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themovingman
18-09-2010, 01:15 AM
The 16th and 17th October is when this will happen

http://gosfordchess.com/Previous/2010/GosfordOpen2010Advert.htm

note that this is a DRAFT - until any typos have been proofread, drawn out an d killed etc

Garvinator
18-09-2010, 01:30 AM
Being a GP event, the forfeit time should be 30 mins, not 60.

themovingman
19-09-2010, 06:04 PM
Ta - default time now fixed at 30 minutes - much obliged for catching that

Trent Parker
24-09-2010, 10:15 PM
Ta - default time now fixed at 30 minutes - much obliged for catching that

ggray I could be wrong but I believe it is the discretion of the arbiter to determine the forfeiture time.

and with themovingman being the arbiter I believe he can set it to whatever he pleases.......

Garvinator
24-09-2010, 10:33 PM
ggray I could be wrong but I believe it is the discretion of the arbiter to determine the forfeiture time.

and with themovingman being the arbiter I believe he can set it to whatever he pleases.......Not according to ACF GP rules. All GP's must be 30 minutes.

Bill Gletsos
24-09-2010, 11:17 PM
ggray I could be wrong but I believe it is the discretion of the arbiter to determine the forfeiture time.As Garvin said, if it an ACF GP event it must be 30 minutes.

Trent Parker
29-09-2010, 05:59 PM
ok my mistake!

Alana
04-10-2010, 08:59 PM
Possibly going to play in this one! Should be fun :)

themovingman
14-10-2010, 12:04 PM
bump - fairly soon now, not THAT many early entries (but many more than in previous years)

Trent Parker
14-10-2010, 12:42 PM
I'm playing and I'm bringing a bug with me! And I'm not talking about Lance chiddy!

Nah I should be fine by tomorrow doc says! lol

Alana
14-10-2010, 03:41 PM
Ok I will definitely be there but I have not paid yet - will enter on the day.

themovingman
17-10-2010, 10:52 PM
ALL prizes paid as advertised - in fact more, since there were a few extra divisions (well - one extra being an unrated division)

Senior Lloyd Fell Shield went to Zulkfili Mat-Arif
Junior Lloyd Fell Shield went to Nicholas Brown



No Name Loc Total 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

1 Vladimir Smirnov 2280 6 19:1 11:1 10:1 0:= 3:1 2:= 6:1
2 Blair Mandla 1988 5.5 24:1 15:1 6:1 4:0 10:1 1:= 8:1
3 Herman Rachmadi 1664 5.5 26:1 16:1 4:1 0:= 1:0 14:1 9:1
4 Tristan Stevens 2004 5 17:1 5:1 3:0 2:1 6:0 15:1 10:1
5 Trent Parker 1510 4.5 29:1 4:0 19:1 7:= 11:0 16:1 17:1
6 Mat-Arif Zulkifli 1462 4.5 21:1 9:1 2:0 11:1 4:1 8:= 1:0
7 Gary Losh 1412 4.5 22:1 10:0 13:1 5:= 17:1 9:0 11:1
8 Christopher Skulte 1772 4.5 20:1 12:1 0:= 0:= 9:1 6:= 2:0
9 Andrew Furst 1953 4 25:1 6:0 14:1 15:1 8:0 7:1 3:0
10 Anton Smirnov 1916 4 30:1 7:1 1:0 12:1 2:0 20:1 4:0
11 Alana Chibnall 1588 4 28:1 1:0 18:1 6:0 5:1 12:1 7:0
12 Norman Greenwood 1389 4 23:1 8:0 26:1 10:0 13:1 11:0 19:1
13 Nicholas Brown 4 15:0 24:1 7:0 19:1 12:0 27:1 22:1
14 Badar Zoud 4 18:1 17:= 9:0 25:1 16:1 3:0 15:=
15 Alex Mehan 1495 3.5 13:1 2:0 20:1 9:0 23:1 4:0 14:=
16 Michael J Tracey 1359 3.5 27:1 3:0 22:1 0:= 14:0 5:0 20:1
17 Neil Clark 1191 3.5 4:0 14:= 21:1 18:1 7:0 26:1 5:0
18 Paul Envis 1281 3 14:0 29:1 11:0 17:0 25:1 22:0 27:1
19 Mary E Wilkie 1214 3 1:0 28:1 5:0 13:0 24:1 23:1 12:0
20 Helen Aylwin 922 3 8:0 23:1 15:0 21:1 26:1 10:0 16:0
21 Joshua Brown 3 6:0 25:1 17:0 20:0 27:0 24:1 29:1
22 Andrew Clark 3 7:0 30:1 16:0 26:0 28:1 18:1 13:0
23 Nick Fernandez 3 12:0 20:0 30:1 29:1 15:0 19:0 26:1
24 Hugh Winsor 1108 2.5 2:0 13:0 28:1 0:= 19:0 21:0 30:1
25 Bernie Accola 1007 2.5 9:0 21:0 29:1 14:0 18:0 30:= 28:1
26 Lance Chiddy 890 2 3:0 27:1 12:0 22:1 20:0 17:0 23:0
27 Luke Joseph 2 16:0 26:0 0:= 0:= 21:1 13:0 18:0
28 Tom Accola 827 1.5 11:0 19:0 24:0 30:= 22:0 29:1 25:0
29 Alex Momot 791 1 5:0 18:0 25:0 23:0 30:1 28:0 21:0
30 Bill Hoseman 1002 1 10:0 22:0 23:0 28:= 29:0 25:= 24:0

