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Garvinator
27-07-2004, 01:30 PM
Hello ppls,

thought i would create a thread about who is cincinnatus. This way we dont block up the mt buller champs thread speculating.

by doc:

Conspiracy theory: cincinnatus = arosar

Any other possibilities?

by arosar:


Nope . . . not me.

I have a theory though. Note the posting style, the subject (ie. by-laws), and the labouring on meaning.

AR

by Brian Jones:


I agree with you amiel - it just has to be....................a certain mexican!

by scott colliver:


Brian. Are you talking about our medals man?
Scott

skip to my lou
27-07-2004, 01:43 PM
Not AGAIN Please :doh:

Garvinator
27-07-2004, 01:51 PM
Not AGAIN Please :doh:
better here than in a chess thread on buller ;)

AES
27-07-2004, 05:59 PM
Cordover? :D

Kevin Bonham
27-07-2004, 11:56 PM
It certainly has a lot of the hallmarks of past Cordover campaigns. I don't know if it's him but the temptation to check out the IPs and find out is close to getting the better of me.

If anyone has any other suspects feel free to send me a PM.

Paul S
27-07-2004, 11:58 PM
My hunch is that Cincinattus is an employee of Cordover.

ursogr8
28-07-2004, 12:14 AM
Cordover? :D

Not a chance on this guess of yours AES.
The GURU has always been open with his identity and stands by his opinion even if he gets stoned from all sides. And he has never posted a carping thread (except perhaps in retaliation to fg7's serves). The cin. posts are not the GURU's style.

And my money is not on the medal manager.

In fact I am guessing ....is that really the time? I must get some sleep.

starter

ursogr8
28-07-2004, 11:53 AM
It certainly has a lot of the hallmarks of past Cordover campaigns. I don't know if it's him but the temptation to check out the IPs and find out is close to getting the better of me.

If anyone has any other suspects feel free to send me a PM.

KB

I have a definite view based on content and style of the posts...I think Cin. is >>>>


But send you a PM re suspect? First I would like you to say whether unmasking CL was a good thing for the board. After all; that action of the unmaskers has led to CL disappearing from view. A good thing or a bad thing?

starter

Garvinator
28-07-2004, 11:56 AM
KB

I have a definite view based on content and style of the posts...I think Cin. is >>>>


But send you a PM re suspect? First I would like you to say whether unmasking CL was a good thing for the board. After all; that action of the unmaskers has led to CL disappearing from view. A good thing or a bad thing?

starter
unmasking cincy is a good idea cause of the claims he is making. A person with nothing to hide hides nothing. So if this person is on the level, he shouldnt hide behind anonymity.

Kevin Bonham
28-07-2004, 04:36 PM
I have a definite view based on content and style of the posts...I think Cin. is >>>>

I actually think Paul is close if not correct. I've had a PM suggesting that cincinnatus could be an employee or associate of CG and I think this fits. A particular name has been suggested but I am reluctant to state it here.

Scratch Cordover as a suspect.

jammo has also been named as a suspect but I don't believe it for a moment; jammo knows the by-laws much, much better than this charlie.


But send you a PM re suspect? First I would like you to say whether unmasking CL was a good thing for the board. After all; that action of the unmaskers has led to CL disappearing from view. A good thing or a bad thing?

I'm not convinced that CL was conclusively unmasked but clearly the trail was getting hot.

As for cincinnatus, unless he's going to start posting something other than rubbish then he is thoroughly dispensable. OTOH, if he's going to start posting sensibly ...

Garvinator
28-07-2004, 04:44 PM
jammo has also been named as a suspect but I don't believe it for a moment; jammo knows the by-laws much, much better than this charlie.
did anyone seriously suggest that jammo could be cinny. I would be highly surprised if Jammo was cinny. Apart from what Kevin has said about Jammo's knowledge of the by laws, but also Jammo from my reading of his post on here, has never been backward in being forward in giving his opinion and putting his name to his posts. I think that if jammo was to be critical and post here about by law matters, he would use his own name.

arosar
28-07-2004, 04:46 PM
. . . OTOH, if he's going to start posting sensibly ...

