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george
06-07-2009, 08:57 PM
Hi All,

I was told on the weekend by an informed friendly Tasmanian :) that the Australian Schools Finals is in Melbourne in 2009. Is this correct and are there any more details.

The Aus JCL website had nothing on it when I looked a week ago :( .

Bill Gletsos
07-07-2009, 11:19 AM
Hi All,

I was told on the weekend by an informed friendly Tasmanian :) that the Australian Schools Finals is in Melbourne in 2009. Is this correct and are there any more details.I believe this to be correct.

Libby2
07-07-2009, 11:43 AM
I believe this to be correct.

Do we have anything more - like the dates? Not looking for a full fanfare announcement - just that info for a start.

ta

ER
07-07-2009, 12:29 PM
Do we have anything more - like the dates? Not looking for a full fanfare announcement - just that info for a start.

ta

but i like full fanfare announcements! they are fun! :)

Libby2
07-07-2009, 02:50 PM
but i like full fanfare announcements! they are fun! :)

They are fun - but being able to tell the parents who have been asking for this info since the team qualified several months ago will be one more job out of the way. Not to mention being able to pin down end of year planning when I have involvement with this alongside graduations, school formals and ballet concerts that are "significant" events for one or more of the household and all happen at around the same time of year.

When you have dates you can do good things like book flights (and get good prices) and either relax about the end of year arrangements or start the juggle of what can be managed or press the panic button for what clearly can't.

I heard nothing at the 2008 ASTC about the 2009 event but had heard rumours about Melbourne this year but no idea who/when/where or if they had any substance.

Bill Gletsos
07-07-2009, 08:06 PM
Do we have anything more - like the dates? Not looking for a full fanfare announcement - just that info for a start.All I had heard last April from the ACF President was that Kerry Lyall was organising it in December in Victoria.

Libby2
08-07-2009, 10:04 AM
All I had heard last April from the ACF President was that Kerry Lyall was organising it in December in Victoria.

Thanks for that Bill. I think that means you don't know more than me because that was a rumour I heard and I don't know that it's come to fruition in any formal or more definite way since then.

I took your original post to mean that there may have been some sort of decision taken.

In the time since April-ish I have heard that the rumour remains a possibility but a far from decided one. It would certainly be good to hear if there is anything more definite on the radar. In the ACT we are a bit early in some respects in finalising the Girls' teams in Term 1, but it would be good to know by mid-year what state you are expected to arrange travel to.

So if anyone does have info out there ...

Denis_Jessop
08-07-2009, 03:58 PM
Thanks for that Bill. I think that means you don't know more than me because that was a rumour I heard and I don't know that it's come to fruition in any formal or more definite way since then.

I took your original post to mean that there may have been some sort of decision taken.

In the time since April-ish I have heard that the rumour remains a possibility but a far from decided one. It would certainly be good to hear if there is anything more definite on the radar. In the ACT we are a bit early in some respects in finalising the Girls' teams in Term 1, but it would be good to know by mid-year what state you are expected to arrange travel to.

So if anyone does have info out there ...

I know no more than Bill. All Australian junior chempionships are now under the aegis of the AusJCL so Charles Zworestine, the President, would be your best bet or, assuming that the event is being organised by Kerry Lyall, Kerry (klyall) herself.

DJ

george
09-07-2009, 09:48 AM
Hi Denis,

Your in the know about AUSJCL things - you certainly championed its inception at ACF level. Do you know when the AUSJCL website will be updated or should I say completed. It promises to give lots of information but hasnt progressed anywhere for months.

I am a coach of juniors in schools , involved with SAJCL and would like to keep abreast of national junior matters but the website that should be of assistance is threadbare.

I have got brochures on Australian Junior (given to me by very nice tasmanian last weekend) and i will distribute these to my schools but one school in particular has an interest in Australian Schools Finals. Shortly I am going to start sounding like Libby whose priority also seems to be her school children charges:) .

Denis_Jessop
09-07-2009, 08:31 PM
Hi Denis,

Your in the know about AUSJCL things - you certainly championed its inception at ACF level. Do you know when the AUSJCL website will be updated or should I say completed. It promises to give lots of information but hasnt progressed anywhere for months.

I am a coach of juniors in schools , involved with SAJCL and would like to keep abreast of national junior matters but the website that should be of assistance is threadbare.

I have got brochures on Australian Junior (given to me by very nice tasmanian last weekend) and i will distribute these to my schools but one school in particular has an interest in Australian Schools Finals. Shortly I am going to start sounding like Libby whose priority also seems to be her school children charges:) .


Hi George

I am not sure what the current position is on most things with the AusJCL mainly because my main contact was Jenni Oliver who has resigned and has given up all chess activity for the time being. That's why I suggested contacting Charles Z in my post above. As the President he should be able to answer questions about the AusJCL whereas I have no significant information at present.

DJ

Libby2
10-07-2009, 08:37 AM
Shortly I am going to start sounding like Libby ....

Careful, that can be dangerous ;)


whose priority also seems to be her school children charges:) .

Which it is. It's been a few years since I had a child playing at the Aus Schools but the chess club at Curtin Primary keeps trundling out very keen interschool teams and as I run the chess club I am the defacto "organiser" and "supervisor" when our teams qualify for the ASTC. (Luckily it's an easy job as I have had some really great kids and supportive - patient - parents for the whole 6 years that we've now qualified.)

