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Bill Gletsos
06-11-2010, 12:46 PM
When is the 2010 CV AGM scheduled for.

If the notice hasnt gone out already then given the 21 day requiremnet of the CV constitution the CV AGM once again will miss the last weekend in November.

Carl Gorka
07-11-2010, 08:35 PM
When is the 2010 CV AGM scheduled for.

If the notice hasnt gone out already then given the 21 day requiremnet of the CV constitution the CV AGM once again will miss the last weekend in November.

It is scheduled for Sunday November 28th.

Bill Gletsos
07-11-2010, 08:36 PM
It is scheduled for Sunday November 28th.Thanks.

ChessGuru
14-11-2010, 06:00 PM
The date has been set, but has the notice gone out? There is a difference.

I'm a member of CV and haven't received anything.

Spiny Norman
15-11-2010, 06:03 AM
Croydon received a letter last week to do with affiliation fees (which I received because I am the Treasurer), and in the letter it referred to:

"Annual General Meeting (November 28 at Melbourne Chess Club, starting time 4-30 pm)"

There may be some other kind of formal notification, however I presume that if there was it would have gone to either our Secretary or President.

ER
15-11-2010, 10:39 AM
Croydon received a letter last week to do with affiliation fees (which I received because I am the Treasurer), and in the letter it referred to:

"Annual General Meeting (November 28 at Melbourne Chess Club, starting time 4-30 pm)"

There may be some other kind of formal notification, however I presume that if there was it would have gone to either our Secretary or President.

I notice that at the same date and venue we have




http://chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=12495

THE
VICTORIAN BLITZ CHAMPIONSHIP
2010

Venue: Melbourne Chess Club, 66 Leicester Street, Fitzroy, 3065

Date: Sunday 28th November, 12 noon.

....

Starring: Reigning Victorian Blitz Champion, IM Leonid Sandler will be defending his title in this event.

along with the reigning Victorian Blitz Champion, IM Leonid Sandler :clap: :clap: :clap: who is also CV's Presiden there is also a No. of participants who for various reasons must be present at the AGM!

I don't know if the 4 1/2 hours provide sufficient time for the completion of the tournament, but I promise to do my best to finish my games much faster than the maximum 10 minute time control allotted for each one! (Psst I 've done it before ;) :lol: )

ChessGuru
21-11-2010, 04:40 PM
Clubs received official notice today of the 2010 CV AGM.

A dispute as to the validity of this meeting has been lodged based on the CV Rules:

1. Insufficient notice (requires 21 days notice)
2. Insufficient information (no financial statements, no budget, no auditor report)

What next? :(

ER
21-11-2010, 05:41 PM
Clubs received official notice today of the 2010 CV AGM.

A dispute as to the validity of this meeting has been lodged based on the CV Rules:

1. Insufficient notice (requires 21 days notice)
2. Insufficient information (no financial statements, no budget, no auditor report)

What next? :(

hmmm I don't know David, ask sobriquet maybe?

On the other hand, if the dispute is successful the 2010 CV AGM will be held in 2011 and Bill is waiting for such delays to give them a no-uncertain-terms-serve! Geez some people can't win, or can they?

Bill Gletsos
21-11-2010, 06:06 PM
Clubs received official notice today of the 2010 CV AGM.

A dispute as to the validity of this meeting has been lodged based on the CV Rules:

1. Insufficient notice (requires 21 days notice)
2. Insufficient information (no financial statements, no budget, no auditor report)

What next? :(The only requirement is the 21 day notice.
The items in 2 are not part of the notice but part of the AGM.

Spiny Norman
22-11-2010, 04:17 PM
A dispute as to the validity of this meeting has been lodged ...
... with ... who? With CV?

ER
23-11-2010, 07:55 PM
Whatever the case might be, it looks like interest about the whole AGM topic has waned. Nothing like last year's fiery exchanges and frantic behind the scenes negotiations. I know there is some movement in the station behind closed doors but according to my information (nothing more than hearsayish rumours at present) the whole thing has been pre-decided.

The leadership will remain more or less the same with the inclusion of a couple of new faces in the executive and in the committee.
There will be some noticeable movement in the Clubs front in co-operation with the coaches.

