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Cat
05-09-2004, 10:08 PM
Thanks JimF!

What a great institution. A great day, a report card from my youngest, mostly A+'s I'm amazed to say, C+ for cleaning & gardening. My teenager was a little less generous, but I still got a B for coolness, amazingly! He usually tell's me I'm a geek, maybe he was being kind. He also gave me an A+ for smartness and an A+ for idiotness.

Then to church - what a great service, string's, choir, kid's acting out all with happy faces, and a round of applause for all the Dad's! Pure schmaltz. I loved it.

Great breakfast, bike ride & Dennis Potter's The Singing Detective DVD as a present.

What a great religious festival - thank God for Father's Day!

Alan Shore
05-09-2004, 10:14 PM
What a great religious festival - thank God for Father's Day!

Religious festival? :eh:

Cat
05-09-2004, 10:17 PM
Religious festival? :eh:

Absolutely, firmly rooted in the Christian tradition. Who knows, it may even have a Pagan antecedant.

Rincewind
05-09-2004, 11:13 PM
Absolutely, firmly rooted in the Christian tradition. Who knows, it may even have a Pagan antecedant.

I was speaking with a German last week who told me they celebrated Fathers' Day on the Feast of the Ascension. Although I wasn't aware of any particular religious significance to Fathers' Day as we celebrate it.

Of course there are some quotable quotes in the "good" book along the lines of respecting the olds but I imagine the celebration of Fathers' Day in the modern sense is a particularly recent tradition benig sponsored by sellers of hardware and men's apparel.

PHAT
05-09-2004, 11:25 PM
Barry, in case you didn't know, it is you and me on Tuesday night - not. I have a Fathers Day shindig with the boy. So, can you lose on Wed or some other time/place of your chosing? BTW, you need to win for 3rd, I need it win for 1st :evil:

Cat
06-09-2004, 12:11 AM
I was speaking with a German last week who told me they celebrated Fathers' Day on the Feast of the Ascension. Although I wasn't aware of any particular religious significance to Fathers' Day as we celebrate it.

Of course there are some quotable quotes in the "good" book along the lines of respecting the olds but I imagine the celebration of Fathers' Day in the modern sense is a particularly recent tradition benig sponsored by sellers of hardware and men's apparel.

You cynic you. The oldest reference I can find is to an ancient Greek festival called 'Apaturia', a pagan festival where fathers presented their newborn legitimate children to the community.

Rincewind
06-09-2004, 04:11 PM
Barry, in case you didn't know, it is you and me on Tuesday night - not. I have a Fathers Day shindig with the boy. So, can you lose on Wed or some other time/place of your chosing? BTW, you need to win for 3rd, I need it win for 1st :evil:

OK. Wednesday is not good for me as I have tutoring but Thursday is do-able. You've have beaten me once, I don't count on losing again anytime soon. :P Better third with a 8/9 score any anything less. ;)

BTW if I beat you and Zeljko beats Martin I could very easily wind up fourth, with 8/9!!!

Rincewind
06-09-2004, 04:17 PM
You cynic you. The oldest reference I can find is to an ancient Greek festival called 'Apaturia', a pagan festival where fathers presented their newborn legitimate children to the community.

Hardly sounds like the same thing. Also I think you would need to show some continuity to the present tradition to make a convincing argument.

PS, not cynical, just skeptical. The difference is significant.

Cat
06-09-2004, 06:29 PM
Hardly sounds like the same thing. Also I think you would need to show some continuity to the present tradition to make a convincing argument.

PS, not cynical, just skeptical. The difference is significant.
Ceremonies celebrating the position of the father in the community go back to antiquity. They vary in their form. This was the just earliest reference I could find to this kind of ceremony.

Rincewind
06-09-2004, 06:40 PM
Ceremonies celebrating the position of the father in the community go back to antiquity. They vary in their form. This was the just earliest reference I could find to this kind of ceremony.

To be frank the presentation of legitimate children to the community is a ceremony which is more about the child than it is about the father. This would be similar to the christian tradition of baptism and other rites of passage into adulthood and is hardly equatable to Fathers' Day at all.

Cat
06-09-2004, 06:57 PM
To be frank the presentation of legitimate children to the community is a ceremony which is more about the child than it is about the father. This would be similar to the christian tradition of baptism and other rites of passage into adulthood and is hardly equatable to Fathers' Day at all.

Well, its all about community isn't it? Really Father's day today is as much about the kids, if not more so, than it is about the Dad's.

Rincewind
06-09-2004, 08:17 PM
Well, its all about community isn't it? Really Father's day today is as much about the kids, if not more so, than it is about the Dad's.

That's a pretty weak argument you have to admit. Most rituals based in the community. Your job is to show Father's Day has a pagan antecedent in antiquity. In fact, I'd be prepared to accept any reference, christian or pagan, prior to the Industrial Revolution.

Cat
07-09-2004, 08:36 AM
That's a pretty weak argument you have to admit. Most rituals based in the community. Your job is to show Father's Day has a pagan antecedent in antiquity. In fact, I'd be prepared to accept any reference, christian or pagan, prior to the Industrial Revolution.

Oh I have a job now! Gee thanks BJC. The history of Fathers Day - look there are other novels to write.

Rincewind
07-09-2004, 03:16 PM
Oh I have a job now! Gee thanks BJC. The history of Fathers Day - look there are other novels to write.

Don't put the cart before the horse - first the research, then you write the book.

Also I wasn't hoping for a novel, that format is most appropriate for works of fiction. Whereas I was hoping for something with a Dewey Decimal classification, preferably somewhere in the 900's. ;)