The big difference seems to be that we usually know where it's going to be as a result of conversations held at the previous event, even if the arrangements are not pinned down. This time it still seems a bit up in the air. That's a shame, even just on the basic levels of organising things at our end and promoting our anticipated involvement to our local school community (it works much better to say in a school newsletter or media release "now the team is off to blah on such-and-such a date" than it does to say we've qualified for an event, date and venue unknown).

ER
10-07-2009, 08:44 AM
I heard nothing at the 2008 ASTC about the 2009 event but had heard rumours about Melbourne this year but no idea who/when/where or if they had any substance.
I will have my eyes and ears open and let you know for whatever developments if any! Main point is: Libby nice to see you back! :):clap: :clap:

BearDrinkingBeer
10-07-2009, 09:21 AM
Australian Schools Finals is in Melbourne in 2009.
Nice!

george
10-07-2009, 05:33 PM
Hi Denis,

Fair enough then. So you were the midwife to birth of AUSJCL not a parent or even a godparent.

I will send message to Charles and ask him.

Denis_Jessop
10-07-2009, 08:12 PM
Hi Denis,

Fair enough then. So you were the midwife to birth of AUSJCL not a parent or even a godparent.

I will send message to Charles and ask him.

Hi George

That's right. I drafted the Constitution and saw the necessary motions through the ACF Council but the initiative for forming the body and most of the organising came from Jenni O with support from others in the junior chess community.

I saw a post on an unmentionable chess forum (aka the toolbox) to the effect that no proposal had been put to CV for the holding of the finals and no Tournament Organiser has been appointed by CV; but that begs the question as CV may not be the proposed organiser - Kerry is also an Office Bearer of the AusJCL. I don't know the answer.

DJ

Garvinator
11-07-2009, 12:23 AM
Hmm, I am going to the closing ceremony of the Australian Junior Training Squad tomorrow. I will try and find out what I can and report back as it is clear that not many people seem to know what is happening, if there is anything to actual know.

Brian_Jones
11-07-2009, 09:11 AM
Hmm, I am going to the closing ceremony of the Australian Junior Training Squad tomorrow. I will try and find out what I can and report back as it is clear that not many people seem to know what is happening, if there is anything to actual know.

Any information on the Australian Junior Training Squad itself?

Or is it a secret? :)

Solo
11-07-2009, 01:17 PM
In the tournament that just finished: 1st Jason Tang 6/7; 2nd Sam Grigg 5.5; =3rd Sally Yu, Jonas Muller and Yi Liu 5. It was held at Nundah State School in Brisbane, the coaches were Ian Rogers, Darryl Johansen, Roland Schmaltz, Andreas Toth and myself. David Smerdon is currently giving a simul. The week was great and thoroughly enjoyed by all!

WhiteElephant
11-07-2009, 01:48 PM
That's 3 big tourneys Jason has won in the past 3 or so weeks :clap:

Garvinator
11-07-2009, 06:12 PM
From my understanding from speaking to a couple of people today, the picture seems to be that the ASTC 2009 will be held in Melbourne Dec 5/6. The reason for this date is that the Commonwealth Championships start in Malaysia on the 9th Dec.

Libby2
12-07-2009, 05:44 PM
From my understanding from speaking to a couple of people today, the picture seems to be that the ASTC 2009 will be held in Melbourne Dec 5/6. The reason for this date is that the Commonwealth Championships start in Malaysia on the 9th Dec.

Thanks Garvin. And the organiser/organisers are likely to be? (As in who I should contact to follow up for more info - it's all very well to follow up with Charles Z but if it's in Melbourne he may well have a distant AusJCL or an Arbiter's perspective but won't be the person to follow up with for the actual details you need to make plans to get there ...:cool: )

Also, no offence, but I have told my parent group exactly this (5/6 Dec, Melbourne) some months ago because that's been a persistant "picture" but if it's reality - can we get an announcement in an official forum sometime? Is this what's happening or is it just what everyone hopes is happening? You can't book flights without knowing that there is a firm, announced intention about the venue & dates.

If Victoria have agreed to host, it can't be so hard to say so, even if the details aren't sorted.

george
12-07-2009, 06:09 PM
Hi Libby,
One would suspect the appropriate forum on which to make announcements is the AUSJCL website but from what I have noticed that has been a static site for many many months.

So I guess we have to wait till it comes down from the mount - no different really from the bad old ACF days really - in fact nothing seems to have changed much but never mind I'm sure everything will be absolutely perfect as the time rolls on - but - one of the reasons for AUSJCL inception was lack of timely information provided by ACF to junior chess stakeholders???

Anyway grin and bear it right:uhoh:

Libby2
13-07-2009, 12:40 PM
Hi Libby,
One would suspect the appropriate forum on which to make announcements is the AUSJCL website but from what I have noticed that has been a static site for many many months.

Yes, I did try to find things before I put egg on my face by asking an answered question but had no luck.


So I guess we have to wait till it comes down from the mount - no different really from the bad old ACF days really - in fact nothing seems to have changed much but never mind I'm sure everything will be absolutely perfect as the time rolls on - but - one of the reasons for AUSJCL inception was lack of timely information provided by ACF to junior chess stakeholders???

Anyway grin and bear it right:uhoh:

I hope it all goes well. I'm too disconnected to know what the deal is. Unfortunately that leaves me knowing nothing instead of my usual position of knowing everything :owned:

I'd just like to go back to school next term and be able to tell the parents what the deal is.