The huge plus of the present regime under the Presidency of Leonid Sandler is that despite diverse situations and untoward conditions the ship was kept steady.
The resignation of two members of the executive (one from the beginning of the term and one later on) as well as some pressure resulting from financial / logistical disagreements in the ACF / CV front was tackled rather successfully.
In the communication front apart from some laconic statements by the President himself and some rather lengthy and inconclusive grievances rather than reports by the very talented ex treasurer (his resignation is a huge loss for CV in my humble opinion) we had nothing.
Of course one cannot take seriously, the idiotic situation of a ghost reporter (namely Sobriquet) being given the responsibility of publishing important reports in one of the forums only (as if CV's affairs were an exlusive right for one base only).
Despite this isolationist and polarising situation which I am afraid if used by the Club communication / advertising network could have negative results in regards to events participation, CV events did well!

On the other hand one has to congratulate


The Clubs which used both forums in their advertising campaigns
The Forums which provided free space for promotion and discussion of those events.
Personalities such as Carl Gorka, Gerrit Hartland, Trevor Stanning, David Flude, just to name a few who stepped in during difficult times to offer a helping hand.


It would be a great neglect not to mention David Cordover's ideas and offers which as far as I know were rejected throughout the term. A website as prepared and offered by the ChessKids camp to CV, the lack of necessary promotion of On the Move magazine in the present (weak) CV website are just two of the examples of this unfair treatment. Leaving personalities like IM Robert Jamieson and David Cordover out of CV's headquarters is simply wrong!

Kevin Bonham
23-11-2010, 09:14 PM
Of course one cannot take seriously, the idiotic situation of a ghost reporter (namely Sobriquet) being given the responsibility of publishing important reports in one of the forums only (as if CV's affairs were an exlusive right for one base only).

Rather hard to know whether to laugh or cry about that one! In some cases it's the only way of finding out what isn't going on on particular issues on which the usage of normal channels of communication is for some reason all too hard. :eek:

Spiny Norman
24-11-2010, 03:55 PM
Unfortunately, due to the late notice (not meeting even the minimum 21 days notice required in the constitution), my club (Croydon) may end up unrepresented, as I understand the President, Vice-President and Treasurer (myself) are unable to attend due to prior commitments. Bit of a shamozzle. Might even end up having to lodge dispute ourselves if we're unable at short notice to round up some delegates who can represent us. Don't like the idea of being disenfranchised ... :eek:

ER
24-11-2010, 07:00 PM
The CV AGM was announced here by Fireeater answering Bill Gletsos' question exactly 21 days before its scheduled date.
It means that Carl Gorka knew this detail before or at least on the day he actually announced it.
Our, usually well informed, friend Sobriquet chose (surprise surprise) only one forum to make the announcement in a very MOZyishly oblique way four days later. (12/11/2010)
Why CV chose (if they did) Carl and Sobriquet to disclose this information, excluding other Clubs such as Croydon for example, is beyond me!
Unless, of course, neither Carl nor Sobriquet had been instructed from above
to announce the date and venue of AGM.
Maybe all they had to do was to visit CV's Website and find out about this information by themselves! Maybe...
However, is it enough for the President Leonid Sandler (MOZ for Christ sake give that sandman banality a miss) and his committee to rely on just a website posting instead of notifying the affiliated Clubs by means of a letter about the AGM?
After all we are talking about the most important administrational event - instrument of a serious organisation, aren't we?

Ian CCC
24-11-2010, 08:14 PM
Maybe all they had to do was to visit CV's Website and find out about this information by themselves! Maybe...


I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but I can't find notice of the 2010 AGM on the CV website. I found the minutes of the 2009 AGM, but nothing about the 2010 AGM.
Maybe.... I just don't know where to look.

ER
24-11-2010, 08:39 PM
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but I can't find notice of the 2010 AGM on the CV website. I found the minutes of the 2009 AGM, but nothing about the 2010 AGM.
Maybe.... I just don't know where to look.

Hi Ian, no I was not trying to be sarcastic at all.
Have a look here
http://chessvictoria.netfirms.com/
It's on the first page, in blue!

Garvinator
24-11-2010, 08:45 PM
Hi Ian, no I was not trying to be sarcastic at all.
Have a look herehttp://chessvictoria.netfirms.com/
It's on the first page, in blue!All that says is that there is an agm on. It does not contain any information about Agenda, election of officers, auditors report information or the like.

