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Brian_Jones
10-09-2009, 09:49 AM
Our elected officials should be protected from such vilification.......I urge you all to voice your support and add your weight to the idea that ACF elected officials are not to be subjected to personal and vular abuse during the course of the duties.....there will, in reality be less than ten people in the whole universe that support Matthew Sweeney's abuse of of our elected officials.

Yes, I agree that Sweeney's abuse is crude and over the top.

But in the past you, Gunner, have rejected any criticism of ACF officials. Indeed at times you have been overly defensive.

I personally reserve the right to abuse the ACF Executive (and ACF Council). I accuse them of ball-watching. During the last year we have had no Newsletter, no meaningful website, no publicity, no leadership, no active development and no active professional management.

Furthermore, I did not elect the ACF officials - the State Associations did. And some of the officials have two jobs with clear conflicts of interest.

I feel really comfortable in personally abusing the officials from time to time! If the heat is too much they should just leave the kitchen.

Basil
10-09-2009, 12:02 PM
Yes, I agree that Sweeney's abuse is crude and over the top.
Good. That's two.


I personally reserve the right to abuse the ACF Executive (and ACF Council). I accuse them of ball-watching. During the last year we have had no Newsletter, no meaningful website, no publicity, no leadership, no active development and no active professional management.
I don't think any elected official has a problem with this line of discussion. I don't.


I feel really comfortable in personally abusing the officials from time to time!
Good for you. There are degrees and boundaries. Sweeney has exceeded and crossed them.


If the heat is too much they should just leave the kitchen.
Sure but irrelevant. They aren't complaining.

Kevin Bonham
10-09-2009, 12:34 PM
Furthermore, I did not elect the ACF officials - the State Associations did. And some of the officials have two jobs with clear conflicts of interest.

Yes, I've noted that you continue to maintain that extremely simplistic complaint and bang on about it on threads it is at best tangential to, even though willing and competent administrators are hardly hiding behind every cabbage patch. Some of us have a lot more jobs than two, by the way, and might be more than happy to pass some of them on if anyone remotely competent and rational was hanging around who seemed willing to take them over. For instance if anyone competent wants to take over as Selections Director, which I've had for several years now in its various guises, I'd be happy to pass that on.

As for conflicts of interest between state and ACF roles, are you saying that I can't do my job as an ACF Exec member properly because I am also a TCA Exec member and this contaminates my judgement somehow? If so can you provide even one (1) example of an issue where this has affected my judgement? If not then you don't know what you're talking about. I am very well used to recognising and dealing with conflict of interest situations so that they do not unduly affect my voting on anything.

It's specifically because of these persistent simplistic attacks from you on the ACF and those serving it voluntarily that I have, at a purely personal level, declined to contribute to the appeal for your tournament. And that is my personal right and it won't be changing until your simplistic attacks have ceased.

I also get continually tempted (a la Denis) to unsubscribe from your, in my opinion, overpriced magazine.

Brian_Jones
10-09-2009, 01:39 PM
Yes, I've noted that you continue to maintain that extremely simplistic complaint and bang on about it on threads it is at best tangential to, even though willing and competent administrators are hardly hiding behind every cabbage patch.

Sweeney criticises the ACF generally. He does it in a crude way.

I criticise the ACF in specific areas. You take exception. Why? I am happy with your role as Selections Co-ordinator. I am happy with the rating system. But I am not happy with the President's leadership, the hiatus in the newsletter, the poor website or the excessive secretiveness. Have you got a problem with this?


As for conflicts of interest between state and ACF roles, are you saying that I can't do my job as an ACF Exec member properly because I am also a TCA Exec member and this contaminates my judgement somehow? If so can you provide even one (1) example of an issue where this has affected my judgement? If not then you don't know what you're talking about. I am very well used to recognising and dealing with conflict of interest situations so that they do not unduly affect my voting on anything.
My comments regarding conflicts of interest are not directed at Kevin Bonham. They are directed mainly at the ACF Deputy President (Bill Gletsos), ACF Treasurer (Norm Greenwood) and ACF Secretary (Tom Accola). As an example, as a NSWCA member, I have recently asked NSWCA to help me negotiate a specific financial settlement with the ACF regarding rating fees.


It's specifically because of these persistent simplistic attacks from you on the ACF and those serving it voluntarily that I have, at a purely personal level, declined to contribute to the appeal for your tournament. And that is my personal right and it won't be changing until your simplistic attacks have ceased. I also get continually tempted (a la Denis) to unsubscribe from your, in my opinion, overpriced magazine.

Well Kevin this is just childish. Take your revenge on the SIO and the magazine if you must. Then look at yourself in the mirror before you attend the next ACF meeting.

Kevin Bonham
10-09-2009, 02:03 PM
I criticise the ACF in specific areas. You take exception. Why? I am happy with your role as Selections Co-ordinator. I am happy with the rating system. But I am not happy with the President's leadership, the hiatus in the newsletter, the poor website or the excessive secretiveness. Have you got a problem with this?

Those were not the parts of your complaint that I was taking issue with in my above post (which is not to say I agree with all of them; some I don't).


My comments regarding conflicts of interest are not directed at Kevin Bonham. They are directed mainly at the ACF Deputy President (Bill Gletsos), ACF Treasurer (Norm Greenwood) and ACF Secretary (Tom Accola). As an example, as a NSWCA member, I have recently asked NSWCA to help me negotiate a specific financial settlement with the ACF regarding rating fees.