Garvinator
13-07-2009, 12:57 PM
Thanks Garvin. And the organiser/organisers are likely to be? (As in who I should contact to follow up for more info - it's all very well to follow up with Charles Z but if it's in Melbourne he may well have a distant AusJCL or an Arbiter's perspective but won't be the person to follow up with for the actual details you need to make plans to get there ...:cool: )

Also, no offence, but I have told my parent group exactly this (5/6 Dec, Melbourne) some months ago because that's been a persistant "picture" but if it's reality - can we get an announcement in an official forum sometime? Is this what's happening or is it just what everyone hopes is happening? You can't book flights without knowing that there is a firm, announced intention about the venue & dates.

If Victoria have agreed to host, it can't be so hard to say so, even if the details aren't sorted.
Kerry Lyall is about the only name I heard mentioned, or at least that is where the enquiries should be directed.

I think we are all in the same boat regarding something official and lack of contact and general information.

george
13-07-2009, 11:44 PM
Hi All,

From a good source - nothing has been agreed as to venue or time etc by AUSJCL. So we let the good people of AUSJCL and whomever continue with negotiations preparations etc until a decision has been made.

Thats the way things seemed to go on the whole with ACF re junior matters as well but I would expect we should know by August or so to give schools a chance to organise. In SA we will know who the secondary reps are by late August.

I know some of ACT schools are selected really early but we just have to wait i guess:) :( :eh:

Denis_Jessop
16-07-2009, 08:29 PM
As apparently nobody else was prepared to do as I suggested (it would have required a little nous/work :) ) I contacted Charles Zworestine to find out what is happening.

The intention is to hold the event in Melbourne on the first weekend in December but at present a venue is still being sought. As often happens, there was one possibility that is not available after all so another option is being pursued.

DJ

PS My jibe at the beginning is directed not only at the present case but at the frequency of posts on CCF asking for information that the poster using half a brain could just as easily get for him/herself by simple search.

george
17-07-2009, 03:53 AM
Hi Denis,
I did contact Charles and he replied but sorry I should have contacted him the second YOU suggested it and immediately reported back to you. I do apologise for being so tardy in my response - I humbly beseech your forgiveness;) .

Libby2
17-07-2009, 09:51 AM
Hi Denis,
I did contact Charles and he replied but sorry I should have contacted him the second YOU suggested it and immediately reported back to you. I do apologise for being so tardy in my response - I humbly beseech your forgiveness;) .

:doh: You must have seen the same comprehensive response as me when you did ask the question? Or maybe the same confusing advice by PM? Or wondered about the same unconfirmed rumour for the past many months and when/if you can actually assure people that it's what is happening?

That's probably been more of a problem than people asking irritating questions here. Or perhaps it's the source of those questions.

Garvinator
17-07-2009, 12:49 PM
:doh: You must have seen the same comprehensive response as me when you did ask the question? Or maybe the same confusing advice by PM? Or wondered about the same unconfirmed rumour for the past many months and when/if you can actually assure people that it's what is happening?

That's probably been more of a problem than people asking irritating questions here. Or perhaps it's the source of those questions.
Now if only there was an ACF newsletter :uhoh:

Denis_Jessop
17-07-2009, 10:07 PM
Hi Denis,
I did contact Charles and he replied but sorry I should have contacted him the second YOU suggested it and immediately reported back to you. I do apologise for being so tardy in my response - I humbly beseech your forgiveness;) .

It being you, George, I shall be happy to do so. I am at present re-reading Njal's Saga in which there are numerous killings and subsequent settlements at the Thing. I tried to get something of the kind into the present scene but it doesn't seem to work. :)

DJ

PS I had a further note from Charles today indicating that the search for a venue is continuing, the second option also being unavailable.

george
17-07-2009, 10:36 PM
Hi Denis,

Off the thread (almost guilty of thread drift)somewhat but yes continuing your post when I took up the job of ACF President all those years ago Roland Eime lent me a copy of Machievelli's "The Prince". Very informative - pity i didnt use it and have a few people "eliminated":) .

George

TrueBeliever
18-07-2009, 02:51 PM
Hi Denis,

Off the thread (almost guilty of thread drift)somewhat but yes continuing your post when I took up the job of ACF President all those years ago Roland Eime lent me a copy of Machievelli's "The Prince". Very informative - pity i didnt use it and have a few people "eliminated":) .

George
Immolation might have been a better option

Denis_Jessop
18-07-2009, 09:36 PM
Immolation might have been a better option

Then they would have been illuminated.

DJ

AzureBlue
21-07-2009, 04:54 PM
I was told on the weekend by an informed friendly Tasmanian :) that the Australian Schools Finals is in Melbourne in 2009.
Hooray! Is it on the 5/6th of Dec?
:clap: :lol: :) :) :)

Denis_Jessop
21-07-2009, 05:03 PM
Hooray! Is it on the 5/6th of Dec?
:clap: :lol: :) :) :)

AB

A lot has happened on this thread since the post to which you refer. The gist of it is that the AusJCL is trying to arrange for the finals to be held in Melbourne on the first weekend in December but that, to date, a venue has not been firmly arranged according to the latest information I have. A couple of desired venues are not available so the searh continues.

DJ

AzureBlue
21-07-2009, 05:12 PM
AB

A lot has happened on this thread since the post to which you refer. The gist of it is that the AusJCL is trying to arrange for the finals to be held in Melbourne on the first weekend in December but that, to date, a venue has not been firmly arranged according to the latest information I have. A couple of desired venues are not available so the searh continues.

DJ
ahh ok. :)
What are the prospective venues? :hmm:

ER
21-07-2009, 07:42 PM
I think that the Atrium (Federation Square) just a stone's throw of my SBS office is ideal! Majestic place to play chess!