I completely agree with you man....Cinn should post more sensibly. Like stop harpin' on about esoteric nonsense that no one can understand. Best to talk in lingo that the commoner can get see. So he should bang out phrases like 'conflict of interest', 'lifeless joint' , 'prohibitively expensive'. I mean, who gets by-laws?

AR

Garvinator
28-07-2004, 04:47 PM
I mean, who gets by-laws?

AR
hopefully those that are on the acf council :lol:

Kevin Bonham
28-07-2004, 04:48 PM
I agree with gg's comments re Jammo. Furthermore I don't think Jammo has a motive, whereas [insert name here] most certainly does.

arosar
28-07-2004, 04:55 PM
hopefully those that are on the acf council :lol:

See gray....you do have a sense of humour. You and I will get along just fine.

AR

ursogr8
28-07-2004, 06:16 PM
unmasking cincy is a good idea cause of the claims he is making. A person with nothing to hide hides nothing. So if this person is on the level, he shouldnt hide behind anonymity.

Whatever happened gg'' to the usual practice of your sentences addressing the questions asked in the quote that you attributed to me?

Am I to liberally interpret that our unmasking of CL, and subsequent loss to the BB, was a good thing in your view?

starter

Garvinator
28-07-2004, 06:19 PM
Am I to liberally interpret that our unmasking of CL, and subsequent loss to the BB, was a good thing in your view?
dont worry about being liberal starter, you are completely correct to interpret as you say :uhoh:

ursogr8
28-07-2004, 06:24 PM
I agree with gg's comments re Jammo. Furthermore I don't think Jammo has a motive, whereas [insert name here] most certainly does.

So what motive do you think KB? Annoyance. Protection of the ACF. Destabilisation. Competitive. All of the above?

Which Mexican proposal was closest to being accepted?

starter

Garvinator
28-07-2004, 06:32 PM
So what motive do you think KB? Annoyance. Protection of the ACF. Destabilisation. Competitive. All of the above?

Which Mexican proposal was closest to being accepted?

starter
i know this question was for KB but can i have a shot at this. well i will before you answer, as you know filter free poster and all :whistle:

I think the anonymous posters motive is destabilisation and possibly competitive. the right term is a fishing expedition. I think cinny is just asking as many by laws questions as possible and hoping to create as much instability as possible.

Bill Gletsos
28-07-2004, 06:45 PM
Which Mexican proposal was closest to being accepted?
None. ;)

arosar
28-07-2004, 06:46 PM
I think cinny is just asking as many by laws questions as possible and hoping to create as much instability as possible.

Which, fortunately for you gray, was a poor method since most people wouldn't have a bloody clue what he was on about. As he was anon, then he ought to have just simply made outright accusations point blank. He could have dropped a few phrases like, 'conflict of interest', 'undue influence', 'improper influence', 'lifeless venue', 'prohibitively expensive', 'a fix-up', 'jobs for the boys', 'duped hook line and sinker', etc, etc. And people would have paid attention.

AR

Garvinator
28-07-2004, 07:01 PM
Which, fortunately for you gray, was a poor method since most people wouldn't have a bloody clue what he was on about. As he was anon, then he ought to have just simply made outright accusations point blank. He could have dropped a few phrases like, 'conflict of interest', 'undue influence', 'improper influence', 'lifeless venue', 'prohibitively expensive', 'a fix-up', 'jobs for the boys', 'duped hook line and sinker', etc, etc. And people would have paid attention.

AR
if he was doing more than trolling then he would have contacted George at georgeshoward@hotmail.com

I notice now that the focus is on him, he has not posted, maybe he is cl :whistle:

ursogr8
28-07-2004, 09:50 PM
None. ;)

Bill
This must rank as your most useless post ever. Thanks for trying, but REALLY.