The only official notice is the one that is sent to the secretary of each affiliated club under the constitution. From what has been said on here, there is to be 21 days notice.

Ian CCC
24-11-2010, 08:57 PM
Hi Ian, no I was not trying to be sarcastic at all.
Have a look here
http://chessvictoria.netfirms.com/
It's on the first page, in blue!

Sorry JAK, blue is clearly not my colour!

ER
24-11-2010, 09:13 PM
Sorry JAK, blue is clearly not my colour!
LOL no worries mate, happens to me too! :)

Spiny Norman
25-11-2010, 08:06 AM
Giving notice of an AGM is typically done by writing a letter. Even a little club like Croydon manages to do that properly each year (Microsoft Word mail merges are not particularly difficult to organise). We hand them out to members at our end of year Presentation Night, and then those that didn't attend in person get them via mail a few days later when we post them to the address in the membership register.

Posting references to an AGM on a website, whether here or at CV, just doesn't cut the mustard, sorry. Relying on people to come to any website to get critical information isn't adequate from a procedural p.o.v.

This argy-bargy about AGM notifications/scheduling has happened now for a few years in a row. Not good enough. :(

Denis_Jessop
25-11-2010, 02:29 PM
FYI The CV Constitution provides as follows:


8.(1) The secretary shall, at least 21 days before the date fixed for holding a General Meeting cause to be sent to

each Member of the Association at his address appearing in the register of members, a notice by email

when available, or unless requested otherwise, by pre-paid post stating the place, date and time of the

meeting, but accidental omission to give notice shall not invalidate a meeting.

DJ

Carl Gorka
25-11-2010, 02:52 PM
It means that Carl Gorka knew this detail before or at least on the day he actually announced it.
Our, usually well informed, friend Sobriquet chose (surprise surprise) only one forum to make the announcement in a very MOZyishly oblique way four days later. (12/11/2010)
Why CV chose (if they did) Carl and Sobriquet to disclose this information, excluding other Clubs such as Croydon for example, is beyond me!
Unless, of course, neither Carl nor Sobriquet had been instructed from above to announce the date and venue of AGM.


I knew about the AGM because MCC are hosting the Victorian Blitz Championship scheduled the same day as the AGM. I was not appointed to tell anyone about this by CV, I just answered a question posed by Bill in this thread.

As secretary of the MCC I haven't yet received an 'official' notice of the AGM though Grant may have.

Bereaved
25-11-2010, 07:51 PM
FYI The CV Constitution provides as follows:



8.(1) The secretary shall, at least 21 days before the date fixed for holding a General Meeting cause to be sent to

each Member of the Association at his address appearing in the register of members, a notice by email

when available, or unless requested otherwise, by pre-paid post stating the place, date and time of the

meeting, but accidental omission to give notice shall not invalidate a meeting.


DJ


Hi Denis, and any other interested parties,

I am not an expert in such matters, so would welcome correction or comment in regard to this matter, but the above clause seems to refer to "a" person failing to receive notification, whereas in reality the official notification, to all delegates, was received by me via email on 21-11-10, the previously noted week's notice, rather than the constitutionally mentioned 21 days. So if no one receives notice in time, is that also a situation covered by the above clause?

Take care and God Bless, Macavity

ER
25-11-2010, 08:46 PM
Hi Denis, and any other interested parties,

I am not an expert in such matters, so would welcome correction or comment in regard to this matter, but the above clause seems to refer to "a" person failing to receive notification, whereas in reality the official notification, to all delegates, was received by me via email on 21-11-10, the previously noted week's notice, rather than the constitutionally mentioned 21 days. So if no one receives notice in time, is that also a situation covered by the above clause?

Take care and God Bless, Macavity

Hehe give Denis a paragraph in legal terms and he 'll take a volume! wait and see! :P :lol:

ChessGuru
25-11-2010, 09:02 PM
There is no question that the meeting was improperly called.

The real question is, do the members (clubs) care? So far there has been no response from CV about the improper calling of the meeting, nor the lack of financial statements, budget, last year's minutes etc. The silence appears to imply that they are planning to go ahead anyway.