Denis_Jessop
21-07-2009, 09:17 PM
ahh ok. :)
What are the prospective venues? :hmm:

I'm not quite sure. I don't have anything to do with the event but am the ACF liaison with the AusJCL so asked in that capacciity. The AusJCL is doing the organising. Several Melbourne schools have been considered - schools are usually favoured as venues as they usually have outdoor areas for relaxation and play, bearing in mind that many of the players are primary school kids.

DJ

Sally94
22-07-2009, 02:17 PM
Some of the places that have been considered so far have been Scotch College, PLC, Melbourne Uni. The main problem has been organizing accommodation close to the venue - as in walking distance. I think Scotch and PLC were happy to help. However, Victorian schools are finishing on the 10th or 11th of December and the Schools Finals is trying to be organized on the 5th and 6th of December. This means that the boarding houses will still be full of regular boarders and will rule out accommodation.

AzureBlue
22-07-2009, 07:41 PM
Some of the places that have been considered so far have been Scotch College, PLC, Melbourne Uni. The main problem has been organizing accommodation close to the venue - as in walking distance. I think Scotch and PLC were happy to help. However, Victorian schools are finishing on the 10th or 11th of December and the Schools Finals is trying to be organized on the 5th and 6th of December. This means that the boarding houses will still be full of regular boarders and will rule out accommodation.
How ridiculous - aren't we finishing on the 4th?
Well, I always seem to finish a week early every term :)
But cool, all of those schools are really really close! :)

AzureBlue
22-07-2009, 07:42 PM
I think that the Atrium (Federation Square) just a stone's throw of my SBS office is ideal! Majestic place to play chess!
Wow fed square is about 10-15mins walk from my school, we're so close to the city :) Why is it called the Atrium now?

Garvinator
22-07-2009, 08:05 PM
Why is it called the Atrium now?
Probably because they are claiming that they are a part of the heart of the city.

AzureBlue
22-07-2009, 08:06 PM
Probably because they are claiming that they are a part of the heart of the city.
Of course it is! It is in the city centre after all but not in the centre of the city centre :lol:

ER
22-07-2009, 11:23 PM
atrium, plural: atria, Latin


Wow fed square is about 10-15mins walk from my school, we're so close to the city :) Why is it called the Atrium now?



In modern architecture, an atrium (plural atria) is a large open space, often several stories high and having a glazed roof and/or large windows ...

also


In the Roman period this was the inner courtyard of a house, left open to the sky, and generally built by the affluent urbam classes. ...

Some beautiful photographs of the Fed Square Atrium during the Final Round of the Victorian Chess Championships (I am not sure which year although I played there) with the magnificent personal touch of Elie Beranjia can be found at the MCC Premises.

ER
22-07-2009, 11:30 PM
Probably because they are claiming that they are a part of the heart of the city.
Heartium??? :P

Desmond
23-07-2009, 11:26 AM
atrium, plural: atria, LatinCol'n Carpenter playing scrabble:
1 ox
2 oxen
3 oxens

AzureBlue
23-07-2009, 05:33 PM
Col'n Carpenter playing scrabble:
1 ox
2 oxen
3 oxens
Lol, I thought oxen, not oxens was the plural of ox. :lol:

AzureBlue
23-07-2009, 05:35 PM
Heartium??? :P
Heartrium? Heartatrium :)

ER
23-07-2009, 06:38 PM
one of those you know! :lol:

AzureBlue
28-07-2009, 05:11 PM
one of those you know! :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
How we love word play!! :)

george
12-08-2009, 11:28 PM
Hi all,

It would be great to have information by the end of August re date,venue and accomodation options for the 2009 Australian Schools Finals.

I will email Charles very late August unless something official surfaces beforehand.

Libby2
16-08-2009, 02:54 PM
Hi all,

It would be great to have information by the end of August re date,venue and accomodation options for the 2009 Australian Schools Finals.

I will email Charles very late August unless something official surfaces beforehand.

Sadly I am yet to be illuminated by the direct asking of questions.

The playoffs finish today for the remaining ACT teams. As part of their obligation in nominating for the playoff series, teams are expected to confirm that the participating players are all fully committed and available to represent their school at the ASTC.

It's a lot to ask of teams given ACTJCL can't tell them when or where. Probably here and probably then doesn't have the same "ring of confidence" about it for new schools and new parents who find themselves involved in the contest.

Garvinator
16-08-2009, 02:58 PM
Sadly I am yet to be illuminated by the direct asking of questions.
So you have directly contacted Ausjcl representatives about the dates for the ASTC?

Is this correct?

CAQ also needs this information for two reasons:

1) So the teams can book accommodation for the ASTC
2) We have another important team event that is held in early December that is held on the 'opposite' week to the ASTC.
So when the ASTC confirms its weekend, we can confirm our AGM and team event date for the other weekend. So we are waiting on two fronts for the same information.

Libby2
16-08-2009, 03:59 PM
So you have directly contacted Ausjcl representatives about the dates for the ASTC?

Is this correct?

CAQ also needs this information for two reasons:

1) So the teams can book accommodation for the ASTC
2) We have another important team event that is held in early December that is held on the 'opposite' week to the ASTC.
So when the ASTC confirms its weekend, we can confirm our AGM and team event date for the other weekend. So we are waiting on two fronts for the same information.

Have you directly contacted Ausjcl representatives about the dates for the ASTC? As you have an official capacity in Qld that would seem to be a very logical course of action. Maybe you'll have more luck because you have that position.

