rating was 1990 or so from many years ago. My experience is that USCF ratings are way higher for that rating range compared to ACF ratings, so I gave him a rating of 1700 to seed him in the tournament.

His TPR from DDO was roughly 1750. His results do not indicate he is anywhere near 2000 ACF strength.

ER
20-04-2011, 10:48 PM
Seeing it hasn't been mentioned yet, just pointing out that the draw is up:

http://www.doeberlcup.com.au/results.shtml

How come all these players are unpaired?



33 5 GM Smerdon David 0 0 -
34 21 WIM Caoili Arianne 0 0 -
35 33 Tan Justin 0 0 -
36 36 Zvedeniouk Ilia 0 0 -
37 51 Flitney Adrian 0 0 -
38 64 CM Goundar Sanmogam 0 0 -
39 71 Ng Clive 0 0 -

Kevin Bonham
20-04-2011, 10:53 PM
How come all these players are unpaired?

Perhaps they are all exercising the 1/2 point bye for rounds 1 and 2 option.

ER
21-04-2011, 05:23 AM
Perhaps they are all exercising the 1/2 point bye for rounds 1 and 2 option.

Yep, maybe they all have good reasons for taking the first two rounds. Because if they haven't and the use the two half points as part of their strategy it defeats the purpose and it's unfair for other players who fight hard to earn their (half) points!

Libby2
21-04-2011, 07:34 AM
Yep, maybe they all have good reasons for taking the first two rounds. Because if they haven't and the use the two half points as part of their strategy it defeats the purpose and it's unfair for other players who fight hard to earn their (half) points!

I suspect there are a few players out there for whom being available to play on the Thursday (today) is a bit tricky for work, travel, study or other reasons. Maybe there are players out there taking strategic byes but I think they'd "out" and discredit themselves if they were doing it obviously and repeatedly.

I've seen players receive a perceived advantage from a half point bye, and even more often be advantaged when they have received the completely fair and transparent full point bye to finish in the prizes and ahead of players who played too well to be allocated a bye in the draw. It's one of the many swings & roundabouts of a swiss. But I can't say I've seen obvious strategic use of a bye. Short of beginning to chunder part way through the event, organisers usually require advance notice of the need for byes and it's hard for even the most confident player to know who and when they may gain an advantage from having one.

Jason Hu
21-04-2011, 08:01 AM
Hey Charles,

I missed the 7:00am bus to Canberra. But I will still get to there before 1pm. Please start my clock if i'm not already there (unless there is a 0min forfeit rule).

My number is 0435 574 874. Please send me a text with your contact details, so I can give you a call when I get to Canberra. The bus gets there at 12:30 and I'll catch a bus to Woden.

Also, Clive is with me and he also missed the bus. He wishes to play the first round if possible.

Also, if ANYONE is around civic at 12:30pm and can offer us a lift to the venue. Please give me a call. (I may not have reception on the way). Thank you!

Garvinator
21-04-2011, 09:48 AM
I suspect there are a few players out there for whom being available to play on the Thursday (today) is a bit tricky for work, travel, study or other reasons. Maybe there are players out there taking strategic byes but I think they'd "out" and discredit themselves if they were doing it obviously and repeatedly.I am supremely surprised that the Premier is not being run from Friday to Tuesday.

mikesguns
21-04-2011, 09:58 AM
I am supremely surprised that the Premier is not being run from Friday to Tuesday.
I think maybe the reason is in past years, Tuesday was not a public holiday like this year, and maybe they did not want to change the schedule.

Garrett
21-04-2011, 10:20 AM
I am supremely surprised that the Premier is not being run from Friday to Tuesday.

Tuesday is a rest/travel day for those playing in Sydney.

The schedule is tough enough as it is with 18 games in 11 days. 18 in 10 at that time control with a 300k trip as well is much worse.

cheers Garrett.

Ian Rout
21-04-2011, 10:21 AM
I think maybe the reason is in past years, Tuesday was not a public holiday like this year, and maybe they did not want to change the schedule.
It would hardly be worth causing so much confusion considering it could only be done twice more this century (the second in 2095) - not to mention pushing the last day of the SIO back to Monday.

ER
21-04-2011, 02:07 PM
I suspect there are a few players out there for whom being available to play on the Thursday (today) is a bit tricky for work, travel, study or other reasons. Maybe there are players out there taking strategic byes but I think they'd "out" and discredit themselves if they were doing it obviously and repeatedly.

I've seen players receive a perceived advantage from a half point bye, and even more often be advantaged when they have received the completely fair and transparent full point bye to finish in the prizes and ahead of players who played too well to be allocated a bye in the draw. It's one of the many swings & roundabouts of a swiss. But I can't say I've seen obvious strategic use of a bye. Short of beginning to chunder part way through the event, organisers usually require advance notice of the need for byes and it's hard for even the most confident player to know who and when they may gain an advantage from having one.

Thanks Libby2, fair enough! :)

Adamski
21-04-2011, 02:18 PM
Tuesday is a rest/travel day for those playing in Sydney.

The schedule is tough enough as it is with 18 games in 11 days. 18 in 10 at that time control with a 300k trip as well is much worse.

cheers Garrett.
Completely agree, Garrett. Good luck over the board mate! See you at Parra!

Watto
21-04-2011, 02:23 PM
http://www.doeberlcup.com.au/livegames.shtml

ER
21-04-2011, 02:28 PM
Tuesday is a rest/travel day for those playing in Sydney.

The schedule is tough enough as it is with 18 games in 11 days. 18 in 10 at that time control with a 300k trip as well is much worse.

cheers Garrett.

yes, and add to that the original city of departure ie Brisbane (Melbourne in my case) Canberra, Sydney, Brisbane (Melbourne). We are talking about a huge distance covered! That's why I have decided to give Doeberl a miss, which I will continue doing unless the tournaments are organised in such a way that allow the players sufficient rest time in between.
I have noticed that certain players have given SIO a miss in order to play in Doeberl. So, IMHO both tournaments lose players because of thie schedule.




Completely agree, Garrett. Good luck over the board mate! See you at Parra!

Ditto from me to both of you! :)

Charles
21-04-2011, 02:31 PM
Hi all,

Could all who read this log on and try out the live games.

Leonkempen
21-04-2011, 02:34 PM
only board one comes up - no list at bottom of screen

ER
21-04-2011, 02:35 PM
Hi all,

Could all who read this log on and try out the live games.

Thanks Charles, I can only see one game


1 37 Broekhuyse Paul 0 0 GM Hansen Sune Berg

Garrett
21-04-2011, 03:26 PM
Completely agree, Garrett. Good luck over the board mate! See you at Parra!

Thanks Jonathan and JaK !!

It would have been great to catch up !

Unfortunately, I originally had friends coming for the Easter break and only cancelled a couple of weeks ago so I was unable to play Canberra/Sydney this year.

I am definately in again next year though for the 50th Doeberl, and Parra if it is on !

Cheers and good luck in Sydney fella's !

ER
21-04-2011, 03:39 PM
Go Sally! (ladies first)! :)
http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee481/jak_jak1/Sally.jpg
and
Go Karl!
http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee481/jak_jak1/Noble%20Park%20Chess%20Club/100_2820.jpg

Garrett
21-04-2011, 03:46 PM
So how is the Qld Champ Vs co-Vic champ going on board 16 JaK ?

QUEENSLANDER !!

If you get a chance, introduce yourself to Yi, he is a great young bloke.

Watto
21-04-2011, 04:03 PM
Thanks for the photos, JaK. :) How's Karl going against Tony?

ER
21-04-2011, 04:09 PM
So how is the Qld Champ Vs co-Vic champ going on board 16 JaK ?

QUEENSLANDER !!

If you get a chance, introduce yourself to Yi, he is a great young bloke.

I know him Garrett, :) we met in Sunshine Coast! :) I have published his pic in the thread! :)


Thanks for the photos, JaK. How's Karl going against Tony?

LOL Watto and Garrett, I am still in Melbourne. Not going to Doeberl this year, ... check posting a few posts back! Departing for Sydney tomorrow morning! :) I will be staying in Katoomba for a couple of days (Easter incl) then heading down to Parra! :) Cheers all!

Sally's and Karl's pictures are from my archives! :)

Garrett
21-04-2011, 04:11 PM
ha ha - okay thanks JaK !!

Watto
21-04-2011, 04:19 PM
LOL Watto and Garrett, I am still in Melbourne. Not going to Doeberl this year, ... check posting a few posts back! Departing for Sydney tomorrow morning! :) I will be staying in Katoomba for a couple of days (Easter incl) then heading down to Parra! :) Cheers all!

Sally's and Karl's pictures are from my archives! :)
lol, sorry Jak! Good luck in Sydney!

lost
21-04-2011, 04:21 PM
Thanks for the photos, JaK. :) How's Karl going against Tony?

