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Trent Parker
12-07-2009, 05:05 AM
The Bennett: "the french exchange is boring!"

Trent Parker: "no its not... if you castle on opposite sides"

A discussion i've had several times with The Bennett

SO.... I know there are some french players out there share your games!!!

I'll start. This game is currently still being played out on chess.com but I have conditional moves which all lead to mate:

[Event "Open Tournament 1.1"]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2009.05.27"]
[Round "1"]
[White "prashanth21"]
[Black "trentthechessnut"]
[Result "*"]
[WhiteElo "1865"]
[BlackElo "1769"]
[PlyCount "44"]
[EventDate "2009.??.??"]
[TimeControl "1"]

1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 exd5 4. d4 Bg4 5. h3 Be6 6. Be2 Nc6 7. O-O Bd6 8.
Nc3 Nge7 9. a3 Qd7 10. Bb5 f6 11. a4 O-O-O 12. Re1 h5 13. b3 g5 14. Nh2 g4 15.
hxg4 hxg4 16. g3 Bf5 17. Na2 Be4 18. Be2 Rxh2 19. f3 gxf3 20. Kxh2

The game is currently at White to move no 23 but i'll give you this puzzle: Black to play & M8 in 8 (a number of variatios)

Igor_Goldenberg
12-07-2009, 10:29 AM
Exchange line was one of the reason I stopped playing French about 25 years ago. Another reason was 3.Nd2

Kevin Bonham
12-07-2009, 05:01 PM
Exchange line was one of the reason I stopped playing French about 25 years ago. Another reason was 3.Nd2

On the contrary I'd love it if all Whites would play one of these or the other.

Garvinator
12-07-2009, 05:40 PM
On the contrary I'd love it if all Whites would play one of these or the other.
Would this comment be the same if the white pieces were being handled regularly by the +2000ACF rated players that Igor is normally facing?

Kevin Bonham
12-07-2009, 06:00 PM
Would this comment be the same if the white pieces were being handled regularly by the +2000ACF rated players that Igor is normally facing?

Very probably. For instance a (genuine) FM has played the Exchange against me twice and I was competitive in both games ("lucky" to draw one and "unlucky" to lose the other.)

I've never yet played anyone over 2100 who has played 3.Nd2 but I've beaten two 2000-ish players with black and would find having a bash at the black side against a really strong player a lot more inviting than a really strong player playing the Advanced or 3.Nc3. Of course, I might still lose.

I guess at Igor's level there is the issue of creating winning chances with black, which may be a good reason not to allow the Exchange. But even then there are many lines with which Black can unbalance the position.

Igor_Goldenberg
12-07-2009, 07:35 PM
I just found positions after 3.Nd2 c5 or exchange too boring. Don't forget
I was only 15 at the time.

Trent Parker
12-07-2009, 08:01 PM
Do you think the game above is boring?

MichaelBaron
12-07-2009, 08:43 PM
I just found positions after 3.Nd2 c5 or exchange too boring. Don't forget
I was only 15 at the time.

Igor, at 15 i felt the same..I used to play Sicilian Sveshnikov (the opening i would not touch now) against 1.e4. It is funny how much theory i knew at that age..and how little i understood about chess :).

Saragossa
12-07-2009, 11:21 PM
Igor, at 15 i felt the same..I used to play Sicilian Sveshnikov (the opening i would not touch now) against 1.e4. It is funny how much theory i knew at that age..and how little i understood about chess :).

Hahahaha I'm 15 and I play the Kalashnikov. Hmm seems i have alot to learn :P :P :P

On the note of the french. Surely Drug (FM Smirnov *apologies for spelling*) plays the exchange french (or atleast I have seen him play it a couple of times) and he works well with it. I don't think it's even boring without opposite side castling, it's boring if nobody tries for any sort of imbalance.

Garvinator
12-07-2009, 11:41 PM
Hahahaha I'm 15 and I play the kalashnikov. Hmm seems i have alot to learn :P :P :P
First of all I would recommend calling the opening by getting its name right ;)

Saragossa
13-07-2009, 01:19 AM
First of all I would recommend calling the opening by getting its name right ;)

I played the Sveshnikov against you but most of the time if someone plays the open sicilian I opt for the Kalashnikov. I was presuming that Michael would not touch the Kalashnikov either due to it being incredibly similar to the Sveshnikov.