I have asked the question myself, and/or been copied in on others asking the question. I think the important thing - when somebody does know something - is that we bother to share that info so we're not all in the dark or individually pestering with the same set of questions.

And of course "bumping" this thread on occasion while we wait.

george
19-08-2009, 10:13 AM
Hi All,
SAJCL has the Secondary and Primary schools determined as representatives in the Australian Schools Finals we just need to know time venue and accomodation options. I would assume all will be revealed by end of August or soon after as schools/children have many activities which need prioritising in the busy school calender.

PAC secondary is again representing SA with basically the same team as last year so we are hoping for better results this year.

regards

Libby2
24-08-2009, 05:08 PM
:) We were almost falling off the page ...

Lynx
28-08-2009, 06:26 PM
I found this page National Interschool Chess Championships (http://chesskids.com.au/interschool/nationals)
Is it what we were looking for, or this is a different event?
Could anybody explain this to a concerned parent whose kid got to the national school teams final?

AzureBlue
28-08-2009, 06:36 PM
I found this page National Interschool Chess Championships (http://chesskids.com.au/interschool/nationals)
Is it what we were looking for, or this is a different event?
Could anybody explain this to a concerned parent whose kid got to the national school teams final?
It's a different event.

george
28-08-2009, 06:43 PM
Hi Lynx,

The link you mentioned in your post is NOT the event you are looking for. Your linked event is not the AJCL previously ACF acredited national event but one run by a private organisation to further its own agenda.

The information about the acredited event I'm sure will be coming shortly - timely information and better organisation is after all one of the main reasons AJCL was formed and the information should be available shortly - after all AJCL are much better able to provide timely information and the running of Junior tourneys than ACF - thats what the ACF was told anyway so everything will be revealed - any day now !

ChessGuru
29-08-2009, 11:01 AM
Your linked event is not the AJCL previously ACF acredited national event but one run by a private organisation to further its own agenda.

Their own agenda just happening to be the same agenda as that of the ACF. :D

Libby2
29-08-2009, 02:13 PM
Hi Lynx,

The link you mentioned in your post is NOT the event you are looking for. Your linked event is not the AJCL previously ACF acredited national event but one run by a private organisation to further its own agenda.

It's run by a private organisation and run very professionally with excellent distribution of information, a clear schedule with added value activities for participants, and more than meets the needs of participants and their parents. I am happy to encourage players/schools to participate because participating has had a positive impact on the level of interest and development of players at my school.

It is not a competitor to the official event that we continue to wonder about. The official event has an elite structure and a fixed number of participants. State associations can only qualify a single team in each division. The only state having difficulty with the difference appears to be Tasmania - at least until such time as they send teams again to the ASTC, or ensure that those who attend the ChessKids event understand that the ASTC exists (which in past conversations with Tasmanian parents/teachers at the ChessKids event doesn't seem to be the case).

In past years, WA people have expressed to me that their players have gained added value for a long trip by combining the chance to play both the ChessKids event and the ASTC.

I take teams to both events and have been far from the only school to do so. This year I have a player in the ASTC team who has only previously attended the ChessKids event. Their parent has been a little dismayed by the difference in the information available but has expressed to me that we will at least get to go to ChessKids even if the ASTC fails to happen.

I don't know that the ASTC will fail to happen (I'd be very shocked if it did and I think there are well intentioned people out there working hard on it) but the unfortunate thing is that the audience for these two events is getting a quite different impression of the way it is organised.

It isn't difficult for David's business to "further its own agenda" (if that is your position) when the "official" agenda fails to further itself.

(Edit: As someone who has organised and run a past ASTC event, organised a school team for 6 consecutive ASTC events, and attended 3x ChessKids events - with a 4th planned this year - I think I have some semi-valid experience for my point of view.)

Froggy
29-08-2009, 03:34 PM
It's run by a private organisation and run very professionally with excellent distribution of information, a clear schedule with added value activities for participants, and more than meets the needs of participants and their parents.
And most posters here don't seem to have disagree with the above :)


The only state having difficulty with the difference appears to be Tasmania - at least until such time as they send teams again to the ASTC, or ensure that those who attend the ChessKids event understand that the ASTC exists (which in past conversations with Tasmanian parents/teachers at the ChessKids event doesn't seem to be the case).
However the never ending, devious,misleading and in the long run destructive marketing designed to con parents, press and sponsers into believing that the Chess Kids tournament is the official Australian schools championship is what makes so many posters not interested in touching anything ran by Chess Kids with a barge pole.

EVERYTHING that David does is aimed at his hip pocket first and foremost and he takes the attitude that anything he can do to damage or discredit the ACF or CV will help in his quest for cash.

The best thing that could possibly happen for chess in Vic and Australia as a whole would be for the ACF, CV and other state chess organisations to band together with other private chess organisation and wipe Chess Kids from the board :clap:

Libby2
29-08-2009, 04:30 PM
And most posters here don't seem to have disagree with the above :)

However the never ending, devious,misleading and in the long run destructive marketing designed to con parents, press and sponsers into believing that the Chess Kids tournament is the official Australian schools championship is what makes so many posters not interested in touching anything ran by Chess Kids with a barge pole.

EVERYTHING that David does is aimed at his hip pocket first and foremost and he takes the attitude that anything he can do to damage or discredit the ACF or CV will help in his quest for cash.

The best thing that could possibly happen for chess in Vic and Australia as a whole would be for the ACF, CV and other state chess organisations to band together with other private chess organisation and wipe Chess Kids from the board :clap:

Wiping them from the board does not help me, the other state organisers, and/or parents on this thread who are only here because we can't find out what's happening with the ASTC this year.