Are you honestly saying that there was not one voice who spoke against accepting the Mt B. proposal even in the debate stage?

starter

ursogr8
28-07-2004, 09:55 PM
i know this question was for KB but can i have a shot at this. well i will before you answer, as you know filter free poster and all :whistle:

I think the anonymous posters motive is destabilisation and possibly competitive. the right term is a fishing expedition. I think cinny is just asking as many by laws questions as possible and hoping to create as much instability as possible.

I wonder if our Cin. man has as hero
http://www.cyberspace.org/~omni/roman.htm

Bill Gletsos
28-07-2004, 10:30 PM
Bill
This must rank as your most useless post ever. Thanks for trying, but REALLY.

Are you honestly saying that there was not one voice who spoke against accepting the Mt B. proposal even in the debate stage?

starter
No, because obviously Cordover as the CV delegate obviously pushed the Cv bids.
Your question was which mexican proposal was closest to being accepted and the answer was none as the Mexican bids never looked like they would get up.

Kevin Bonham
28-07-2004, 11:16 PM
No, because obviously Cordover as the CV delegate obviously pushed the Cv bids.
Your question was which mexican proposal was closest to being accepted and the answer was none as the Mexican bids never looked like they would get up.

This is correct. I think that once it was clear we were going to be indemnified against loss and that the deal would be sealed within days or else off, people were a lot less concerned about giving it a go.

[edit: sentence finished. Trying to do too many things at once here.]

From my own perspective it was not a case of there being anything wrong with the Melbourne bids, but more a case of there being insufficient reason to dump an existing arrangement that even David Cordover still considered to be viable half way through.

starter: I suspect that cincinnatus is motivated by grudges (and possibly competition in this instance). Please note the use of the plural.

ursogr8
29-07-2004, 08:35 AM
starter: I suspect that cincinnatus is motivated by grudges (and possibly competition in this instance). Please note the use of the plural.

KB
Plural on 'grudges' or on Cin.?
Sorry to have to ask, but I failed LATIN.
starter

ursogr8
29-07-2004, 12:41 PM
dont worry about being liberal starter, you are completely correct to interpret as you say :uhoh:

That means 'ragy', you were glad to see CL driven from the board, and glad to see him go. Are there any others on your 'to hit' list?
And notice that I not asking about your motive.

starter

ursogr8
29-07-2004, 12:45 PM
...............but the temptation to check out the IPs and find out is close to getting the better of me.



KB
It would be a dereliction of your moderator duty to succumb. Don't do it.
Don't open Pandora's flood-box.


starter

Garvinator
29-07-2004, 12:48 PM
That means 'ragy', you were glad to see CL driven from the board, and glad to see him go. Are there any others on your 'to hit' list?
And notice that I not asking about your motive.

starter
does your constant reference to post counts count :P ;) umm no not at this stage. To me chesslover proved his character by running away as soon as his identity was supposedly revealed.

ursogr8
29-07-2004, 12:55 PM
does your constant reference to post counts count :P ;) umm no not at this stage. To me chesslover proved his character by running away as soon as his identity was supposedly revealed.

Evasive as ever eh gg''?

Were you glad to see him go?
Who else on your hit-list?

starter

Garvinator
29-07-2004, 01:08 PM
Evasive as ever eh gg''?

Were you glad to see him go?
Who else on your hit-list?

starter
i said no none at this stage for the hit list and yes im glad cl is gone.

Rincewind
29-07-2004, 01:09 PM
Plural on 'grudges' or on Cin.?
Sorry to have to ask, but I failed LATIN.

I believe KB meant plural on grudges.

Cincinnatus is not a plural, it is the name of a Roman who lived in the 5th century BC. Twice in times of crisis the Romans appointed him dictator. Each time he got the job done and reliquished the role of dictator as soon as the crisis was over.

In this case we have a Cincinnatus who sees him/herself (it seems) as a self-appointed conscience of the ACF. As for motives, his/her handle would seem to imply altruism but perhaps time will tell with that too.

As I see it, there see no reason for any official of the ACF to address any of Cincinnatus' questions until he makes his/her identity clear.