I can report Watto that Karl is doing ok against Tony.

lost

Charles
21-04-2011, 04:22 PM
Only one board up - had five working, tied down the cables - stopped working. Will work on between rounds.

ER
21-04-2011, 05:21 PM
lol, sorry Jak! Good luck in Sydney!

Thanks Watto! Happy Easter to you and Guy and the rest of the family! :)

lost
21-04-2011, 06:22 PM
I am pleased to annouce that Karl Zelesco won against Tony Dowden. There were some other results with Chess Victorian President, Leonid Sandler drawing with Queensland's WIM Alexander Jule.

Leonid qoutes that his opponent had the slight advantage with 2 bishops against a bishop and knight. In the final position Leonid offered a draw in an inferior position for black.

Chris Wallis drew the first round with his opponent. Erik Teichmann lost with his 1.b4 opening against Sam Grigg from Queensland. Queensland's Stephen Solomon is a piece down against Eugene Schon but according to Ian Rogers has a 50% chance of winning.

In regards to the top seeds GM Aruthian won against David Hacche. GM Deviatkin win against Victorian Lawrence Matherson. Bulgarian GM, Dejan Bojkov, won against South Australian, Fedja Zulfic.

Further updates will come throughout the evening.

lost

Oepty
21-04-2011, 06:26 PM
I am pleased to annouce that Karl Zelesco won against Tony Dowden. There were some other results with Chess Victorian President, Leonid Sandler drawing with Queensland's WIM Alexander Jule.

Leonid qoutes that his opponent had the slight advantage with 2 bishops against a bishop and knight. In the final position Leonid offered a draw in an inferior position for black.

Chris Wallis drew the first round with his opponent. Erik Teichmann lost with his 1.b4 opening against Sam Grigg from Queensland. Queensland's Stephen Solomon is a piece down against Eugene Schon but according to Ian Rogers has a 50% chance of winning.

In regards to the top seeds GM Aruthian won against David Hacche. GM Deviatkin win against Victorian Lawrence Matherson. Bulgarian GM, Dejan Bojkov, won against South Australian, Fedja Zulfic.

Further updates will come throughout the evening.

lost

Great report, thankyou. I will be there tommorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Scott

Garrett
21-04-2011, 06:28 PM
thanks Lost.

The report is appreciated !!

Adamski
21-04-2011, 06:30 PM
I can report Watto that Karl is doing ok against Tony.

lost
Go Tony Dowden!

Kevin Bonham
21-04-2011, 06:38 PM
I believe Karl won.

That was an unfortunate pairing that resulted from the inferior FIDE rating system somewhat exaggerating the difference between the players. Had they been seeded by ACF rating first (using FIDE ratings for ACF-unrated players) Tony would have just made the bottom half and would have had a nice easy one against Bojkov instead, while Karl would have played and beaten some other 2100. :lol:

ER
21-04-2011, 06:47 PM
Go Tony Dowden!

LOL sorry Jonathan, a bit too late! :) good effort Tony but ....

GO Karl another 8 to go!!!

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee481/jak_jak1/Noble%20Park%20Chess%20Club/100_2850.jpg

mikesguns
21-04-2011, 07:08 PM
I believe the sign in is at 1200pm for the major, but I might be late, I should be there by 1pm, the start of the first round, so is it possible I dont have to sign in

Charles
21-04-2011, 07:22 PM
Hi,

If you are paid, signin is not required - the draw will be up in the next couple of hours for Major and Minor.

We have four operating DGT boards - fingers crossed. Dodgy ethernet cable has been replaced.

Kevin Bonham
21-04-2011, 07:35 PM
Four live games going now and they are:

Schon - Bojkov
Hansen - Morris
Deviatkin - Bliznyuk
Steadman - Aruntinian

I assume from the first of these that Schon defeated Solomon.

Oepty
21-04-2011, 07:51 PM
First round results http://chess-results.com/tnr48373.aspx?art=2&rd=1&lan=1&wi=1000
Upsets
Schon beat Solomon
Grigg beat Teichmann
A.Smirnov drew with Cheng
Wallis - Yi Liu draw
A. Jule - Sandler draw
Ikeda - Abrahams draw
Oliver - Tan draw
A. Cameron beat Jason Hu
Zelesco beat Dowden

Scott

EDIT: I suggest everyone bookmark the link to the chess-results.com webpage. Excellent way of getting the results. I think the Major will be up there as well when it starts tommorrow.

lost
21-04-2011, 09:42 PM
Quick report on Doeberl Cup Premier.

Firstly, young gun Karl Zelesco is playing FM Chris Wallis and is doing quite well against him. Ian has said it should end in a draw.

Speaking on Ian, he has also said that Justin Tan is doing well against GM David Smerdon who had a bye in the first round.

On other news Ari Dale is doing ok against Women's Olympiad member, WFM Emma Guo as well.

Further news will come soon.

lost

ChessGuru
21-04-2011, 10:40 PM
Doeberl Cup online live at AusChess.tornelo.com

Live results as they become available.

johnny_cage
21-04-2011, 11:33 PM
Hi,

So, just to confirm. If we've already paid the entry fee then the sign-in is not necessary and we can just rock up to our games? For example, 1:00pm Friday for those who entered the major division.

It sounds weird to call it a sign-in if its really the deadline for last second payments. "Player sign-in" sounds comprehensive.

Regards,
johnny

Charles
21-04-2011, 11:54 PM
Hi,

So, just to confirm. If we've already paid the entry fee then the sign-in is not necessary and we can just rock up to our games? For example, 1:00pm Friday for those who entered the major division.

It sounds weird to call it a sign-in if its really the deadline for last second payments. "Player sign-in" sounds comprehensive.

Regards,
johnny

We will update the wording of the website for next year. Draw for the major and minor will be at the venue and on the website tonight or tomorrow morning. Please arrive by 1245 for opening ceremony as we aim to start clocks by 1300.

ER
22-04-2011, 12:03 AM
Go Karl!!! Seven more to go! :clap:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee481/jak_jak1/Box%20Hill%20Chess%20Club/100_2540.jpg

Kevin Bonham
22-04-2011, 12:05 AM
Another victim for Ian Rout - defeats Jason Hu in just 21 moves with black

1. c4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. g3 Nf6 4. Bg2 c5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. O-O Nc6 7. d4 cxd4 8. Nxd4 Bd7 9. Nc3 Nxc3 10. bxc3 Be7 11. Rb1 Rb8 12. Bf4 e5 13. Nxc6 bxc6 14. Bxe5 Rxb1 15. Qxb1 O-O 16. Qb7 Qe8 17. Rd1 Bc5 18. Rxd7 Qxe5 19. Qxc6 Qxc3 20. Rc7 Qe1+ 21. Bf1 Qxf2+ 0-1

More upsets this round - McNamara over Toth, Alastair Cameron over Andrew Brown. Karl Zelesco beat Christopher Wallis but I'm not sure it's an upset when Zelesco at current strength defeats anyone who isn't a GM!

James Morris was in on the back foot against GM Hansen but Hansen missed 21.Rxe6 which wins a pawn (and should provide strong chances if white is careful about which endgame to enter and James pounced with a tactic 21...Nxc4! and after that the GM suddenly had nothing.

Adamski
22-04-2011, 12:30 AM
Another victim for Ian Rout - defeats Jason Hu in just 21 moves with black

1. c4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. g3 Nf6 4. Bg2 c5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. O-O Nc6 7. d4 cxd4 8. Nxd4 Bd7 9. Nc3 Nxc3 10. bxc3 Be7 11. Rb1 Rb8 12. Bf4 e5 13. Nxc6 bxc6 14. Bxe5 Rxb1 15. Qxb1 O-O 16. Qb7 Qe8 17. Rd1 Bc5 18. Rxd7 Qxe5 19. Qxc6 Qxc3 20. Rc7 Qe1+ 21. Bf1 Qxf2+ 0-1

More upsets this round - McNamara over Toth, Alastair Cameron over Andrew Brown. Karl Zelesco beat Christopher Wallis but I'm not sure it's an upset when Zelesco at current strength defeats anyone who isn't a GM!

James Morris was in on the back foot against GM Hansen but Hansen missed 21.Rxe6 which wins a pawn (and should provide strong chances if white is careful about which endgame to enter and James pounced with a tactic 21...Nxc4! and after that the GM suddenly had nothing.
Great results for Ian R and these juniors! Especially in James's case given that his mother said in the shoutbox that he has been sick - started in Thailand.

Oepty
22-04-2011, 04:58 AM
9 surprise results out of 30 in the first round and 13 out 31 in the second round by a quick count. Very interesting so far. Zelesco and Cameron on 2/2 and, Teichamnn on 0/2 and not paired for round 3.
Scott

Ian Rout
22-04-2011, 08:59 AM
Another victim for Ian Rout - defeats Jason Hu in just 21 moves with black.
Although there are seven rounds to go, this is certain to be the worse game of the tournament. I was half-asleep and got a dead lost position after about twelve games, Jason was obviously even more tired and left a simple mate on.