I guess there are 2 options from here:
1. Club delegates from Geelong, Dandenong, Frankston, Ballarat, Bendigo etc drive an hour or more for the scheduled meeting which is declared invalid by the chairperson before it opens. Then they have to drive home again. :wall:

2. After the chairperson declares the meeting invalid the members boot him out of the chair and elect a new chairperson who allows the meeting to go ahead -- then the President brags about how much money his and his VP's businesses made from CV events this year, they promise to one day share with members how CV's finances are going and make a budget (not that they'll stick to it), then re-elect the same 1/2 committee and close.

There is a saying, that the people get the government they deserve. If clubs endorse the behaviour (by allowing it to happen) then nothing will ever change.

Bill Gletsos
25-11-2010, 10:09 PM
.... nor the lack of financial statements, budget, last year's minutes etc.So what. They are not part of the notice but part of the AGM.

Ninja
25-11-2010, 10:55 PM
I guess there are 2 options from here:
1. Club delegates from Geelong, Dandenong, Frankston, Ballarat, Bendigo etc drive an hour or more for the scheduled meeting which is declared invalid by the chairperson before it opens. Then they have to drive home again. :wall:

2. After the chairperson declares the meeting invalid the members boot him out of the chair and elect a new chairperson who allows the meeting to go ahead -- then the President brags about how much money his and his VP's businesses made from CV events this year, they promise to one day share with members how CV's finances are going and make a budget (not that they'll stick to it), then re-elect the same 1/2 committee and close.

Option 3; Common sense prevails;
The chairman acknowledges that the sending out of the notice was not done in a timely manner but presuming a quorum has been reached,(and in line with a sensible interpretation of the relevant section of the constitution "accidental omission to give notice shall not invalidate a meeting.") declares the meeting valid and the members who have taken the time to travel to the meeting then vote on the motions brought forward on the day and elect, from the available candidates, whom ever they consider would be the best candidates for next years committee.

I realise that "ChessGuru" may not have a lot of time in his life for common sense but I fail to see why he thinks he should be considered for CV president. David, try giving us details of just one thing you have done to support CV, and if that is possible, then try explaining why that should out weigh your continuous underhanded marketing and blatant undermining of anything CV tries to do?

Kevin Bonham
25-11-2010, 11:11 PM
I wonder what that "accidental omission" phrase really means. For instance, if someone is just plain slack/busy and forgetful, is that an "accident" or is that something more like negligence?

I understand that in general so long as the meeting outcomes still reflect the genuine will of the organisation then a procedural error such as failure to give due notice won't invalidate those outcomes, whether there is an "accidental omission" clause or not, and whether that clause is met or not.

Things only get interesting if late notice causes enough delegates to be absent that there is the real possibility that motions might have gone the other way had they been there.

Denis_Jessop
25-11-2010, 11:14 PM
Hehe give Denis a paragraph in legal terms and he 'll take a volume! wait and see! :P :lol:

I have no intention of becoming involved in discussion on this matter which is one for CV and its members. My post was factual to point out that the CV Constitution prescrbes e-mail notification as the preferred method whereas Spiny Norman had spoken of notification by letter as the usual.

DJ

ER
25-11-2010, 11:28 PM
I have no intention of becoming involved in discussion on this matter which is one for CV and its members. My post was factual to point out that the CV Constitution prescrbes e-mail notification as the preferred method whereas Spiny Norman had spoken of notification by letter as the usual.

DJ

:clap: Just wanted to see your reaction! :P

Garvinator
26-11-2010, 01:29 AM
Things only get interesting if late notice causes enough delegates to be absent that there is the real possibility that motions might have gone the other way had they been there.There is also the option that if enough clubs did not believe the AGM was held properly that they could organise a special general meeting according to the CV constitution.

Spiny Norman
26-11-2010, 04:14 AM
What will be interesting is if there's a close vote for election of the various committee positions ... if some clubs have been disenfranchised by the lack of notice, some of the losing candidates may be upset about let, so it may not just be a case of the clubs who are unable to attend having their noses out of joint.

ChessGuru
26-11-2010, 11:26 PM
your continuous underhanded marketing

U mean the Australiasian Masters? No, that's run and owned by Chess Australia, just financially supported by Chess Victoria?

Chess Australia the business that is, not to be confused with the Australian Chess Federation of whom Chess Victoria is a member. Chess Australia has no affiliation with Chess Victoria. Well, yes, Chess Australia is the President of Chess Victoria and both agreed to sponsor the Australasian Masters, but only for the Victorian Masters title, which is where the confusion might lie. The Victorian Masters was an event I created some time back to try and undermine anything and everything, but no, I no longer run it - Chess Victoria does, or Chess Australia... I think.