With regard speculation on the identity - he/she could be anyone with an interest in ancient history. ;)

arosar
29-07-2004, 01:09 PM
Ya know, I kinda miss CL. At least with him we got to talking seriously about other stuff like Presidential elections and that. I bet he would have an opinion on Fahrenheit 9/11 and the FTA, etc, etc.

CL was really the best amongst us all. I miss him terribly.

AR

arosar
29-07-2004, 01:11 PM
i said no none at this stage for the hit list and yes im glad cl is gone.

How can you say this? That is a truly evil attitude gray. Unacceptable. He was an exciting person. And, contrary to popular belief, very very very smart.

AR

Ian Rout
29-07-2004, 02:04 PM
I have an alternative theory. Now cinny comes across as a bit of a sad case - he (it sounds like a he anyway) doesn't want to debate the merits of Mt Buller as a venue or in comparison with other options, or any aspects of the tournament. He dribbles about by-laws and constitutions and even on that turf is exposed as not knowing much about them. He gives himself a ridiculously grandiose name. Obviously somebody who doesn't get out a lot, even to chess tournaments, or have many friends.

To me it all sounds a bit too easy. Nobody who wanted themselves or their (alleged) viewpoint to be taken seriously would behave that way. I think it likely that cinny is not one of the obvious suspects but is designed to discredit one or more of the obvious suspects - possibly someone in particular, or just whoever the blame happens to fall on.

Not being in the know about the murky world of Vic politics I can't say who cinny is or who he is pretending to be (or should that be pretending to be pretending to be?). But maybe somebody closer to the action might have some thoughts?

PHAT
29-07-2004, 03:04 PM
... and yes im glad cl is gone.

I'm not. :(

ursogr8
29-07-2004, 05:11 PM
Ya know, I kinda miss CL. At least with him we got to talking seriously about other stuff like Presidential elections and that. I bet he would have an opinion on Fahrenheit 9/11 and the FTA, etc, etc.

CL was really the best amongst us all. I miss him terribly.

AR

I am with you Amiel.
CL was a key part of the mix on the BB.

starter

Garvinator
29-07-2004, 05:13 PM
nothing is stopping him coming back apart from himself.

ursogr8
29-07-2004, 05:17 PM
I have an alternative theory. Now cinny comes across as a bit of a sad case - he (it sounds like a he anyway) doesn't want to debate the merits of Mt Buller as a venue or in comparison with other options, or any aspects of the tournament. He dribbles about by-laws and constitutions and even on that turf is exposed as not knowing much about them. He gives himself a ridiculously grandiose name. Obviously somebody who doesn't get out a lot, even to chess tournaments, or have many friends.

To me it all sounds a bit too easy. Nobody who wanted themselves or their (alleged) viewpoint to be taken seriously would behave that way. I think it likely that cinny is not one of the obvious suspects but is designed to discredit one or more of the obvious suspects - possibly someone in particular, or just whoever the blame happens to fall on.

Not being in the know about the murky world of Vic politics I can't say who cinny is or who he is pretending to be (or should that be pretending to be pretending to be?). But maybe somebody closer to the action might have some thoughts?

Who I think Cin. is does not match the profile you paint Ian. This is not to say I think you wrong, just that I looked more from motivation rather than style. (Hence my questions with Bill and KB about whether the WHJC or the Cordover proposals got closest.)

VIC politics are not so much murky (which implies clouded and confined) as dispersed and lacking coherence.

starter

ursogr8
29-07-2004, 05:54 PM
I'm not. :(

gg''''yy

We know how Bill would vote ;)

Looks like you are out-voted on this one.

Garvinator
29-07-2004, 05:57 PM
gg''''yy

We know how Bill would vote ;)

Looks like you are out-voted on this one.
only one persons vote counts and that is cl's and he has voted to stay away.

arosar
29-07-2004, 06:05 PM
VIC politics are not so much murky (which implies clouded and confined) as dispersed and lacking coherence.

And sinister?