Garvinator
22-04-2011, 09:42 AM
Zelesco really seems to be the real deal :P

Adamski
22-04-2011, 10:20 AM
Zelesco really seems to be the real deal :P
I expect FM Max will beat him in Round 3.

MichaelBaron
22-04-2011, 04:24 PM
The Tournament website appears to be down :(

Kevin Bonham
22-04-2011, 04:32 PM
The Tournament website appears to be down :(

It has been down on and off through the day and I haven't seen any signs of life for the last hour or so.

ER
22-04-2011, 04:58 PM
One could expect someone from the organisers would provide some of the information available!
Thanks and huge :clap: :clap: :clap: s to David Cordover and his Tornelo for providing the results as they occur!

lost
22-04-2011, 05:24 PM
Hi everyone,

Max Illingworth puts an end to young gun, Karl Zelesco's dream start and moves to 3 points with GM's Bojkov and Deviatkin.

As for the major, it is a very strong field and has been some upsets already.

However, the minor tournament, which I am playing in, has already had 11 upsets in the first round.

A more detailed report will come later.

lost

Kevin Bonham
22-04-2011, 05:55 PM
Very tough field this year it seems, with only three players on 3/3 although the number of draws has not been all that high.

Charles
22-04-2011, 06:57 PM
Hi all,

Yes the website has melted down again. We will try to get it up tomorrow. Draws will be distributed manually and through Chess Results.com (Premier/Major).

First video is on You tube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xlxt35vSlA

ChessGuru
22-04-2011, 09:21 PM
Tornelo is continuing to provide live results from http://auschess.tornelo.com/

We cannot provide live game coverage, but we've got a good number of games from previous round into the site. Trying to get them in as soon as possible.

We're trying to get the players to do a bit more of the game entry.

Garvinator
22-04-2011, 09:47 PM
Who are the people who are part of the organising team and arbiting team in any kind of official capacity?

ER
22-04-2011, 09:54 PM
Tornelo is continuing to provide live results from http://auschess.tornelo.com/

We cannot provide live game coverage, but we've got a good number of games from previous round into the site. Trying to get them in as soon as possible.

We're trying to get the players to do a bit more of the game entry.



You are doing well David, just got the latest results and thanks for that!

Having said that, I just noticed some results having been inserted for round 5 which is rather inexplicable! :doh: :hmm: :lol:

Tony Dowden
22-04-2011, 10:20 PM
I expect FM Max will beat him in Round 3.

Yes, Max did beat Karl and then Eugene did the same in Rd 4 just a little earlier. Max told me that Karl was playing at bout 2400 which is no faint praise

Kevin Bonham
22-04-2011, 10:37 PM
Max told me that Karl was playing at bout 2400 which is no faint praise

Max must have reckoned he was playing even better!

Was interested to see where this one ended up as there was nothing in it when the site went down on move 25.

Illingworth - Zelesco

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 e6 5.e3 Nbd7 6.Qc2 b6 7.b3 Bb7 8.Bb2 Be7 9.Bd3 0-0 10.0-0 Qc7 11.Rac1 Rac8 12.e4 dxe4 13.Nxe4 Nxe4 14.Bxe4 Nf6 15.c5 Qf4 16.Rfe1 Rfd8 17.g3 Qh6 18.Qe2 Nxe4 19.Qxe4 Rd5 20.b4 Rcd8 21.Qe2 Bf6 22.Rcd1 Qh5 23.Kg2 g5 24.h3 g4 25.hxg4 Qxg4 26.Qe4 Qg7 27.Rc1 bxc5 28.bxc5 Bc8 29.Ba1 Bg5 30.Rb1 f5 31.Qe2 f4 32.Qe4 fxg3 33.fxg3 Rf8 34.Rb8 Bf4 35.Rxc8 Qxg3+ 36.Kf1 Qh3+? [36...Rxc8 37.Ke2 Qg2+ 38.Kd3 Qh3 39.Qxf4 Rf5 40.Rg1+ Kf7 41.Ke2 Rxf4 42.Ng5+ Ke7 43.Nxh3 +/=] 37.Ke2 Rxc8 38.Rg1+ Kh8 39.Qxf4 Qf5 40.Qxf5 exf5 41.Ne5 Rc7 42.Bc3 Re7 43.Ke3 Rg7 44.Rxg7 Kxg7 45.Nxc6 Rd7 46.d5+ Kf8 47.d6 Ke8 48.Ne5 Rg7 49.Ba5 Rd7 50.Kd4 h5 51.Nxd7 Kxd7 52.Kd5 h4 53.c6+ Ke8 54.Ke6 h3 55.Kf6 Kf8 56.d7 Kg8 57.Kg6 h2 58.d8Q# 1-0

ER
22-04-2011, 10:38 PM
OK Karl, have a good night's sleep, forget about today and get ready for a couple of hard fights tomorrow! you can catch up! :)
five more rounds to go! :)
GO KARL!!!!

Charles
22-04-2011, 11:13 PM
Who are the people who are part of the organising team and arbiting team in any kind of official capacity?


I am the Chief Organiser
Shaun Press is DOP, Charles Zworestine and Scott Coliver as arbiters.
Shun Ikeda, Mirabelle Guo and Agus Setiabudi on the Score table.

Why?

Garvinator
22-04-2011, 11:21 PM
I am the Chief Organiser
Shaun Press is DOP, Charles Zworestine and Scott Coliver as arbiters.
Shun Ikeda, Mirabelle Guo and Agus Setiabudi on the Score table.

Why?
I was wondering, and possibly concerned, about David Cordover's involvement in the tournament.

Kevin Bonham
22-04-2011, 11:30 PM
I was wondering, and possibly concerned, about David Cordover's involvement in the tournament.

As I understand it from previous discussion David is simply running Tornelo as an unofficial trial alongside the official pairings etc. It is not being used to do pairings but it is being used by David to put up results of rounds in progress, with some games also being entered after they have finished.

Seems more like something to be thankful for than suspicious of in this instance, especially with the official website down.

Kevin Bonham
23-04-2011, 12:27 AM
Tornelo appears to have a data entry error as Wallis-Tan in round 3 is showing as a win for black but the chess-results display and the pairings indicate a draw.

ER
23-04-2011, 12:34 AM
I was wondering, and possibly concerned, about David Cordover's involvement in the tournament.

Garvin, no reason to wonder and possibly be concerned!
Maybe you have created the wrong impression but I can assure you that, despite whatever differences of opinion, David is definitely not a persona non grata!
Far from it!

Bill Gletsos
23-04-2011, 01:39 AM
9 surprise results out of 30 in the first round and 13 out 31 in the second round by a quick count. Very interesting so far. Zelesco and Cameron on 2/2 and, Teichamnn on 0/2 and not paired for round 3.Did Teichmann withdraw after round 2?

Oepty
23-04-2011, 08:34 AM
Did Teichmann withdraw after round 2?

Yes

Basil
23-04-2011, 09:15 AM
Did Teichmann withdraw after round 2?


Yes
Was it approved, or did he just Teik off? :D

Adamski
23-04-2011, 09:33 AM
Max coming first equal after draw with Darryl. Gets the Number 3 seed Russian GM as black in Round 5. Good luck Max!
Good to see Tony Dowden above 50% on 2.5 now. He gets world Junior Champion, and fellow (ex-)Kiwi, IM Bobby Cheng. Good luck Tony!

Desmond
23-04-2011, 09:40 AM
First round results http://chess-results.com/tnr48373.aspx?art=2&rd=1&lan=1&wi=1000
Upsets
Schon beat Solomon
Grigg beat Teichmann
A.Smirnov drew with Cheng
Wallis - Yi Liu draw
A. Jule - Sandler draw
Ikeda - Abrahams draw
Oliver - Tan draw
A. Cameron beat Jason Hu
Zelesco beat Dowden

Scott

EDIT: I suggest everyone bookmark the link to the chess-results.com webpage. Excellent way of getting the results. I think the Major will be up there as well when it starts tommorrow.
Thanks for the tip!

Adamski
23-04-2011, 09:54 AM
Thanks for the tip!
Yes, indeed. Mikesguns has made a good start in the Major.
See http://chess-results.com/tnr48444.aspx?art=2&rd=3&lan=1&wi=1000

Charles
23-04-2011, 10:09 AM
Website is backup and operational for the moment - trying to work out what is going on.

Garvinator
23-04-2011, 10:09 AM
Was it approved, or did he just Teik off? :DAnd for that some should be ticked off :P

Denis_Jessop
23-04-2011, 01:36 PM
I was wondering, and possibly concerned, about David Cordover's involvement in the tournament.