Alexrules01
18-10-2010, 12:37 PM
I had the worst draw :(
Quite annoying actually... was hoping to play people 100-200 above my rating

Vlad
18-10-2010, 01:31 PM
I had the worst draw :(
Quite annoying actually... was hoping to play people 100-200 above my rating

I think you had the best draw possible. I wish I could play Kramnik, Anand and Carlsen in a weekender but they will never come to Gosford. :(

Garvinator
18-10-2010, 01:47 PM
I think you had the best draw possible. I wish I could play Kramnik, Anand and Carlsen in a weekender but they will never come to Gosford. :(That might be ok for you, who is 2300 or so, but for players who are 1400 or less, getting three players above 1800 and then four players unrated or less than a 1000 is just a complete waste of a weekend, time and money.

If I understand who alexrules01, then that is exactly what draw he copped.He could have played quite a few players who were around his rating, but due to the field and the swiss system, he instead of spends the whole weekend doing the yo-yo.

I can only give two pieces of advice, one to organisers and one to players.

To players:

If you do not like playing in weekenders where all you do is yo-yo all tournament long, tell the organisers that you are not playing in their tournament because of this factor, or at least it is a key decision overall.

To organisers:

Running a standard open swiss when fields are made up of players from 2400 to unrated with everything in between is going to result in a lot of mismatched games and not a lot of enjoyable, competitive games for those in the mid field.

Design your tournament so this is avoided, either by using two divisions, or using acceleration.

Alexrules01, you have now experienced how unappealing these type of tournaments are to play in. I would suggest you avoid them in the future.

Vlad
18-10-2010, 01:59 PM
I would strongly disagree on the assessment of the opposition. Badar Zoud, even though unrated, should be at least 1500. Nicholas Brown scored 4 points, which means he is also a reasonable 1400. So all in all, 3 opponents are much higher, 2 are similar strength and 2 are weaker. That seems completely reasonable outcome for somebody who is in the middle of the table.

Garvinator
18-10-2010, 02:05 PM
I would strongly disagree on the assessment of the opposition. Badar Zoud, even though unrated, should be at least 1500. Nicholas Brown scored 4 points, which means he is also a reasonable 1400. So all in all, 3 opponents are much higher, 2 are similar strength and 2 are weaker. That seems completely reasonable outcome for somebody who is in the middle of the table.But you do not know this before the tournament begun. Alex could have just as easily received three genuine unrateds and in most tournaments this is exactly what he would have gotten.

Another question, was any information known about these unrated players. If so, then it is arbiters responsibility to give them a provisional rating so they are seeded in the tournament, rather than being left as unrateds.

