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Bill Gletsos
28-11-2009, 08:18 PM
The 2009 NSWCA AGM was held earlier today.

The NSWCA Council for 2010 is:


President Peter Parr
Vice President Bill Gletsos
Secretary Tom Accola
Treasurer Norm Greenwood
Registrar Peter Cassettari
Tournaments Officer Lou Damaschino
Ratings Officer` Barry Cox
Publicity Officer Vacant
Club Liason Shane Burgess
Country Rep Keith Farrell
Communications Officer Laura Moylan
Webmaster Vacant
Member without portfolio Brett Tindall
NSWJCL Rep Richard Gastineau-Hills
NSWCA fees remain the same as last year.
These are specifically:

The standard NSW membership fee (including the club affiliation fee) is $30.
The concessional membership rate is $20.
Country membership is $10.
The membership fee for those that have never been a member of the NSWCA is $10

The Non Member - Registered player fee that entitles the player to have all their games for NSW based non NSWCA events to be rated but have no voting rights and cannot play in NSWCA events (which includes Grade Matches and ACF events) is $10.

The NSWCA announced a profit of $11,683 which was an increase of $2,322 over the previous year.

george
28-11-2009, 11:00 PM
Hi All,
Congratulations to all the NSW office holders for the forthcoming year.

Bill as you are no longer President of NSWCA does this mean you will be posting more often on this BB where your posts have been few and far between:) .

Congrats Bill on doing a difficult job over the last few years - being Pres has many many headaches most of which few people understand.

Ciao

Desmond
29-11-2009, 08:44 AM
Good luck in the top job Peter Parr!

Brian_Jones
29-11-2009, 09:02 AM
In the vote for NSWCA President, Peter Parr brought with him a bunch of followers (grumpy old men?) and successfully defeated Bill Gletsos 17-11. :eek:

For the information of chess players outside NSW, Peter Parr is the proprietor of Chess Discount Sales and Brett Tindall/Laura Moylan are associated with Sydney Academy of Chess. The other nine councillors have no known affiliation with any chess business! :uhoh:

All eyes now turn to Melbourne for the CV AGM this afternoon! :)

ChessGuru
29-11-2009, 10:32 AM
In the vote for NSWCA President, Peter Parr brought with him a bunch of followers (grumpy old men?) and successfully defeated Bill Gletsos 17-11. :eek:

Good work Peter, nice to see the majority of NSW voters know what's good for the future.

Winds of change. :)

Rincewind
29-11-2009, 11:25 AM
Good work Peter, nice to see the majority of NSW voters know what's good for the future.

Regardless of whether Bill or Peter won the fact is an association of something like 600 members were represented at the AGM by around 5% of total membership. Thus the majority of voters didn't even bother to turn up to the AGM!*

All other positions were filled unopposed so I suspect had Peter's nomination for President been unsuccessful then he would have been elected VP with no other change to the make up of the council.

(I should note having been a member for several years this is the first AGM I have attended).

Bill Gletsos
29-11-2009, 12:09 PM
In the vote for NSWCA President, Peter Parr brought with him a bunch of followers (grumpy old men?) and successfully defeated Bill Gletsos 17-11. :eek:Yes Peter signed up 5 mates on the day.

Stephen Kerr - last played a rated OTB game of chess in December 1991.
Jason Lyons - last played a rated OTB game of chess in July 1994.
Joe Reif - last played a rated OTB game of chess in June 2003.
Max Fuller - last played a rated OTB game of chess in December 2005.
Patrick Halpin - last played a rated OTB game of chess in October 2006.

Bill Gletsos
29-11-2009, 12:09 PM
Winds of change. :)Other than Peter Parr and Lou Damaschino all other Council members for 2010 were Council members in 2009.

Also unlike the CV Constitution which gives total power to the CV President between CV Executive meetings, the NSWCA Constitution gives the Decision making power between Council meetings to the NSWCA Executive (President, Vice President, Secretary and Treasurer).

Constitutionally the NSWCA Council is required to have at least 10 meetings per year, however in practice it turns out to be 11, held toward the end of each month except November.

By contrast the CV Constitution has no requirements for the CV Executive to ever hold any Executive meetings. :hmm: :doh: :whistle: :hand:

CameronD
29-11-2009, 12:27 PM
Wouldnt the CAQ model be better where clubs have the votes (based on membership numbers) and not individual members.

Basil
29-11-2009, 12:32 PM
Wouldnt the CAQ model be better where clubs have the votes (based on membership numbers) and not individual members.
The CAQ's model is ace IMO.