Hope that's clear.

antichrist
27-11-2010, 05:45 AM
U mean the Australiasian Masters? No, that's run and owned by Chess Australia, just financially supported by Chess Victoria?

Chess Australia the business that is, not to be confused with the Australian Chess Federation of whom Chess Victoria is a member. Chess Australia has no affiliation with Chess Victoria. Well, yes, Chess Australia is the President of Chess Victoria and both agreed to sponsor the Australasian Masters, but only for the Victorian Masters title, which is where the confusion might lie. The Victorian Masters was an event I created some time back to try and undermine anything and everything, but no, I no longer run it - Chess Victoria does, or Chess Australia... I think.

Hope that's clear.

You are finally admitting to the dirty deed - you scoundal.

HOw can an organisation or entity, as opposed to an individual/person be the president of an organisation? Have I read it correctly?

I never had any ulterior motives when iniating the Sydney Easter Cup. You Mexicans are more tricky, I will have to remember that.

ER
28-11-2010, 10:22 PM
CV AGM

A short unofficial report

CV President Mr Leonid Sandler invited me to be present in the CV AGM, to follow proceedings, speak if I wished to and publish whatever I wanted in either or both forums. Of course not being a delegate I had no right to vote. I thank him for this unique opportunity and I am writing this short unofficial report avoiding certain details (such as financial statements/reports etc) which I believe woud be more responsible to be presented by an appropriate authority.


Witnessing Russel De La Lande exercising his duties as a chairperson was a revelation in itself. He explained each and every aspect of the procedure including constitutional and legal parameters, starting from the beginning with sensitive matters such as validity of meetings and concluding with detailed aspects of nominations etc. It was an all round fine performance rather than a typical exercise of a chairperson’s duties. Thanks for the lesson Russel.

BTW during the procedure it was announced that Frankston Chess Club (of which Russel is the President and Malcolm Pyke the head coach) is now officially the second biggest Chess Club in Victoria. First is the Melbourne Chess Club and 3rd BHCC / CJCC (that’s in alphabetical order, not sure if BHCC or CJCC is larger).

Carl Gorka wasn’t present at the meeting. Trevor Stanning read his recommendations for next year’s Victorian Teams Competition which were accepted and applauded by all. I think it’s only fair for the particular document to be posted by the author (C.G) here and/or CV’s website.

I will not go ahead in publishing details about procedural matters, motions introduced etc, I will leave that for the meeting’s note taker (Trevor Stanning) who I presume will publish the minutes in CV’s website or other sources.


Some of the members of the new CV committee

Leonid Sandler - President
Darryl Johansen - V/ President
David Hacche - Secretary
Trevor Stanning - Treasurer
Kerry Stead - member of executive Committee

Friendly and constructive atmosphere prevailed throughout the meeting. There were not confrontations and the debated issues took place in a most orderly and mutually respectful manner

For a complete line-up of the new CV committee and other details, please go to CV’s website where details of the AGM will be published.

Carl Gorka
30-11-2010, 08:16 PM
Carl Gorka wasnít present at the meeting. Trevor Stanning read his recommendations for next yearís Victorian Teams Competition which were accepted and applauded by all. I think itís only fair for the particular document to be posted by the author (C.G) here and/or CVís website.


Yes, apologies for not making it there, I was working and catching some horrid gastro thingy from someone or other. These were the points I wanted raising. I'll also post them to the tournament thread.

1. All round robin divisions: all fixtures known before the season starts.
2. First round in a single venue as well as last round.
3. Different time control...30 second increment.
4. A tournament manager/management team needed. I'm prepared to be part of this next year.
5. More information to be distributed directly to the clubs/teams as averse to on websites.
6. Regular notices to be distributed to all team managers.
7. Efficient team registration needed
8. Penalty procedure for forfeits need to be examined.

ER
30-11-2010, 09:07 PM
Yes, apologies for not making it there, I was working and catching some horrid gastro thingy from someone or other.
I wish you a speedy recovery. Been there done that with gastgro thingies. I suggest you have proper medical tests because you might need an antibiotics course to make sure everything is cleared. Some times gastros can cause further problems!


These were the points I wanted raising. I'll also post them to the tournament thread.

I have responded in the other thread! :)