If chess in Vic and Australia as a whole, the ACF, CV and other state chess organisations were capable of banding together and organising anything we would all be very impressed. It makes life easier to have some other entity to point the finger at and not have to examine your own capacity to market, promote and develop quality events so that the bogeyman can't come and steal it all away. In WA & Tasmania I don't think they could afford to wipe ChessKids off the map - they have relied on Chesskids to manage their interschool events full stop.

David did poke his nose into the ACT, came along to some of our interschool activities etc and toddled away again. None of us died as a result - and ACTJCL runs as one of few jurisdictions managing interschool chess as a volunteer-run enterprise - 16 school events + playoffs each year.

Kevin Bonham
29-08-2009, 05:28 PM
The only state having difficulty with the difference appears to be Tasmania - at least until such time as they send teams again to the ASTC, or ensure that those who attend the ChessKids event understand that the ASTC exists (which in past conversations with Tasmanian parents/teachers at the ChessKids event doesn't seem to be the case).

I've been through this before. Chesskids basically have a monopoly on interschool here and this has been the case for about five years. Once CK set up this competition in a state that prior to then had had no interschool since about 2000, it has been extremely successful. There would be no point in the TCA setting up a rival contest to the CK one because it would be a joke; we do not have the resources in terms of staff and time available to run one on top of all the individual comps and training weekends and so on that we already run.

All we can do is recognise that the outright winners of the CK events (not the second and third placegetters, who also go to the CK nationals) have proven themselves fit to represent the state and on that basis encourage them to enter the ASTC if we think they might want to compete in both events. But it's really very difficult because they have already qualified for one lot of national finals, and they know the product for the series they are qualifying for and have been on the promotional trail to that final, and who wants to compete in two sets of national finals typically within a week or two of each other and given the costs of doing so from Tasmania? Some of the winning schools in recent years have seriously considered doing so but ended up deciding it was too hard.

Another issue is competitiveness. A few Tasmanian teams that went to the ASTC about ten years ago were slaughtered to a degree that was discouraging rather than useful. One team in particular reported that not only were their results very bad, but they found there was a lack of supportiveness for them as an inexperienced team and the experience was unenjoyable. I don't recall exactly what year it is or who was in charge of the ASTC that year offhand, but this school was so scarred by this experience that now when they qualify for the CK nationals they will not go, even though the CK nationals are very different in nature and they would be competitive there because of the larger and weaker field.

On that basis we are really careful about encouraging schools to go for the ASTC unless we are confident that they will perform competitively.

A final issue is time. I run most of the interschools for CK and am paid to do so. If I was not paid to do so, I wouldn't be able to do it to anything like the same level. I'd love to spend half an hour at each interschool yakking to all available parents and teachers about opportunities to participate in the ASTC but it's just not possible; at most of the big qualifiers I'm much too flat-out running things. At the recent Launceston qualifier I could count the amount of spare time I had from the arrival of the first child to the departure of the last in seconds. Literally.

So the question about promoting the ASTC to schools in Tasmania and letting them know well in advance that they can qualify for the ASTC as well if they win their CK division in the state, is who is going to do it and how? Any suggestions would be welcome!

Garvinator
29-08-2009, 05:42 PM
So the question about promoting the ASTC to schools in Tasmania and letting them know well in advance that they can qualify for the ASTC as well if they win their CK division in the state, is who is going to do it and how? Any suggestions would be welcome!
And this promotion of the ASTC would be difficult when it is not known exactly where it is going to be held and on what dates.

Libby2
29-08-2009, 05:55 PM
I've been through this before. Chesskids basically have a monopoly on interschool here and this has been the case for about five years. Once CK set up this competition in a state that prior to then had had no interschool since about 2000, it has been extremely successful. There would be no point in the TCA setting up a rival contest to the CK one because it would be a joke; we do not have the resources in terms of staff and time available to run one on top of all the individual comps and training weekends and so on that we already run.

I wouldn't suggest TCA run a another event. Chesskids is providing a service in Tasmania that has given you an interschool competition - I think that's great.

But I don't agree with much else. ACT teams and often WA & SA have had teams in the various ASTC divisions who have been way outclassed in that division. Often ACT teams have had a B1 rated below the B4 of the NSW & VIC teams, and supported with unrated or lowly rated lower boards. When Hawker Primary won the Open Primary in 2007 (the only ACT team to have done so) all players were rated under 1000.

A number of teams compete at both Chesskids & ASTC, As I said, the WA teams (with an even greater travel issue than Tasmania) have seen great value in competing in two events. This year (if we get some confirmation at some stage) the two events may even be in the same city within a week of each other - that would present the very best possible opportunity should a state association value and actively promote the ASTC itself.

What will make Tassie teams ready? We have had our fair share of coming last. ACT teams have performed markedly better since we added a playoff layer to our events. Interschool chess is run broadly in the ACT with short time controls. A team become ACT champions with 15 min chess. That team can be challenged by up to 3 others to a playoff series conducted over a single weekend under the ASTC format. Challengers must have placed in the top 6 in the Final, and must have at least 2 players with "normal" ratings (ie challengers must be high achieving teams with players who have some expectation of performing better under long time controls). Having competed in that process players understand better what is expected at the ASTC.

Each year we have a mix of representative teams and we are not always as competitive as we hope in every division, but players and schools keep coming back - even those who have placed at or near the bottom.

How will you ever know until teams attend? How will they ever attend without good PR?