Tony Dowden
13-07-2009, 12:19 PM
:hmm: Isn't the 'Exchange French' the topic? (What would AC say?)

I've played the French for 30 or so years. As a teen I didn't like being faced with the Exchange but later on I found it was easy to equalise against, with plenty of fun ways of unbalancing the position.

Presuming 2.d4, I reckon 3.Nc3! is strongest but there's too much theory to learn for me to play it as White!

And as an aside (in case the religious police are watching), I never really understood why the Winawer fell from favour at the highest levels. After all, even Fischer had lots of trouble with it. Maybe the structure has been regarded as too rigid? eg games like Chandler-Ivanchuk (1-0) [maybe someone can find it?] leave a vivid impression - but in his heyday Murray 'Our Muzza' Chandler was one of the best attacking players in the world.

Garvinator
13-07-2009, 01:14 PM
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Ne7 7.Nf3
Qa5 8.Bd2 Nbc6 9.a4 Bd7 10.Bb5 O-O-O 11.O-O c4 12.Bc1 f6
13.Qe1 Rhe8 14.Ba3 Kb8 15.Bxc6 Nxc6 16.Qe3 Ka8 17.Rfb1 Bc8
18.Bd6 Rd7 19.Rb5 Qd8 20.a5 g5 21.Bc5 g4 22.Bb6 Rc7 23.Ne1
fxe5 24.dxe5 Bd7 25.Qc5 Re7 26.a6 bxa6 27.Rxa6 Be8 28.Bxc7
Rxc7 29.Qd6 Qxd6 30.exd6 Rb7 31.Rxb7 Kxb7 32.Ra1 Kc8 33.Rb1 a5
34.f3 h5 35.Kf2 Kd7 36.fxg4 hxg4 37.h3 gxh3 38.gxh3 Kxd6
39.Nf3 a4 40.Nd4 e5 41.Nxc6 Kxc6 42.Ke3 Kc5 43.Kd2 Kd6 44.Rb6+
Kc5 45.Rf6 Kb5 46.Re6 Bd7 47.Rxe5 Bxh3 48.Rxd5+ Kb6 49.Kc1 1-0

Zwischenzug
13-07-2009, 01:17 PM
In the game above, doesn't 10...Nxe5 win a pawn? I remember black being able to get away with a similar trick in the advance variation.

Kevin Bonham
13-07-2009, 01:29 PM
In the game above, doesn't 10...Nxe5 win a pawn? I remember black being able to get away with a similar trick in the advance variation.

No because the bishop on b5 is defended meaning that black has no piece to get back if white just takes on e5.

I've won about a million pawns by some version or other of that ...Nxe5 trick which is basically the standard French patzer-trap. However, unfortunately, when playing the white side of a French-like Sicilian, I fell into a similar version of it involving queens instead of bishops, which put me out of the running for the 2005 Tas Champs. :doh:

Zwischenzug
13-07-2009, 01:31 PM
No because the bishop on b5 is defended meaning that black has no piece to get back if white just takes on e5.

With 10...Nxe5, that bishop would be attacked twice, by queen and bishop whilst defended only once.

Kevin Bonham
13-07-2009, 02:23 PM
With 10...Nxe5, that bishop would be attacked twice, by queen and bishop whilst defended only once.

It doesn't matter because when black captures on b5 with the bishop (and then the queen) all he wins is the a-pawn. Meanwhile he has lost a piece for a pawn in the centre.

Igor_Goldenberg
13-07-2009, 02:32 PM
Do you think the game above is boring?
I think white was very weak in that game.

Tony Dowden
13-07-2009, 08:11 PM
Chandler-Ivanchuk 1-0
Thanks! I well remember that fearsome attack :cool:

Tony Dowden
13-07-2009, 08:17 PM
In the game above, doesn't 10...Nxe5 win a pawn? I remember black being able to get away with a similar trick in the advance variation.
And - further to KB's comment - the White R on a1 is defended by the White Q on d1, so after 10...Nxe5? 11.Nxe5 Bxb5 White can play 12.axb5 because 12...Qxa1? loses