Btw, you might have disagreed with my assessment of Alex's opposition as it was known after the tournament, but you have not disagreed with the general principle of my post, which is the key point.

Trent Parker
18-10-2010, 02:09 PM
I have never read so much BS!



To players:

If you do not like playing in weekenders where all you do is yo-yo all tournament long, tell the organisers that you are not playing in their tournament because of this factor, or at least it is a key decision overall.

I think if everyone of those middle level players thought like this there would be no country tournaments what so ever.

Higher rated players are a challenge to play. Should improve ones game. play an unrated/ beginner/low rated player then analyse to show where they went wrong so that they can possibly improve their game.


To organisers:

Running a standard open swiss when fields are made up of players from 2400 to unrated with everything in between is going to result in a lot of mismatched games and not a lot of enjoyable, competitive games for those in the mid field.

Design your tournament so this is avoided, either by using two divisions, or using acceleration.

Doesn't the acceleration basically lead to round three as being the "junk" round?

As for using two divisions I dont think gosford had enough players to divisionalise the tournament.

The only way I can see this definitely not happening is to restrict entries to, say, under 2000 but I think this tournament needs more numbers and not to restrict the potential numbers.


Alexrules01, you have now experienced how unappealing these type of tournaments are to play in. I would suggest you avoid them in the future.

Alexrules01 you have played plenty of these types of tournaments before... you might have just got unlucky with this one.

And garvo, being a country boy, I think if he gave up these types of tournaments we could see Alex leave chess.

Alexrules01
18-10-2010, 02:55 PM
I think you had the best draw possible. I wish I could play Kramnik, Anand and Carlsen in a weekender but they will never come to Gosford. :(
Playing them would be good :)
I don't mind playing the tougher guys, i would have enjoyed playing you Vlad as I think I had a winning advantage against Blair and played well against Andrew Furst... but would have been nice to play say Trent, Herman or even Anton.

Just a bit bummed playing 3 unrated players who were reasonable players and a 900. Then 3 guys rated nearly 2000 in between

I won't be giving up these types of tournaments at all though, as Trent said there the only tournaments i really get!

Alexrules01
18-10-2010, 03:04 PM
Also just want to clarify I still had an enjoyable tournament, just the draw didn't go the way I wanted it too.

Congratulations on winning Vlad! That last game of yours looked pretty crushing! And excellent result Trent... You've been in great for lately!

The Bennett
18-10-2010, 03:05 PM
This topic is quite interesting because both sides have some good points. I agree with Alex and Garv in the sense that mid level players say around 1300-1600 cop a lot of bad draws from weekenders due to them being in the middle of the pack. However I agree with Trent and Vlad in that playing people who are above 2000 is a challenge and a very good learning experience. I think we should all just say that there are upsides and downsides to the the swiss perfect system, both of which should be accepted by all players using the system.

My question is actually whether there is a new and improved system which could make the draws a little bit fairer. Cause I'm pretty sure the big international tournaments such as world champs don't use swiss perfect.

This is only my opinion so you may of course disagree which I don't mind cause its a free country and we're all entitled to have one :)

Cheers,
MB

Alexrules01
18-10-2010, 03:14 PM
This topic is quite interesting because both sides have some good points. I agree with Alex and Garv in the sense that mid level players say around 1300-1600 cop a lot of bad draws from weekenders due to them being in the middle of the pack. However I agree with Trent and Vlad in that playing people who are above 2000 is a challenge and a very good learning experience. I think we should all just say that there are upsides and downsides to the the swiss perfect system, both of which should be accepted by all players using the system.

My question is actually whether there is a new and improved system which could make the draws a little bit fairer. Cause I'm pretty sure the big international tournaments such as world champs don't use swiss perfect.

This is only my opinion so you may of course disagree which I don't mind cause its a free country and we're all entitled to have one :)

Cheers,
MB
I agree Bennet. I found playing the guys around 2000 very rewarding, but I can't believe I got one after each win I had (and 3/6 of the unrated players)! Still i can learn some things from all 3 of those games (like my silly opening against Tristan!)