Garvin

Charles made David's (ie Tornelo's) position clear in his post #51:


Hi all,

I have had a couple of queries on the use of Tornelo at the the 2011 Doeberl Cup. I just thought I would clarify our position on it.

We will continue to use the Swiss Perfect and Swiss Manager programs for pairings run by Shaun, Charles, and this year Scott Colliver. Results will be uploaded to Chess-results.com and we will upload the html outputs as we have always done. We also run our own registration and payment system (through St George Bank).

However I think new things should be tried and we should always strive for improvement at the Doeberl. Tornelo promises many interesting improvements in visibility etc. So we have agreed that David can run it in parallel with the traditional system so that people can see online how it operates for a larger tournament with four divisions etc. It will also provide David with a very valuable live testing environment so he can see how the system responds in comparison to traditional solutions in a range of areas.

I have discussed the use of smartphones for uploading games and I think there is potential there. However at this stage, there are two main issues for us:
1. There is no way to ensure the safety of peoples equipment they leave on the table.
2. It opens up the possibility of the accusation of cheating through a player using a chess application on their phone - either when a player is actually cheating or when their opponent thinks they see something - even if they are wrong. We recognise that FIDE allow an arbiter to allow the use of communication devices in the hall but we will be going with traditional DGT boards and hand written score sheets for 2011.
__________________
Thanks,

Charles


David is there with a Tornelo table in the foyer but, as far as I know, has no official role in the tournament.

DJ

Charles
23-04-2011, 03:55 PM
Round 5 underway - fifth round we have started within 5 minutes of start for each of the last rounds.



Live games are up.

Oepty
23-04-2011, 04:14 PM
See the link for clarification on the issue of withdrawals
http://chessexpress.blogspot.com/
Scott

ChessGuru
23-04-2011, 05:29 PM
Classic determination from Solomon! 2 N v. Q and eventually he wins the game....:) :)

http://auschess.tornelo.com/tournaments/doeberl-cup--2

Round 5 - check it out.... Solo is a champ!

Mischa
23-04-2011, 05:47 PM
I can't see that anywhere

Kevin Bonham
23-04-2011, 05:48 PM
Only Solomon could win that game. Nobody else on earth. :clap:

Kevin Bonham
23-04-2011, 05:51 PM
I can't see that anywhere

Premier - Rd 5 on the right hand side, click on "111 moves". Solo had two knights for a queen for twenty of those moves and then won with a king and two knights (nothing else) for two pawns - even rubbing it in by letting Steadman get his queen back.

I'll put it through the tablebases later and work out how much of the two knights for two pawns ending was actually winning.

Mischa
23-04-2011, 05:52 PM
thanks

Mischa
23-04-2011, 05:54 PM
where tho?

AzureBlue
23-04-2011, 05:56 PM
where tho?
http://auschess.tornelo.com/tournaments/doeberl-cup--2

Click on the Premier tab, then scroll down, find Solo's name, click on it, then click on the game with 111 moves :D

Good one :clap:

Desmond
23-04-2011, 05:58 PM
Only Solomon could win that game. Nobody else on earth. :clap:
Yeah that was epic :clap:

Kevin Bonham
23-04-2011, 05:59 PM
"111 moves" should appear under "Game" on the right hand side of the round 5 pairings. Though I have found the games don't always show.

Mischa
23-04-2011, 06:01 PM
:( all I get is the screen going grey

Kevin Bonham
23-04-2011, 06:55 PM
With tablebase outcomes:

Solomon - Steadman

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Nc6 4.Ngf3 Nf6 5.e5 Nd7 6.Nb3 a5 7.a4 Be7 8.Bb5 Na7 9.Bxd7+ Qxd7 10.Nxa5 b6 11.Nb3 Ba6 12.c3 0-0 13.h4 c5 14.a5 cxd4 15.axb6 Nc8 16.Nbxd4 Be2 17.Rxa8 Bxd1 18.Kxd1 Nxb6 19.Rxf8+ Bxf8 20.b3 Qa7 21.Kc2 Qa2+ 22.Bb2 Ba3 23.Rb1 Nd7 24.Nb5 Bxb2 25.Rxb2 Qa6 26.c4 dxc4 27.bxc4 Qc6 28.Kc3 Nb6 29.Rb4 Nd5+ 30.Kb3 Nxb4 31.Kxb4 Qe4 32.Nd6 Qb1+ 33.Kc5 Qc2 34.Kc6 Qxf2 35.Ng5 Qxg2+ 36.Kd7 f6 37.exf6 gxf6 38.Nxe6 Qg4 39.c5 Qxh4 40.c6 Qa4 41.Nc5 Qd4 42.Ne6 Qa4 43.Nc5 Qd4 44.Nce4 Qa4 45.Nc3 Qd4 46.Ncb5 Qg4+ 47.Kc7 h5 48.Kb8 h4 49.c7 h3 50.Ne4 Kg7 51.c8=Q Qxc8+ [51...Qxe4 should draw and looks much safer] 52.Kxc8 This position is a tablebase draw and remains so for a long time 52...f5 53.Nf2 h2 54.Kd7 Kf6 55.Nc3 Ke5 56.Ncd1 Kf4 57.Nh1 Kf3 58.Ke6 Ke2 59.Ndf2 f4 60.Kf5 Ke3 61.Kg4 f3 62.Kg3 Kd4 63.Kxh2 Ke3 64.Kg3 Kd4 65.Kf4 Kd5 66.Ng3 Kd4 67.Nge4 Kd5 68.Ke3 Ke5 69.Nc3 Kf5 70.Kd4 Kf4 71.Nce4 Kf5 72.Nc5 Kf4 73.Ncd3+ Kf5 74.Kd5 Kf6 75.Kd6 Kf7 76.Ke5 Ke7 77.Nc5 Kf7 78.Nd7 Ke7 79.Nb6 Kf7 80.Nd5 Kg6 81.Kf4 Kg7 82.Kg5 Kf7 83.Kf5 Kg7 84.Ne7 Kf7 85.Nc6 Kg7 86.Ne5 Kf8 87.Ke6 Kg7 [87...Kg8 is a tablebase draw] 88.Ke7 Kh6 89.Kf6 Kh5 90.Ng6 Kh6 91.Nf4 Kh7 92.Ng6 [92.Ne6 is a tablebase win] 92...Kh6 [92...Kg8 is a tablebase draw] 93.Nf4 Kh7 94.Nh5 [94.Ne6 is a tablebase win] 94...Kh6 [94...Kg8 is a tablebase draw and is the last chance black is given] 95.Ng3 Kh7 96.Nf5 Kg8 97.Ke7 Kh7 98.Kf7 Kh8 99.Kg6 Kg8 100.Nd6 Kf8 101.Kf6 Kg8 102.Nf5 Kf8 103.Ng7 Kg8 104.Ne6 Kh7 105.Kg5 Kg8 106.Kg6 Kh8 107.Kf7 Kh7 108.Ng4 f2 109.Nf8+ Kh8 110.Nf6 f1=Q 111.Ng6# 1-0

It is interesting that in three different positions the move ...Kg8 is required to keep the position drawn with best play. The first in particular, where ...Kg7 loses but ...Kg8 draws, is especially mysterious.

Kevin Bonham
23-04-2011, 08:01 PM
Not surprising Solo lost to Deviatkin after that. What is interesting is how little damage the Australians generally are inflicting on the overseas GMs. James' draw with Hansen aside it's all been a bit grim so far.

ER
23-04-2011, 08:23 PM
Not surprising Solo lost to Deviatkin after that. What is interesting is how little damage the Australians generally are inflicting on the overseas GMs. James' draw with Hansen aside it's all been a bit grim so far.

Be hopeful, Darryl and Bobby haven't spoken yet! :)

Tony Dowden
23-04-2011, 08:39 PM
Max coming first equal after draw with Darryl. Gets the Number 3 seed Russian GM as black in Round 5. Good luck Max!
Good to see Tony Dowden above 50% on 2.5 now. He gets world Junior Champion, and fellow (ex-)Kiwi, IM Bobby Cheng. Good luck Tony!

Thanks Jonathan. It actually went pretty well against the ex-world champ (isn't he an FM?). I had White. It turned into a Hedgehog where I had an unusual set-up and tried to sac a pawns and even a piece fairly early on but Bobby very coolly declined everything (and showed me several long and scintillating lines to prove his point after the game). Later he somehow went a bit wrong and I pushed with g5 and f5 before he got in any of the typical breaks for Black (b5, d5, e5). He made small error and I was actually better for a while - maybe a lot better for a couple of moves - but I then went astray with a couple of errors in the final run-in to the 40 move time control and with some precise moves from Bobby it was all over.