Adamski
29-11-2009, 01:19 PM
Regardless of whether Bill or Peter won the fact is an association of something like 600 members were represented at the AGM by around 5% of total membership. Thus the majority of voters didn't even bother to turn up to the AGM!*

All other positions were filled unopposed so I suspect had Peter's nomination for President been unsuccessful then he would have been elected VP with no other change to the make up of the council.

(I should note having been a member for several years this is the first AGM I have attended).Congratulations to all those elected (and to Barry for attending).

One point I would make is that the last 2 NSWCA AGMs at least have been held at Rooty Hill. I couldn't have made it yesterday wherever it was held, as I was performing at the time, but it does seem time that it was held north of the bridge in 2010. Maybe at norths or Manly?

Bill Gletsos
29-11-2009, 01:40 PM
Wouldnt the CAQ model be better where clubs have the votes (based on membership numbers) and not individual members.The NSWCA long ago ditched the club based model.

Desmond
29-11-2009, 01:53 PM
Wouldnt the CAQ model be better where clubs have the votes (based on membership numbers) and not individual members.It is true that the CAQ model would have prevented this signing members up on the day to vote nonsense, but it does allow the possibility of other avenues of manipulation. Eg fudging club numbers.

ER
29-11-2009, 02:02 PM
... Eg fudging club numbers.
Club members as well as Club numbers maybe?

CameronD
29-11-2009, 02:18 PM
It is true that the CAQ model would have prevented this signing members up on the day to vote nonsense, but it does allow the possibility of other avenues of manipulation. Eg fudging club numbers.

Im probably wrong, but doesnt the members have to be CAQ members to count for the club.

Kevin Bonham
29-11-2009, 02:21 PM
I chaired a community organisation AGM a few years ago (as independent guest chair) where there was an attempt by one side to sign up dozens of new members on the night. However the organisation's constitution had very clear requirements that members could only vote if they had had their membership applications approved at a previous meeting; it wasn't possible to show up on the day, sign up and immediately vote. So I had a roll of members who were entitled to vote and there were a number of people there not on the roll who wanted to vote. I allowed the would-be stackers to move a motion that if passed would have directed the committee to process the fresh membership applications prior to the elections, however of course only the existing members could vote on this motion (which was dubiously constitutional anyway) and it was defeated.

From what Bill and Brian says it doesn't look like those joining on the day swung the vote so much as increasing the margin.

Rincewind
29-11-2009, 02:50 PM
The NSWCA long ago ditched the club based model.

It is interesting that without rules ensuring club stacking, the council is still made up from a number of people from quite a number of clubs, Paramatta, Norths, Manly, Ryde-Eastwood, Rooty Hill, etc. St George is a notable exception but they just need to put up some reps. :)

Desmond
29-11-2009, 02:53 PM
Club members as well as Club numbers maybe?
Club membership numbers.

Kevin Bonham
29-11-2009, 02:55 PM
Interesting that Peter got himself elected as President but the council is otherwise unchanged. I wonder how much of his agenda (if any) he will be able to implement.

antichrist
29-11-2009, 03:10 PM
Regardless of whether Bill or Peter won the fact is an association of something like 600 members were represented at the AGM by around 5% of total membership. Thus the majority of voters didn't even bother to turn up to the AGM!*

All other positions were filled unopposed so I suspect had Peter's nomination for President been unsuccessful then he would have been elected VP with no other change to the make up of the council.

(I should note having been a member for several years this is the first AGM I have attended).

Considering I am a paid up member (as far as I know coz no receipt) I did not even know of the meeting taking place so how could I have participated. I did not receive any notice????????????????

antichrist
29-11-2009, 03:11 PM
Yes Peter signed up 5 mates on the day.

Stephen Kerr - last played a rated OTB game of chess in December 1991.
Jason Lyons - last played a rated OTB game of chess in July 1994.
Joe Reif - last played a rated OTB game of chess in June 2003.
Max Fuller - last played a rated OTB game of chess in December 2005.
Patrick Halpin - last played a rated OTB game of chess in October 2006.


But look at their rating history - at least for a few of them. I would have voted for Peter if I had know what was happening - just for a change without taking into consideration anything else. We know he is certainly solid enough and has the runs on the board. I reakon Ilic would have refused to come along.