AR

Bill Gletsos
29-07-2004, 06:16 PM
gg''''yy

We know how Bill would vote ;)
Actually you are wrong.

He was rarely into beatups.
His only one possibly being the need for a selection appeals mechanism.
He also wasnt crude,rude and vulgar.

If given the choice of having Matt or CL here I'd pick CL. :hand:

Kevin Bonham
29-07-2004, 06:35 PM
KB
It would be a dereliction of your moderator duty to succumb. Don't do it.
Don't open Pandora's flood-box.

If I did it I would keep it strictly confidential and abstein from any further speculation.

So far I have not been all that tempted. Too much hassle.

From the name I'd suggest we are dealing with someone who has either represented Australia or been an ACF official (or both).

I also do not believe cincinnatus to be a hydra of anyone we know.

As for the CL thing, CL was on the whole a positive presence on the board despite the odd enormous goosefest and I'd be glad to have him back. However I support people's entitlement to speculate about the identity of anons, even if the odd anon gets scared off in the process. That's up to them.

Kevin Bonham
29-07-2004, 08:06 PM
transferred:


Cincinnatus = arosar.

Evidence?

1) arosar doesn't like Mt Buller and thinks graygray is "the weak link"

2) Cincinnatus criticised AES of pluralism earlier (post = #281) in this thread and he does the same again here



(Now should that be "the public don't" or "the public doesn't"?


3) arosar perhaps "knows" who cinn is (post #283)
"Cinn, mate...I'm so disappointed in you. You allow yourself to be distracted too easily...

Focus man, focus!"

4) arosar and cinn have never been on at the same time

5) arosar found it interesting to define what cincinnatus meant (post #288) and claimed in the same post
"He clearly has an agenda. But it is entertaining to the rest of us."

6) when I proposed he could be cincinnatus, he quickly replied and shifted the focus.

Games up, arosar.]

I don't believe a word of this. "arosar and cinn have never been on at the same time" - and what would someone with only a handful of posts to their name know about that?

ursogr8
29-07-2004, 08:35 PM
From the name I'd suggest we are dealing with someone who has either represented Australia or been an ACF official (or both).




It easy to draw the wrong conclusion from names.
An alternate theory, for example, is that he knows the classics.
And my suspect does.




As for the CL thing, CL was on the whole a positive presence on the board despite the odd enormous goosefest and I'd be glad to have him back. However I support people's entitlement to speculate about the identity of anons, even if the odd anon gets scared off in the process. That's up to them.


Good response KB.
That leaves raggy''' as the only non-CL voter, to date.

starter

ursogr8
29-07-2004, 08:36 PM
Actually you are wrong.

He was rarely into beatups.
His only one possibly being the need for a selection appeals mechanism.
He also wasnt crude,rude and vulgar.

If given the choice of having Matt or CL here I'd pick CL. :hand:

No Bill. I am not wrong. I knew that you would vote that way.

starter

Kevin Bonham
29-07-2004, 09:25 PM
It easy to draw the wrong conclusion from names.
An alterntae theory, for example, is that he knows the classics.

Are you sure our theories are not compatible? Could we be dealing with someone with a past relevant to the name and who knows the classics?

Another possibility has occurred to me, but this is a person who I know nothing adverse about whatsoever so I will not be commenting further on that one. I would rather confine the dropping of hints to those who have a known history of engaging in beat-ups.

Has your suspect (to your knowledge) ever posted on these BBs?

peanbrain
29-07-2004, 11:15 PM
transferred:



I don't believe a word of this. "arosar and cinn have never been on at the same time" - and what would someone with only a handful of posts to their name know about that?
good point. Cincinnatus = doc ?! :eek:

Rincewind
29-07-2004, 11:49 PM
good point. Cincinnatus = doc ?! :eek:

I think you're getting warmer. Cincinnatus certainly reminded me immediately of doc. But if you already have one secret identity why start another one. Also the style does seem a bit different.

Perhaps Cincinnatus is known to doc. :hmm:

ursogr8
30-07-2004, 08:35 AM
Has your suspect (to your knowledge) ever posted on these BBs?