In previous versions of your complaint you have clearly stated a view that nobody should hold multiple jobs. That view applies to me (and others) by implication unless you specifically exclude me from it each time you make it.

If your issue is specifically with your view of the NSWCA/ACF officebearers being hamstrung by conflicts of interest then you should say that in your view those specific officebearers (or that association) deal with the conflict of interest issues poorly. You should not extend it to a generalised call for nobody to be allowed to hold multiple positions when you are unable to address the counter-point about willing officebearers being thin on the ground.


Well Kevin this is just childish.

Sheesh, a maturity flame coming from someone who defends his right to "abuse" the ACF while pushing the same simplistic barrowload he's been trotting around this forum for years. Oooh, I am so witheringly hurt by the effectiveness of such original witty insults.

[/sarcasm]

My point is nothing to do with revenge; it's about reciprocity, a concept I would expect you to understand. You want people to help you, then you should do the right thing by them in their voluntary roles, instead of implicitly badmouthing them with simplistic overgeneralised public ranting. You want people to support your tournament with donations and subscribe to your magazine. I want you to stop making over-simplistic over-generalised attacks that reflect unfairly on at least some ACF officebearers. Do you understand the metaphorical concept of a two-way street? If so demonstrate it by being more careful in your public comments. If not, don't expect to be taken seriously when you call anybody else "childish". :rolleyes:

Bill Gletsos
10-09-2009, 02:30 PM
My comments regarding conflicts of interest are not directed at Kevin Bonham. They are directed mainly at the ACF Deputy President (Bill Gletsos), ACF Treasurer (Norm Greenwood) and ACF Secretary (Tom Accola). As an example, as a NSWCA member, I have recently asked NSWCA to help me negotiate a specific financial settlement with the ACF regarding rating fees.Firstly all 3 people you mention are ACF Executive members and not State Delegates. As such when voting on the ACF Executive of ACF Council they are free to vote how they choose.

Now if their views from a NSWCA perspective and an ACF perspective happen to be one and the same there is no issue.

Even if their views differ between a NSWCA perspective and an ACF perspective then again this is not an issue as they can vote one way on the NSWCA and another way on the ACF.

Brian_Jones
10-09-2009, 02:58 PM
In previous versions of your complaint you have clearly stated a view that nobody should hold multiple jobs.
I said that some of the officials have two jobs with clear conflicts of interest.


Sheesh, a maturity flame coming from someone who defends his right to "abuse" the ACF while pushing the same simplistic barrowload he's been trotting around this forum for years.
I am defending my right to criticise and/or commend the ACF.


My point is nothing to do with revenge; it's about reciprocity, a concept I would expect you to understand. You want people to help you, then you should do the right thing by them in their voluntary roles, instead of implicitly badmouthing them with simplistic overgeneralised public ranting. You want people to support your tournament with donations and subscribe to your magazine. I want you to stop making over-simplistic over-generalised attacks that reflect unfairly on at least some ACF officebearers. Do you understand the metaphorical concept of a two-way street? This sounds like a threat. You want to buy my silence? Maybe the price I have to pay to get a more professional ACF is to sacrifice the SIO and the magazine. If so I may do just that in the coming years. :hand: Thanks for your encouragement Kevin.

Brian_Jones
10-09-2009, 03:03 PM
Firstly all 3 people you mention are ACF Executive members and not State Delegates. As such when voting on the ACF Executive of ACF Council they are free to vote how they choose.

Now if their views from a NSWCA perspective and an ACF perspective happen to be one and the same there is no issue.

Even if their views differ between a NSWCA perspective and an ACF perspective then again this is not an issue as they can vote one way on the NSWCA and another way on the ACF.

Bill there is more to chess administration (and life) than just voting! :)

Kevin Bonham
10-09-2009, 03:26 PM
I said that some of the officials have two jobs with clear conflicts of interest.

Well, my theoretical conflict of interest being on the TCA Exec and the ACF Exec should be exactly the same as the conflicts of interest of those who are also on the NSWCA Exec and the ACF Exec, so why leave me out in that case?

And your past position has been that no individual should serve on both a state association exec and the ACF Council. Do you still hold that position?


I am defending my right to criticise and/or commend the ACF.

You certainly have that right but if you criticise unfairly then that may affect my willingness to work with you (or buy your magazine) in a private capacity.


This sounds like a threat.

This sounds like a silly interpretation. All I am saying is that when the call was put out for donations to the SIO, I felt that while as an ACF officebearer I want the event to succeed (and will ignore your silly public behaviour in dealing with any requests in that regard), as a private citizen I cannot in good conscience donate, on account of your public attacks that persistently reflect unfairly on various people's ACF voluntary roles. That's not to say that all those attacks are unfair, but a lot more of them are than need to be. Nor am I saying others should not donate, but I personally am choosing not to at this stage.


You want to buy my silence?

No, I just want to encourage you to be a bit more sensible and less overgeneralising in your public comments by pointing out the detrimental impact of the unfair side of your attacks upon volunteer morale.

To hopefully make it exceedingly clear, nothing in the above is on behalf of the ACF or has anything to do with how I will act as an ACF officebearer. But as a private individual thinking about what I do with my limited money, I find it difficult to work with you because so many of your public attacks on ACF volunteers are out of order.