I drew with Jonas Muller (QLD) tonight (Rd 6) in a bit of an anti-climactic game where I took a few risks but he defended calmly. Good to still be on 50% with 3/6 though :)

Kevin Bonham
23-04-2011, 11:18 PM
See the link for clarification on the issue of withdrawals
http://chessexpress.blogspot.com/

There is now also discussion of this in the Tournament Withdrawals thread in Arbiters' Corner. Actually I had expected the discussion to be about views of the policy itself rather than the question of whether it is really a policy at all, so there might be a need for clarification of the clarification - at least for JaK's benefit!

Adamski
23-04-2011, 11:53 PM
Not surprising Solo lost to Deviatkin after that. What is interesting is how little damage the Australians generally are inflicting on the overseas GMs. James' draw with Hansen aside it's all been a bit grim so far.
A tough day at the office for Max. A Russian GM followed by a Georgian GM. 0/2 from those 2 games. Better luck tomorrow Max (and Tony D, 0.5/2 today)!

Kevin Bonham
24-04-2011, 12:20 AM
Well in round 7 the locals get a rest from the overseas GMs while they play each other. So we'll see who among the 4.5 scoregroup in particular can get their act going enough to play the leader(s) in round 8 and whether they are up to the task.

Garrett
24-04-2011, 06:12 AM
Not surprising Solo lost to Deviatkin after that.

Perhaps more surprisingly, Mike Steadman also lost the next one in what appears to have been another long game.

Bad luck Mike, must have been an exhausting day.

but congrats to Yi Liu the Queensland Champ !

antichrist
24-04-2011, 07:17 AM
Perhaps more surprisingly, Mike Steadman also lost the next one in what appears to have been another long game.

Bad luck Mike, must have been an exhausting day.

!

which was one of the main reasons why I set up Sydney Easter Cup alongside Doeberl Cup, such hard slogging where some games are not the best due to fatigue. I generally find that near end of second day's play.

Adamski
24-04-2011, 05:20 PM
Good to see Harbord's David Webster in the large group of leaders in the Major. Go David!

In the Premier, Max and Andrew Brown have drawn each other. Brown is white.

Charles
24-04-2011, 07:36 PM
Round 7 top 10 games up shortly. New videos loaded as well.

Kevin Bonham
24-04-2011, 09:27 PM
Top pairings tomorrow:

Arutinian (6) - Deviatkin (6.5)
Smerdon (6) - Bojkov (6.5)
Hansen (6) - Schon (6)
Akshat Khamparia (5.5) - Johansen (5.5)
Illingworth (5.5) - Cheng (5.5)

As someone from the top two pairings must go to at least 7, only the top six are in contention for the win.

Kevin Bonham
24-04-2011, 09:41 PM
Just had a look at norm chances and what I got is that Schon gets an IM norm in the unlikely case that he defeats Hansen with black while Akshat Khamparia gets one if he draws or wins against Darryl with white. Illingworth and Cheng can't do it. Someone may want to check these in case I have made any mistakes.

Kevin Bonham
24-04-2011, 10:23 PM
The monster ... Ly - Johansen ...

1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 d6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.0-0-0 h6 9.Bf4 Bd7 10.Nxc6 Bxc6 11.Qe1 Qc7 12.f3 Be7 13.g4 b5 14.Bd3 g5 15.Bg3 Nd7 16.Kb1 Ne5 17.Rf1 Bb7 18.Ne2 Qc5 19.h3 h5 20.f4 gxf4 21.Nxf4 hxg4 22.hxg4 Nxg4 23.e5 Qxe5 24.Qxe5 Nxe5 25.Nxe6!! fxe6 26.Bxe5 Rf8 Spectacular play by white but since Darryl is not interested in getting mated, white is still struggling. 27.Bg7 Rxf1 28.Rxf1 Bd5 29.a4 bxa4 30.c4 Bc6 31.Bg6+ Kd8 32.Bc3 Kd7 33.Rf7 Rf8 34.Rg7 e5 35.Bh5 Be4+ 36.Ka2 Ke6 37.Bd1 Bd3 38.Bxa4 Bxc4+ 39.Kb1 Rf5 40.Kc2 d5 41.Bd7+ Kxd7 42.Bb4 d4 43.Rxe7+ Kc6 44.b3 Bb5 45.Ba5 Kd6 46.Rg7 e4 47.Bb6 Rd5 48.Rg4 Ke5 49.Bc7+ Kf5 50.Rf4+ Kg5 51.Rxe4 Rc5+ 52.Kb2 Rxc7 53.Rxd4 Kf5 54.Rb4 Ke5 55.Rh4 Kd5 56.Rb4 Rg7 57.Rh4 Rg5 58.Rf4 Kc5 59.Rh4 Bc6 60.Rc4+ Kb5 61.Rc3 Bd5 62.Ka3 Rg2 63.Re3 Kc5 64.Rd3 Rh2 65.Rg3 Rh6 66.Rd3 Rh2 67.Rg3 Rd2 68.Rh3 Rc2 69.Rg3 Re2 70.Rh3 Kd4 71.Rg3 Re6 72.Kb2 Rh6 73.Ka3 Be4 74.Kb2 Bd3 75.Rf3 Rh2+ 76.Ka3 Be4 77.Rg3 Bd3 78.Rf3 Kc3 79.Rf8 Kc2 80.Rg8 Rh5 81.Rc8+ Kd2 82.Kb2 Rh3 83.Rd8 Ke3 84.Re8+ Kd4 85.Rc8 Bb5 86.Rc7 Bd3 87.Rc8 Be4 88.Rc4+ Ke5 89.Rc3 Rh2+ 90.Ka3 Kd5 91.Rc1 Kd6 92.Re1 Bd5 93.Re3 Kc5 94.Rd3 a5 95.Rc3+ Kd4 96.Rg3 Rd2 97.Rh3 Kc5 98.Rc3+ Kb5 99.Rh3 [99.Rc8 was apparently the only move here] 99...a4! 100.bxa4+ Ka5 [Alas for Darryl he misses a fast win since 100...Kc5 also threatens mate but does not allow the stalemate trap since the white pawn is not blocked.] 101.Rh2! After the stalemate swindle trap white now has a tablebase draw. 101...Rd3+ 102.Kb2 Kxa4 103.Rh4+ Kb5 104.Kc2 Bc4 105.Rh8 Rg3 106.Rh5+ Kb4 107.Kd2 Rg2+ 108.Ke3 Kc3 109.Rh8 Re2+ 110.Kf3 Re5 111.Rc8 Kd4 112.Kf4 Re1 113.Kf3 Rf1+ 114.Kg2 Rf5 115.Kg3 Bd5 116.Re8 Rf7 117.Rd8 Ke5 118.Re8+ Be6 119.Rb8 Ke4 120.Re8 Rf6 121.Re7 Ke3 122.Rg7 Bf5 123.Kh4 Be4 124.Rg3+ Kd4 125.Rg8 Rf1 126.Rg7 Ke5 127.Rg5+ Bf5 128.Rg2 Rh1+ 129.Kg5 Be4 130.Rf2 Rg1+ 131.Kh4 Rg8 132.Rf1 Bf5 133.Rf2 Kf6 134.Rb2 [134.Rh2 or R to anywhere vacant square on the f-file would hold the draw] 134...Rg4+! Only this wins 135.Kh5 Rg3 [Rook to f4, g5, g7, g8 were all wins but this is a tablebase draw again] 136.Rh2 Rg8 137.Kh4 Rg4+ 138.Kh5 [138.Kh3! draws. Now it's a win again.] 138...Ra4 [Tablebase draw again. 138...Rf4 was the only win, and in the game circumstances if white resisted perfectly black would just get the job done in time with perfect play - 139.Rh1 Be4 140.Rh3 Bg2 141.Rh2 Bf3+ 142.Kh6 Re4 143.Rh3 Bg2 144.Rh2 Rd4 145.Kh7 Be4+ 146.Kh6 Bf5 147.Kh5 Bg6+ 148.Kh6 Rd7 149.Rf2+ Bf5 and mates on black's 50th move!] 139.Rf2 Rb4 140.Rf1 Rb3 141.Rh1?? [141.Rf4 still draws but is the only move to do so] 141...Rb8 0-1

Adamski
24-04-2011, 11:08 PM
Interesting that Cheng and Illingworth play in the last round. They have identical FIDE ratings. A chance for the winner to go ahead.

Kevin Bonham
24-04-2011, 11:12 PM
They have also met very similar average-rating fields, but Max had a very good result overseas that has yet to be rated.

lost
24-04-2011, 11:59 PM
Just had a look at norm chances and what I got is that Schon gets an IM norm in the unlikely case that he defeats Hansen with black while Akshat Khamparia gets one if he draws or wins against Darryl with white. Illingworth and Cheng can't do it. Someone may want to check these in case I have made any mistakes.