KB
No. But he has watched as a guest most of this year. And he has the retaliation motive.
starter

Lucena
30-07-2004, 11:41 AM
It easy to draw the wrong conclusion from names.
An alternate theory, for example, is that he knows the classics.
And my suspect does.

starter
Name names. :D

doc
30-07-2004, 11:58 AM
Please, do not insult my intelligence, people. I stand on my own two feet.

Perhaps, get a degree from the school of common sense and get back to me with some better ideas.

"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great ones make you feel that you, too can become great." --Mark Twain

A good laugh and a long sleep are the best cures in the doctor’s book.

Garvinator
30-07-2004, 12:04 PM
nice evasion skills doc, starter could claim you have been taking lessons from me :lol:

but anyways answer barry cox speculation that you know cinny in person. Or answer this question, who are you?

PHAT
30-07-2004, 04:48 PM
Name names. :D

Just a gentle reminder - "Name names" is copyrighted by me.

Kevin Bonham
30-07-2004, 07:33 PM
KB
No. But he has watched as a guest most of this year. And he has the retaliation motive.
starter

OK, we are making progress here. Now this question, should you choose to answer it, may determine whether your man is my #1 or #2 suspect, and even whether I should swap them in the pecking order:

Does his retaliation motive prominently include matters entirely unrelated to the whole Australian Open bid process?.

PS doc may not have been right about anything else here but I believe him when he says he is not cincinnatus.

peanbrain
30-07-2004, 08:04 PM
PS doc may not have been right about anything else here but I believe him when he says he is not cincinnatus.

But this doc is still an idiot in my book! ;)

ursogr8
31-07-2004, 10:38 AM
OK, we are making progress here. Now this question, should you choose to answer it, may determine whether your man is my #1 or #2 suspect, and even whether I should swap them in the pecking order:

Does his retaliation motive prominently include matters entirely unrelated to the whole Australian Open bid process?.

PS doc may not have been right about anything else here but I believe him when he says he is not cincinnatus.

KB
My suspect is POPO on the bid.
starter

Kevin Bonham
31-07-2004, 08:42 PM
KB
No. But he has watched as a guest most of this year. And he has the retaliation motive.
starter

In fact, he joined the BB on 24 Feb 2004.

Your acronym escapes me but I will send you a PM sometime soon.

ursogr8
31-07-2004, 10:56 PM
In fact, he joined the BB on 24 Feb 2004.

Your acronym escapes me but I will send you a PM sometime soon.

KB

First, POPO = passed over and p****d off........an old public service saying.

Second, my suspect Cin. is no longer suspect.......the latest Cin. posts are beyond my Sus's ken.

starter

Kevin Bonham
01-08-2004, 04:20 AM
I had a flash of inspiration today and have a new chief suspect. A warrant for this gentleman's arrest to face a charge of criminally weak trolling (one count) has been PM'd to my fellow inspector for comments before it is taken to the judge.

(I would still like to interrogate my former chief suspect some more though too, if only to watch him squirm!)

Garvinator
01-08-2004, 04:24 AM
and who is the judge?

ursogr8
01-08-2004, 09:35 AM
and who is the judge?
Obvious.
The jury is the BB.

Kevin Bonham
01-08-2004, 08:54 PM
It looks very likely that our man either has or had an MCC connection. That may narrow it down a bit for other investigators. A few more "possibles" have emerged though and it would be nice to eliminate those.

Lucena
02-08-2004, 11:19 PM
Just a gentle reminder - "Name names" is copyrighted by me.

just stirring :D

Garvinator
13-08-2004, 08:41 PM
It looks very likely that our man either has or had an MCC connection. That may narrow it down a bit for other investigators. A few more "possibles" have emerged though and it would be nice to eliminate those.
well well, what has happened to cincinnatus? :hmm:

eclectic
13-08-2004, 11:55 PM
well well, what has happened to cincinnatus? :hmm:

he must have started pining for the animals back on the farm

:rolleyes:

eclectic