Bill Gletsos
29-11-2009, 03:14 PM
Considering I am a paid up member (as far as I know coz no receipt) I did not even know of the meeting taking place so how could I have participated. I did not receive any notice????????????????You are not a member.

bergil
29-11-2009, 03:18 PM
Considering I am a paid up member (as far as I know coz no receipt) I did not even know of the meeting taking place so how could I have participated. I did not receive any notice????????????????All members were sent in the mail a flyer for both the AGM and the Lightning. If you are a member and didn't get it then contact either Secretary Tom Accola secretary@nswca.org.au or Registrar Peter Cassettari registrar@nswca.org.au and confirm your home address for the mail outs.

Bill Gletsos
29-11-2009, 03:22 PM
All memebers were sent in the mail a flyer for both the AGM and the Lightning. If you are a member and didn't get it then contact either Secretary Tom Accola secretary@nswca.org.au or Registrar Peter Cassettari registrar@nswca.org.au and confirm your home address for the mail outs.He isnt a member and has not been for a number of years.

Basil
29-11-2009, 03:23 PM
Wouldnt the CAQ model be better where clubs have the votes (based on membership numbers) and not individual members.

The NSWCA long ago ditched the club based model.
Apart from not answering Cameron's question (which wasn't asked of you, but you quoted his question), does your answer contain an imputation that the present NSW is a better one, having moved on from the suggested format?

Regardless, do you know the reason for changing systems?

Bill Gletsos
29-11-2009, 03:32 PM
Apart from not answering Cameron's question (which wasn't asked of you, but you quoted his question), does your answer contain an imputation that the present NSW is a better one, having moved on from the suggested format?Both formats have their advantages and disadvantages but I believe the current format is better.

Regardless, do you know the reason for changing systems?Before my time but I was told it was felt that club representation was not necessarily indicative of who the majority.
e.g. a club block votes even though its members may well be split almost 50-50 on who to vote for or that members of a club generally couldnt care less but the Executive members of the club are mates with a specific person.

Bill Gletsos
29-11-2009, 03:37 PM
It is true that the CAQ model would have prevented this signing members up on the day to vote nonsense, but it does allow the possibility of other avenues of manipulation. Eg fudging club numbers.Ideally the membership list should be frozen 14 days prior to the AGM in line with who should be sent notices of the AGM meeting.

This would be no different to company AGM's where notices are sent based on shareholding xxx days prior to the AGM. If someone becomes a shareholder after that date they dont get a vote at the AGM.

Basil
29-11-2009, 03:41 PM
Before my time but I was told it was felt that club representation was not necessarily indicative of who the majority.
e.g. a club block votes even though its members may well be split almost 50-50 on who to vote for or that members of a club generally couldn't care less but the Executive members of the club are mates with a specific person.
Yes. Under these circumstances, what you say is true. However, in these same circumstances, the alternative and present NSW system suffers the same problem.

peter_parr
30-11-2009, 11:00 AM
Firstly I would like to thank all those who have sent me emails on my appointment as President of the NSWCA.

The statement that yes Peter signed up 5 mates on the day is false. The membership forms of each of the five members given to the NSWCA registrar are clearly dated as are the receipts issued for the 5 cash payments of memberships, the cheque made out by me is clearly dated as is the summary of new members given by myself to the treasurer.

Chess Discount Sales has for a long time collected NSWCA membership fees and when convenient I later pass on the membership forms and fees to the registrar and treasurer. I passed on these memberships when I saw the treasurer at Rooty Hill well before the meeting.

None of the five mentioned by Gletsos joined on the day of the meeting - I had not even seen some of the five as they arranged their own travel. I well recall a few years ago when another possible presidential candidate was present that Gletsos made a firm decision (which I agreed with) that new NSWCA memberships could be received up to the exact time of the beginning of the meeting. What is the problem?

The 2009 NSWCA AGM was held for the third consecutive year in the far distant Western Suburbs at Rooty Hill - convenient for a few (a stone’s throw from outback Riverstone).

Personally I found quite a large number of members did not want to travel so far for the lightning or AGM. It is a requirement for all players in the NSW lightning to be a full member of NSWCA. If 40 new players turned up on the day of the AGM and played in the lightning they would pay their membership on the same day as attending the AGM - so what is the problem?


In the vote for NSWCA President, Peter Parr brought with him a bunch of followers (grumpy old men?) and successfully defeated Bill Gletsos 17-11.

Well Brian - if it were true - that is a very sorry state of affairs isn't it? The NSWCA achieves its highest membership (many hundreds) for years and Peter Parr turns up near outback Riverstone with a few “grumpy old men” and becomes NSWCA President. Be polite and you may also have chess friends.
btw they are not so old and it is not them who are grumpy.