I can confirm Akshat Khamparia doesn't need any more norms but the rating only.

I believe Schon just needs a draw against the GM tomorrow and get an IM norm out of it.

lost

Kevin Bonham
25-04-2011, 12:25 AM
I can confirm Akshat Khamparia doesn't need any more norms but the rating only.

OK, that settles that one.


I believe Schon just needs a draw against the GM tomorrow and get an IM norm out of it.

This is what I get:

Schon's opponents:

Solomon 2398
Bojkov 2523
Rout 1983
Zelesco 2050 (One allowed uplift from 1843 as per 1.46c - note only one allowed as per 1.46c1)
Ly 2381
Goundar 1915
Liu 1972
Goh 2382
Hansen 2603

Total 20207. Average 2245.2

which on the tables at 1.49 at http://www.fide.com/component/handbook/?id=58&view=article requires a score of 7/9. The minimum opponent rating average for 6.5/9 is 2284.

Let me know if you can see anything I've missed or got wrong.

BearDrinkingBeer
25-04-2011, 10:13 AM
Schon gets an IM norm in the unlikely case that he defeats Hansen with black

We'll see :D

Thanks for providing those endgame annotations on Ly-Johansen. A very interesting game.

Capablanca-Fan
25-04-2011, 10:25 AM
The monster ... Ly – Johansen ...

1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 d6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.0-0-0 h6 9.Bf4 Bd7 10.Nxc6 Bxc6 11.Qe1 Qc7 12.f3 Be7 13.g4 b5 14.Bd3 g5 15.Bg3 Nd7 16.Kb1 Ne5 17.Rf1 Bb7 18.Ne2 Qc5 19.h3 h5 20.f4 gxf4 21.Nxf4 hxg4 22.hxg4 Nxg4 23.e5 Qxe5 24.Qxe5 Nxe5 25.Nxe6{!!} fxe6 26.Bxe5 Rf8 {Spectacular play by white but since Darryl is not interested in getting mated, white is still struggling.} 27.Bg7 Rxf1 28.Rxf1 Bd5 29.a4 bxa4 30.c4 Bc6 31.Bg6+ Kd8 32.Bc3 Kd7 33.Rf7 Rf8 34.Rg7 e5 35.Bh5 Be4+ 36.Ka2 Ke6 37.Bd1 Bd3 38.Bxa4 Bxc4+ 39.Kb1 Rf5 40.Kc2 d5{?!} [40... Rf2+] {would prevent Ly's nice swindle forcing opposite-squared Bs, and would have saved almost 100 moves — Jono} 41.Bd7+ Kxd7 42.Bb4 d4 43.Rxe7+ Kc6 44.b3 Bb5 45.Ba5 Kd6 46.Rg7 e4 {?!} [46... Rf2+] {would force White to the back rank, then 47... Kd5-e4 to support the Ps and maybe even created mating threats} 47.Bb6 Rd5 48.Rg4 Ke5 49.Bc7+ Kf5 50.Rf4+ Kg5 51.Rxe4 Rc5+ 52.Kb2 Rxc7 53.Rxd4 Kf5 54.Rb4 Ke5 55.Rh4 Kd5 56.Rb4 Rg7 57.Rh4 Rg5 58.Rf4 Kc5 59.Rh4 Bc6 60.Rc4+ Kb5 61.Rc3 Bd5 62.Ka3 Rg2 63.Re3 Kc5 64.Rd3 Rh2 65.Rg3 Rh6 66.Rd3 Rh2 67.Rg3 Rd2 68.Rh3 Rc2 69.Rg3 Re2 70.Rh3 Kd4 71.Rg3 Re6 72.Kb2 Rh6 73.Ka3 Be4 74.Kb2 Bd3 75.Rf3 Rh2+ 76.Ka3 Be4 77.Rg3 Bd3 78.Rf3 Kc3 79.Rf8 Kc2 80.Rg8 Rh5 81.Rc8+ Kd2 82.Kb2 Rh3 83.Rd8 Ke3 84.Re8+ Kd4 85.Rc8 Bb5 86.Rc7 Bd3 87.Rc8 Be4 88.Rc4+ Ke5 89.Rc3 Rh2+ 90.Ka3 Kd5 91.Rc1 Kd6 92.Re1 Bd5 93.Re3 Kc5 94.Rd3 a5 95.Rc3+ Kd4 96.Rg3 Rd2 97.Rh3 Kc5 98.Rc3+ Kb5 99.Rh3 [99.Rc8 was apparently the only move here] 99...a4! 100.bxa4+ Ka5 [Alas for Darryl he misses a fast win since 100...Kc5 also threatens mate but does not allow the stalemate trap since the white pawn is not blocked.] 101.Rh2! After the stalemate swindle trap white now has a tablebase draw. 101...Rd3+ 102.Kb2 Kxa4 103.Rh4+ Kb5 104.Kc2 Bc4 105.Rh8 Rg3 106.Rh5+ Kb4 107.Kd2 Rg2+ 108.Ke3 Kc3 109.Rh8 Re2+ 110.Kf3 Re5 111.Rc8 Kd4 112.Kf4 Re1 113.Kf3 Rf1+ 114.Kg2 Rf5 115.Kg3 Bd5 116.Re8 Rf7 117.Rd8 Ke5 118.Re8+ Be6 119.Rb8 Ke4 120.Re8 Rf6 121.Re7 Ke3 122.Rg7 Bf5 123.Kh4 Be4 124.Rg3+ Kd4 125.Rg8 Rf1 126.Rg7 Ke5 127.Rg5+ Bf5 128.Rg2 Rh1+ 129.Kg5 Be4 {Knowing tablebase draws for R+B v R is beyind mortals. The best way to defend is knowing the typical drawing positions, in particular, Ly overlooked the Second Rank Defence— Jono} 130.Rf2 [130. Rg3! Rh8 131. Rg4 Bf3 132. Rg3 Rf8 {now White must retreat to the first rank, but …} 133. Kh4 Kf4 134. Rg4+! {with stalemate if captured, so Black can make no progress. A typical determined player might let White out again and hope to trick him elsewhere on the board before the same position can be achieved with the board rotated}] 130... Rg1+ 131.Kh4 Rg8 132.Rf1 Bf5 133.Rf2 Kf6 134.Rb2 [134.Rh2 or R to anywhere vacant square on the f-file would hold the draw] 134...Rg4+! Only this wins 135.Kh5 Rg3 [Rook to f4, g5, g7, g8 were all wins but this is a tablebase draw again] 136.Rh2 Rg8 137.Kh4 Rg4+ 138.Kh5 [138.Kh3! draws. Now it's a win again.] 138...Ra4 [Tablebase draw again. 138...Rf4 was the only win, and in the game circumstances if white resisted perfectly black would just get the job done in time with perfect play - 139.Rh1 Be4 140.Rh3 Bg2 141.Rh2 Bf3+ 142.Kh6 Re4 143.Rh3 Bg2 144.Rh2 Rd4 145.Kh7 Be4+ 146.Kh6 Bf5 147.Kh5 Bg6+ 148.Kh6 Rd7 149.Rf2+ Bf5 {and mates on black's 50th move!}] {Knowing tablebase draws for R+B v R is beyind mortals.} 139.Rf2 Rb4 140.Rf1 Rb3 141.Rh1?? [141.Rf4 {still draws but is the only move to do so}] 141 ...Rb8 {0-1}

Kevin Bonham
25-04-2011, 06:13 PM
Well deserved outright win by Deviatkin winning with black against a fellow GM in the final round when it would have been so easy to take a draw and a three-way =1st.

Metro
25-04-2011, 10:40 PM
Well deserved outright win by Deviatkin winning with black against a fellow GM in the final round when it would have been so easy to take a draw and a three-way =1st.



1 GM Deviatkin A. 2566 RUS 7.5
2 GM Bojkov Dejan 2523 BUL 7.0
3 GM Hansen S. B. 2603 DEN 7.0
4 GM Smerdon David 2512 AUS 6.5
5 FM A. Khamparia 2328 IND 6.5
6 FM Illingworth Max 2345 AUS 6.5
7 GM Arutinian David 2575 GEO 6.0
8 Schon Eugene 2157 AUS 6.0
9 IM Toth Andras 2378 HUN 6.0
10 FM Ikeda Junta 2296 AUS 6.0
11 FM Stojic Dusan 2306 AUS 6.0

Adamski
25-04-2011, 11:15 PM
Great performance by Max. Pity his field was not strong enough for a second in a row IM norm. Maybe the SIO...

Adamski
25-04-2011, 11:40 PM
Great performance by Max. Pity his field was not strong enough for a second in a row IM norm. Maybe the SIO...
FM Max Illingworth did not play enough overseas players for an IM norm. His only overseas opponents were the 2 strong GMs which games were his only losses.