And I guess that's my point about the current lack of info on the ASTC. If Tassie teams are even thinking about coming to the ASTC in 2009 (as well as, or instead of, Chesskids) they have what information available to them to make that decision?

Kevin Bonham
29-08-2009, 07:12 PM
And this promotion of the ASTC would be difficult when it is not known exactly where it is going to be held and on what dates.

Yes, although that is a specific problem this year that has not always been a problem in previous years.


Challengers must have placed in the top 6 in the Final, and must have at least 2 players with "normal" ratings (ie challengers must be high achieving teams with players who have some expectation of performing better under long time controls). Having competed in that process players understand better what is expected at the ASTC.

This is an excellent idea (one which we wouldn't have the ability to organise, mainly because of the way chess talent in the state is dispersed between population centres) but it's not uncommon for our primary sections to be won by teams with either one or zero rated players. Or another common situation is to have a couple of rated players backed up by average players who would most likely score zero at the ASTC but are able to score, say, 5/9 at a state final. There are a lot of good juniors here but they are very scattered around between different schools in different areas.

What is starting to happen is that the strong players who started as primary-schoolers or young high-schoolers are pooling in the local matric colleges so we may soon get to a stage where the high-school winners are teams consisting largely of rated players that we need to strongly encourage to compete in both events.

ChessGuru
29-08-2009, 08:50 PM
Kevin, take a look at my Blog Post (http://cordover.com.au/2009/08/chess-victoria-school-teams/) about CV interschool.

Why not start something like this -- or why not ask CK to start something like this for the TCA? There is nothing that says the TCA must run the event directly.... a partnership between clubs and business might be much more effective. Think resources to start and promote the event...

After all, all QLD and CV events are run by a business and nobody has a problem with that...

aransandraseg
29-08-2009, 08:58 PM
Sydney grammar will undoubtedly win. Or NSB/ Knox.
(Shut up Jerry. I know what your going to say.)

Kevin Bonham
29-08-2009, 09:57 PM
Kevin, take a look at my Blog Post (http://cordover.com.au/2009/08/chess-victoria-school-teams/) about CV interschool.

Why not start something like this -- or why not ask CK to start something like this for the TCA? There is nothing that says the TCA must run the event directly.... a partnership between clubs and business might be much more effective. Think resources to start and promote the event...

Interesting - though I think our problem here is not lack of a specific qualifying event, but the challenge of getting the best teams interested in playing in both events and inclined to do so. It may be that a separate event perhaps hosted through junior clubs (with another state final, difficult as it is to get people to travel around the state repeatedly) is an effective way of doing that but I'm not sure.

Anyway I will raise the issue (again) of what (if anything) we can do to improve interest in, and inclination to participate in, the ASTC at the next TCA meeting.

Mischa
29-08-2009, 10:47 PM
I have been repeatedly asked at our school as to what is going on (and I am a Mexican with no kid involved)
When I suggested they contact K Lyall they get a bit nasty...they say they have tried repeatedly but just get told to refer to the website...
I have no answer for them

Libby2
30-08-2009, 10:51 AM
I have been repeatedly asked at our school as to what is going on (and I am a Mexican with no kid involved)
When I suggested they contact K Lyall they get a bit nasty...they say they have tried repeatedly but just get told to refer to the website...
I have no answer for them

To which website?

Actually I have no particular problem with Kerry. If she runs the event I'm sure it will be capably done with as much or as little support as she can get in Victoria.

I have a problem with not even knowing if bids have effectively been tendered and a particular state or organisation been awarded the event. If (now we are near enough to September) that hasn't even happened I'd have hoped all states and territories would have been approached and told this. If (by September) we are still "hoping" to hold it in Melbourne and "hoping" these are the dates, it may well be time to "hope" in a few other quarters. And to implement formal, transparent processes rather than stagger along with the same old "hopeful" approach to allocating events.

Libby2
30-08-2009, 11:31 AM
Anyway I will raise the issue (again) of what (if anything) we can do to improve interest in, and inclination to participate in, the ASTC at the next TCA meeting.

Why not host the event in 2011? It gives your players a home event and the best possible conditions under which to reintroduce participation?

And as part of the ACF, you will understand how easy it is to encourage the hosting of an event that comes without a revenue stream ;)

Sarcasm aside, this event is not a large impost on an organisation if a suitable venue can be sourced inexpensively or free. You have a fixed number of participants so you know the size of the space required. Perhaps a participating school has a large enough hall available?

A school or other venue should preferably be in a large city or transport hub to make it easier to transport children in-and-out for this 2-day event. Accommodation on-site is helpful but if you are in a large-ish city with plenty of options nearby, and good public transport, it really doesn't matter.

Your costs, outside of the venue, are in trophies and catering for a meal on one night. The trophies are a significant expense (not adequately met by past ACF contributions) because you have 4 divisions, 3 placegetters in each division, and at least 4 players in each placegetting team - That's a lot of trophies. Of course you can go for really cheap options but you do hope to send children home with something that is suggestive of a significant event & achievement.

The meal is optional. Don't provide it if you can't. Or stick to Adelaide's sausage sizzle idea. At the 2007 Aus Jnr Lightning we provided pizza and drinks afterwards. We had all of this from donations. Coles and IGA gave us vouchers that we spent on drinks, and multiple Dominos stores (part of the same Dominos group or cluster) each provided as many pizzas as they were individually willing to donate.