It is fair to say that my votes came from the entire spectrum - young, middleage, female members who simply want more organized chess. A more central venue would be more democratic with a much larger entire spectrum.

Bill there is no requirement to be an active player to be a member of NSWCA which has numerous inactive (and most welcome) members. The reason these five joined the NSWCA in recent times is because each have a chess involvement between 26 and 50 years and see a shining light at the end of a dark tunnel.

The NSW State Championship has a 109 year history and I have met every NSW Champion from the last 75 years. An entry of 120 or less some years ago was considered a critical problem. 2009 saddens me greatly - 16 in all events (open to all members) - 2 players allowed to postpone every single game. The most important annual event in the NSWCA calendar! (which was in fact sadly not on the calendar). The 2010 event must be restored to its former glory when all top players were honoured to be invited. This is about organisation and I have seen chess grow worldwide in my seventh decade from my first event at Nottingham 1946 (Round Robin British Champ).

There is much to be done - Australian Championships, 2010 calendar, national membership scheme, rating review(vital) etc, etc.

We have a good council and I have worked with most members before. We do need a webmaster and publicity officer. It is important we fill all council positions.

Desmond
30-11-2009, 11:17 AM
Ideally the membership list should be frozen 14 days prior to the AGM in line with who should be sent notices of the AGM meeting.

This would be no different to company AGM's where notices are sent based on shareholding xxx days prior to the AGM. If someone becomes a shareholder after that date they dont get a vote at the AGM.I think allowing them to join is fine, just not to give them voting rights unless they joined a certain time before the meeting. 14 days sounds reasonable.

antichrist
30-11-2009, 09:21 PM
He isnt a member and has not been for a number of years.

I sent my membership money in this year, about 6 months ago, and i have queried you a few times about a receipt and you stated that it is policy that they are not posted out, that I thought bad policy. Now I am told that I am not a member, did someone pocket the money?

themovingman
01-12-2009, 12:20 AM
Considering I am a paid up member (as far as I know coz no receipt) I did not even know of the meeting taking place so how could I have participated. I did not receive any notice????????????????


just to say that there is a box on the membership application form, tick that and you get a receipt

antichrist
01-12-2009, 09:18 PM
I did not receive an application form as I was already a member or lapsed member, I can't remember ever receiving a reminder notice when my membership expired??

Surely the practise of not sending a receipt has to be changed, people think they are members and are not as in my case. As stated at the time I even sent a donation as well. No thanks no appreciation no receipt no membership no sorry

I will want a change of policy before I send any more money in there!

And Bill does not seem to care and I have already mentioned this in posts and PM a few times over the months

Muzzy
02-12-2009, 10:18 AM
Congratulations Peter for being appointed as president.

Barry congrats for the appointment as ratings officer :)

Congrats to all others that were appointed to council.
We are looking forward to next year as NSW chessplayers and have no doubt you will all do a great job for NSW chess.

Bob1
02-12-2009, 04:54 PM
Mr Parr
(sorry but there are 2 Peter's in this thread)
Congratulations for both standing & being appointed as President.
I see you have already increased the membership of the association with some names that have been absent from Chess for a while! (understandable as our lives don't always revolve around Chess - so we all tend to come & go at infrequent times)
The position of President is often more difficult/tedious than rewarding but you have a good group (the council) to work with and they all have the promotion of Chess in NSW as a goal.
Good Luck for 2010.

rob
03-12-2009, 02:56 PM
There is much to be done - Australian Championships, 2010 calendar, national membership scheme, rating review(vital) etc, etc.

I thought that Peter had only been elected to the NSWCA executive, whereas the above suggests that he is on the ACF committee. Are these items now under Peter's domain?

Potentially his 'rating review(vital)' could be referring to NSW rated events in light of Bill's post: "The ACF December ratings have been re-run with corrections made to the Ford Memorial and 6 NSW tournaments added."

Kevin Bonham
03-12-2009, 11:50 PM
Potentially his 'rating review(vital)' could be referring to NSW rated events in light of Bill's post: "The ACF December ratings have been re-run with corrections made to the Ford Memorial and 6 NSW tournaments added."

I'm expecting it refers to his hobby-horse about Glicko's dynamic treatment of the ratings of long-inactive players.

And no, Peter is not on the ACF Council at present so the best he can do with these issues is try to convince the NSWCA to put a view to the ACF Council.