Kevin Bonham
25-04-2011, 11:44 PM
This is the decisive game Arutinian - Deviatkin. White gets pretty much nothing from the opening and then a loose move 21.h4 is very instructively exploited by black who wins that pawn in just six moves. After this white is always struggling and at best will have to defend a bad ending a pawn down. I am unsure whether the OCB ending two pawns down is always lost but it appears to me that even the idea 52.g4 does not save white. Further comments on that ending and suggested drawing ideas for white welcome but two pawns down with widely distant majorities is generally considered ugly.

1.c4 c6 2.e4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.cxd5 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nxd5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Bb5 e6 8.0-0 Be7 9.d4 0-0 10.Re1 Qd6 11.a3 Rd8 12.Qc2 Bd7 13.Bd3 h6 14.Bd2 Rac8 15.Nxd5 exd5 16.Bc3 Bg4 17.Ne5 Nxe5 18.dxe5 Qb6 19.Qa4 Bd7 20.Qf4 Be6 21.h4? This probably seemed like a good idea at the time but black takes advantage of it 21...d4 22.Bd2 Qb3 23.Be4?! [23.Qe4 g6 24.Qe2 h5 25.Bg5 Bxg5 26.hxg5 h4 and black may be better but not so much so as in the game] 23...d3! Suddenly white has severe positional problems in the form of a weakness on the fourth rank, a contributing factor being that his queen is tasked with the defence of the h-pawn 24.Qg3 Kh8! There is time for this as white cannot solve his problems 25.Bc3 d2 26.Red1 Rc4 27.Qf3 Bxh4 28.Ba5 Qxf3 [Conservative. 28...Qxb2 29.Bxd8 Bxd8 should win - but it is not as if white's position is any good anyway] 29.Bxf3 b6 30.Bxd2 Rc2 31.Be3 Rxb2 32.a4 Rxd1+ 33.Rxd1 Bg5 34.Bd4 [34.Bxg5 hxg5 35.Bd5 and try to hold the rook ending perhaps] 34...Rb4 35.Bc6 Bg4 36.f3 Bxf3?! (I had this as ! but see Vlad's post below - it looks like the OCB ending may not be initially lost) 37.Bxf3 Rxd4 38.Rxd4 Be3+ 39.Kf1 Bxd4 40.Bd5 Kg8 41.e6 fxe6 42.Bxe6+ Kf8 43.Ke2 Ke7 44.Bh3 Kd6 45.Kd3 Kc5 46.Bd7 Bf6 47.Be6? (see Vlad's post) 47...b5 48.axb5 Kxb5 49.Bf7 a5 50.Ke4 Kb4 51.Kd3 a4 52.Bg8 [52.g4 offers most resistance but I believe it still loses. Black's plan will be to bring his king to the kingside, play g6 once white's king is far enough over that the bishop cannot capture without the a-pawn queening, and then forcibly occupy g5 and play h5 recapturing with the king (recapture with the pawn is a draw).] 52...h5 53.Bf7 h4 54.Bg8 a3 55.Bf7 g5 56.Be6 g4 57.Ke4 Kc3 58.Kf4 g3 0-1

[EDITS to annotations in light of Vlad's comments and further analysis.]

Kevin Bonham
26-04-2011, 12:10 AM
Quite a few strong performances further down the field: McNamara (beat two IMs), Yi Liu (mixed it nicely with the 2200 crowd), Muller (well above rating), Shannon Oliver (played 2000+ junior stars in most rounds and broke even) etc.

Vlad
26-04-2011, 12:49 AM
Just a few comments about this ending. It was discussed for a while after the game and still I do not have a clear answer if white can actually draw.

1) 36...Bf3? is actually a dubious move. After 36...Rd4 (suggested by Ian Rogers) black would collect e5 and end up with 3 pawns against 2 on the kingside. I think it is much easier to handle that ending. It is clearly winning for black.
2) 47 Be6? is another dubious move. White should have kept the bishop on a4-e8 diagonal and force black to create "b" pawn rather than "a" pawn. As a general rule the larger is the distance between pawn islands the better it is for the side that trying to win.
3) 52 g4!... was suggested by Ng Clive (Mr ten knight moves) when the position was analysed by a few GMs and IMs. It did look like David Smerdon found the win eventually but now looking with a computer I am still unsure if there is a win there. For example, 52 g4 a3 53 Bg8 Kc5 54 Ke4 Kd5 55 Kf5, or 52 g4 a3 53 Bg8 g6 54 Kc2 and after Kb1 the white bishop attacks g6.

lost
26-04-2011, 12:54 AM
To organisers or arbiters,

Can we get some results for the Minor tournament of Doeberl Cup?

lost

Oepty
26-04-2011, 01:01 AM
To organisers or arbiters,

Can we get some results for the Minor tournament of Doeberl Cup?

lost

http://auschess.tornelo.com/tournaments/doeberl-cup--2 has the standings
Scott

antichrist
26-04-2011, 01:06 AM
so did Arthur Huynh win the Major for the second time. After winning previously that would not gain him entry into the premier division?

HydeParkPrince
26-04-2011, 01:27 AM
Yep!, Arthur needed the confidence that he was strong enough to play in the Premier ,finally over that hurdle!
@Vlad My performance rating was 2118 !! Surely I can apply for a promotion now?? I hate 10....:mad:

Kevin Bonham
26-04-2011, 01:41 AM
3) 52 g4!... was suggested by Ng Clive (Mr ten knight moves) when the position was analysed by a few GMs and IMs. It did look like David Smerdon found the win eventually but now looking with a computer I am still unsure if there is a win there. For example, 52 g4 a3 53 Bg8 Kc5 54 Ke4 Kd5 55 Kf5, or 52 g4 a3 53 Bg8 g6 54 Kc2 and after Kb1 the white bishop attacks g6.

In the first line instead of allowing 55 Kf5 black should play 54...g6. Now 55.Bf7 makes no threat and if it is played and white tries to make the threat real by returning his king to c2 then ...Kd6 followed by ...Ke7 forces the bishop away from attacking the g-pawn before there is time to take it. This gives black time to force his king to g5.

Another option for white after 52.g4 a3 53.Bg8 Kc5 54.Ke4 g6 is to attempt to retreat immediately by 55.Kd3 but after 55...Kd6 56.Kc2 Ke5 57.Bf7 Kf4! wins.

53...g6 with white's king still on d3 as in the second line above is a blunder as the white king is not yet far enough away from the a-pawn for ...g6 to work. g6 should be played specifically when the white king is on e4.

52.g4 is clearly the best try but I am still not convinced that it holds.

Kevin Bonham
26-04-2011, 02:08 AM
2) 47 Be6? is another dubious move. White should have kept the bishop on a4-e8 diagonal and force black to create "b" pawn rather than "a" pawn. As a general rule the larger is the distance between pawn islands the better it is for the side that trying to win.

Agreed. For instance applying the same ideas I gave above as in the 52.g4 line from the game, but with the pawn on the b-file, a position something like this might be reached (black to move in the line I had to reach this)

8/4b3/6pp/6k1/1p4P1/3K4/8/3B4 b - - 0 1

...and this looks drawn as the white king can now reach h1 if there is a pawn exchange on h5.

Vlad
26-04-2011, 10:09 AM
Yes, looks like both your assessments are correct: with "a" pawn it is lost for white, while with "b" pawn it is drawn. David had very similar ideas of how to win this ending, but I forgot them. :doh:

Garvinator
26-04-2011, 10:59 AM
When will the official site have its final results updated?

Charles
26-04-2011, 11:53 AM
When will the official site have its final results updated?

They are updated.

Garvinator
26-04-2011, 11:54 AM
They are updated.
:)

antichrist
26-04-2011, 02:38 PM
Is it true that the sixth round was delayed by 30 minutes because on one game running over time? I presume this is because of increment time. If so I think a very stupid result when could be avoided very easily by using traditional flagfall time.

Oepty
26-04-2011, 03:00 PM
Is it true that the sixth round was delayed by 30 minutes because on one game running over time? I presume this is because of increment time. If so I think a very stupid result when could be avoided very easily by using traditional flagfall time.

The sixth round was delayed by 30 minutes to allow the game between Johansen and Ly to finish. While having no increment would limit the total time of the game it would have meant that a lot of games would have been decided by who moved ever so slightly faster in the final couple of minutes of the game.
As far as options to have allowed the Major and Minor to have started on time while the Johansen -Ly game was on, I think that the noise created by starting the round and other things mean it was far better to wait until the game finished.
Scott

antichrist
26-04-2011, 03:07 PM
The sixth round was delayed by 30 minutes to allow the game between Johansen and Ly to finish. While having no increment would limit the total time of the game it would have meant that a lot of games would have been decided by who moved ever so slightly faster in the final couple of minutes of the game.