ACTJCL provides a small grant to each of our ASTC reps when they travel. I was reading (here or on the dark side) some speculation about how JCL states make truckloads of money and splash heaps on rep teams/players. ACTJCL charges $8 per player for interschool chess and that covers all levels (one fee includes your zone and, if applicable, playoffs and finals). Everyone gets a ribbon and trophies go to placegetters in zones & finals. At the other end, winning teams receive $300 or $400 per team (I forget which and I'm not a committee member anymore) to assist with costs. When the ACT hosts the event, that $1200 or $1600 is not spent as the teams don't travel and it's available to support the costs of the ASTC.

From my 2006/2007 experience, you need a modest level of cash sponsorship to comfortably host this event and can benefit enormously with effective in-kind sponsorships.

Just a thought ...

Vlad
30-08-2009, 12:42 PM
Actually I have no particular problem with Kerry. If she runs the event I'm sure it will be capably done with as much or as little support as she can get in Victoria.


I have heard a rumour that Kerry resigned. Maybe that is the reason why there is no information about this event. Maybe there is nobody to run it?

Bill Gletsos
30-08-2009, 01:14 PM
I have heard a rumour that Kerry resigned.Resigned from what, the AusJCL or organising the ASTC?

Vlad
30-08-2009, 01:56 PM
Resigned from what, the AusJCL or organising the ASTC?

From Chess Victoria...

george
30-08-2009, 01:58 PM
I tend not to listen to rumours so will email the president AUSjcl to see what exactly is going on. When I last emailed him I was told what we already knew on this chatroom so at that stage there was nothing to add.

But certainly Libby's notion of calling for other interested bids from Vic or elsewhere should be pursued if Kerry Lyall has either resigned from whatever or unable to conclude arrangments for the event. If Kerry is having problems with arrangments perhaps others should be proactive in offering her assistance - if I was in Victoria I would be offering assistance.

Libby2
30-08-2009, 02:08 PM
From Chess Victoria...

From my understanding (not always 100% informed) the event was never awarded to Chess Victoria itself.

Bill Gletsos
30-08-2009, 02:15 PM
From my understanding (not always 100% informed) the event was never awarded to Chess Victoria itself.That is my understanding as well.

Bill Gletsos
30-08-2009, 02:16 PM
From Chess Victoria...My understanding is that she did not resign, she just did not re-stand as secretary at their last AGM.

Mischa
30-08-2009, 04:55 PM
This is a shame...she is a brilliant organiser and deserves support

Denis_Jessop
30-08-2009, 06:05 PM
From my understanding (not always 100% informed) the event was never awarded to Chess Victoria itself.


Correct. Kerry Lyall is seeking a venue in her capacity as an AusJCL official. There is no suggestion on the most recent information I have (some weeks ago) that Kerry would not continue to be involved. She did not stand for CV Secretary at their last AGM earlier this year but that has no relevance for the Schools event. The main problem has, first, been getting a venue. They have now also run into insurance questions with the owners of the probable venue. Last time I had contact from Charles Z these were being addressed. I don't have any official role in this but am the ACF's liaison officer with the AusJCL. If I receive any information that I can pass on, I shall do so.

DJ

Ninja
30-08-2009, 06:46 PM
I don't have any official role in this but am the ACF's liaison officer with the AusJCL. If I receive any information that I can pass on, I shall do so.DJ

Perhaps as the ACF's liaison officer with the AusJCL it is about time to suggest that some assistance is given with organising this event.

It would seem that ACF has totally wiped it hands of this one, CV want nothing to do with it as it was not awarded to them and hence they have no official involvement and AusJCL, in their first year of running junior events seem to be struggling ??

Makes Aus chess official organisations (ACF,CV and AusJCL) look like a bit of a joke. Sounds like the whole organisation of it has been handed off to one person with absolutely no support from state or national bodies to the point where they cannot even sort out who covers the insurance:wall:

Makes one wonder if the AusJCL management format was very well thought out :hmm:

ER
30-08-2009, 07:57 PM
... Makes Aus chess official organisations (ACF,CV ...) look like a bit of a joke. (...)
I tried hard but still can't understand how can one blame the above mentioned organisations for the (so far) failure to come up with something concrete with this event!
Is it ACF's responsibility to organise the event?
Has CV been awarded its organisation?
Am I missing something here?

Bill Gletsos
30-08-2009, 09:12 PM
I tried hard but still can't understand how can one blame the above mentioned organisations for the (so far) failure to come up with something concrete with this event!
Is it ACF's responsibility to organise the event?
Has CV been awarded its organisation?
Am I missing something here?No you are not.

Denis_Jessop
30-08-2009, 09:14 PM
No you are not.

This thread is now over thanks to this

http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=10653

DJ

Bill Gletsos
30-08-2009, 09:14 PM
For all those looking for details of the 2009 ASTC check out the thread here (http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=10653).

Denis_Jessop
30-08-2009, 09:34 PM
Perhaps as the ACF's liaison officer with the AusJCL it is about time to suggest that some assistance is given with organising this event.

It would seem that ACF has totally wiped it hands of this one, CV want nothing to do with it as it was not awarded to them and hence they have no official involvement and AusJCL, in their first year of running junior events seem to be struggling ??

Makes Aus chess official organisations (ACF,CV and AusJCL) look like a bit of a joke. Sounds like the whole organisation of it has been handed off to one person with absolutely no support from state or national bodies to the point where they cannot even sort out who covers the insurance:wall:

Makes one wonder if the AusJCL management format was very well thought out :hmm:

A totally negative reaction now shown to be as misconceived as it looks on paper. One thing to do before making this kind of comment is to think. If you know nothing about the matter, as is apparent, then don't bother to say anything.

DJ