As far as options to have allowed the Major and Minor to have started on time while the Johansen -Ly game was on, I think that the noise created by starting the round and other things mean it was far better to wait until the game finished.
Scott

so there we have it a few hundred entrants were held up coz of one game and increment time. I have read that at high level, where those two guys are near to, that the same results are happening in spite of change to time controls, so it is only a facade of different results due to different time controls. The same person would be winning anyway. Thanks for nothing but thanks for your reply all the same. carry on and regards

Ian Rout
26-04-2011, 03:56 PM
Is it true that the sixth round was delayed by 30 minutes because on one game running over time? I presume this is because of increment time. If so I think a very stupid result when could be avoided very easily by using traditional flagfall time.
In fact this is only half the story. A further four days were wasted by the unnecessarily long time limit. By the use of the traditional all moves in five minutes the event could have been completed by 3:30 on Thursday afternoon.

Even better, the organisers could have implemented a negative time limit so that the tournament finished before it started, thereby eliminating the need for people to turn up at all.

Basil
26-04-2011, 04:06 PM
Ian, I do believe that's the most acerbic post I've ver seen from you! And not out of place if you don't mind my saying.

antichrist
26-04-2011, 07:22 PM
Ian, I do believe that's the most acerbic post I've ver seen from you! And not out of place if you don't mind my saying.

Listen Capt, you have read it wrong, he is being funny. But he has a point, we decided hundreds of dollars in the throw of a few coins yesterday at the RSL two up school, plus beers and a lot of laughs.

Tony Dowden
26-04-2011, 08:35 PM
Just back from the Doeberl Cup :cool:

Thanks to the organisers for an awesome event :clap: :clap: :clap:

And thanks to my various Mainlander opponents for some terrific games in the Premier :D

Best tip from the event: sac the exchange ;)

Oepty
26-04-2011, 08:44 PM
Listen Capt, you have read it wrong, he is being funny. But he has a point, we decided hundreds of dollars in the throw of a few coins yesterday at the RSL two up school, plus beers and a lot of laughs.

Two up at the Hellenic club yesterday was LOUD, then LOUD and then LOUD and then EXTREMELY LOUD

I was glad to be rid of the place with that going on.
Scott

Kevin Bonham
26-04-2011, 09:51 PM
I have read that at high level, where those two guys are near to, that the same results are happening in spite of change to time controls, so it is only a facade of different results due to different time controls.

Ah yes, another AC "I have read". Probably an unreliable source, or if it was a reliable source he's misunderstood it anyway. Completely useless.

Maybe without increments Johansen would have won that game anyway. Quite likely he would have won it more easily as Ly's position would not have even reached KR v KRB. But if it did reach KR v KRB the outcome would have been determined by the clock. If Darryl had been well ahead he would most likely have won whether he knew what he was doing or not. If he had been well behind he would not have had an opportunity to win - would have had to take a draw by 10.2 or else take a major risk of losing on time.

I see in the other place that Matthew Sweeney (who had a very poor event by the way, losing to four of the five 1100s that he played) is making a twit of himself by saying that the game should have been stopped and pretending FIDE would still rate it. I very greatly doubt FIDE would rate such a "game" and the ACF certainly wouldn't.

antichrist
26-04-2011, 10:23 PM
KB
Ah yes, another AC "I have read". Probably an unreliable source, or if it was a reliable source he's misunderstood it anyway. Completely useles

AC
another case of shooting the messenger coz you could not bother doing a bit of research yourself (where as if to disprove Dark Side you shine torches under every rock).

KB
I see in the other place that Matthew Sweeney (who had a very poor event by the way, losing to four of the five 1100s that he played) is making a twit of himself by saying that the game should have been stopped and pretending FIDE would still rate it. I very greatly doubt FIDE would rate such a "game" and the ACF certainly wouldn't

AC
Well Matt happened to provide an example or evidence why the game may have been rated and you dismiss it. His example was the FIDE-rated St George Comp years ago that I exposed as a bit fraudy. If not for myself that would have been rated by everyone and sundry but you arrogantly dismiss anything you don't like - like the truth.

that is what my complaint to FIDE was about - and was thoroughly deserved.

Kevin Bonham
26-04-2011, 10:33 PM
another case of shooting the messenger coz you could not bother doing a bit of research yourself

Well if you're saying you've done the research then quote it and state the source. Given that you continually misunderstand, misascribe and use unreliable sources your pretence to know what you're talking about - to even know what the message is, let alone that it is valid - can't be taken seriously.


Well Matt happened to provide an example or evidence why the game may have been rated and you dismiss it.

Because his example does not support his claim. FIDE required that the unplayed games be treated as double-forfeits and they were not rated. It's true that had FIDE never known the games were unplayed they could have been rated, but in the case of this Doeberl all it would have taken would be one report on here that a game was controversially stopped by the arbiters and that would have been the end of any chance of the "game" being FIDE rated.

Note: I am not going to allow you to trash this thread by turning it into an endless rehash of your views on (i) increments (ii) St George (iii) me. Any (more) rubbish and it all gets shifted to Off-Topic Bin.

Charles
27-04-2011, 09:07 AM
Hi all,

Just a final thank you to all that helped make it such a great tournament.

Firstly the players who came from all over the world. Our group of GM's was such a easy going group it was a pleasure to have them. We had a lovely dinner on the last night at my place.

Secondly Shaun, Charles Z and Scott C who made the tournament technically run and Ian and Cathy Rogers who provided outstanding commentary.

Nyssa who did all of the website support and videos.

Finally to Shun, Agus, Mirabelle and Jenny for sitting the score table for four days - your help was invaluable.

I had a number of people concerned that I would not be running the tournament next year. I can confirm our initial agreement was five years and that includes next year.

This will be the 50th and should be a cracker!

Davidflude
27-04-2011, 09:20 AM
How about increasing the number of rounds in the major to 9 next year. It is a long way to travel from Melbourne to canberra for seven rounds.

antichrist
27-04-2011, 10:50 AM
How about increasing the number of rounds in the major to 9 next year. It is a long way to travel from Melbourne to canberra for seven rounds.

david, taking into consideration my few posts above and the alternate format suggested I don't see why not, and good luck, a bit of good old listening to the consumer never goes astray.

Charles
27-04-2011, 01:20 PM
How about increasing the number of rounds in the major to 9 next year. It is a long way to travel from Melbourne to canberra for seven rounds.

Hi there,

We have already begun discussions regarding this about 3 months ago and a survey will be distributed shortly to players who have played in the last three years to see their thoughts on the subject.

aroniyang
01-05-2011, 09:25 PM
There is an interview with the 2011 Doeberl Cup winner, GM Andrei Deviatkin on www.chesscrazytalk.com, episode 4, on his thoughts about the tournaments and Australian chess!

Tan the Bdx Man
01-05-2011, 09:53 PM
Hi there,

We have already begun discussions regarding this about 3 months ago and a survey will be distributed shortly to players who have played in the last three years to see their thoughts on the subject.

I've played in the last two years, and in case i am not able to vote in this survey elsewhere i vote that it indeed be increased to 9 rounds


There is an interview with the 2011 Doeberl Cup winner, GM Andrei Deviatkin on www.chesscrazytalk.com, episode 4, on his thoughts about the tournaments and Australian chess!

Missed out on the Doeberl Cup? Along with wonderful coverage by GM Ian Rogers on the main site Pete&Kev also bring you an exciting round by round report of the tournament along with an interview with the tournament winner GM Andrei Deviatkin! Tune in for our best ep to date :)

Kevin Bonham
03-05-2011, 08:31 PM
Endgame expert GM Karsten Muller analyses Solomon-Steadman with reference to the "Troitzky Line" for determining whether KNN v KP is a forced win irrespective of king position or not. In this case the pawn has crossed the line so that "drawing and losing zones for the defending king exist".

http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7192

Tan the Bdx Man
19-06-2011, 11:05 AM
Where can i find games from this Doeberl cup?

ER
19-06-2011, 03:58 PM
Where can i find games from this Doeberl cup?


Here ;)

http://www.doeberlcup.com.au/results.shtml

Tan the Bdx Man
20-06-2011, 04:54 PM
Here ;)

http://www.doeberlcup.com.au/results.shtml

Thanks Jak, i checked that site but it doesn't seem to have all the games? And where could i find Major games

ER
20-06-2011, 09:35 PM
During the tournament I used to get them from the site! Now, you are OK some stuff is missing.
I know there is a data base somewhere that you can find results of all major Australian tournaments.
Maybe Barry, Bill or Kevin could be able to help.
I am sure, sooner or later you 'll get to the stuff you want. I 'll keep on having a look too!

OOPS here it is! :)
http://www.ozbase.com.au/

BTW this is from the ACF's website that Baron and some other Baronites use as a punching bag! :P